muscle mass increase or decrease?

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dalai47
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Re: muscle mass increase or decrease?

Postby dalai47 » Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:36 pm

Xplora wrote:He was talking a cake and biscuits diet, not muesli ;) Anyone can do the vegan thing, but cake and desserts is not vegan, it's malnutrition. :lol:
I still can't fathom how zill could consider a cake and biscuit only diet would be healthy???

Please take CKinnards offer up zill! You definitely need some guidance if you seriously consider this may be okay...

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Re: muscle mass increase or decrease?

Postby Xplora » Fri Sep 19, 2014 2:25 pm

I think zill is just spitballing ideas, rather than seriously considering doing it. Some people test all options before settling on one, others prefer to settle more quickly.

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Re: muscle mass increase or decrease?

Postby mikesbytes » Fri Sep 19, 2014 2:58 pm

zill wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:Don't skip lunch, protein lasts around 4 hours
But museli is mostly carbs and had about 4000kj of them.
So making another poor choice is the solution to a previous poor choice?
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: muscle mass increase or decrease?

Postby zill » Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:13 pm

dalai47 wrote:
Xplora wrote:He was talking a cake and biscuits diet, not muesli ;) Anyone can do the vegan thing, but cake and desserts is not vegan, it's malnutrition. :lol:
I still can't fathom how zill could consider a cake and biscuit only diet would be healthy???

Please take CKinnards offer up zill! You definitely need some guidance if you seriously consider this may be okay...
I wasn't really serious about it, just some wishful thinking.

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Re: muscle mass increase or decrease?

Postby zill » Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:15 pm

I'm starting to calorie count (with the help of CKinnard) and it's going really great. Can't see myself binge eating now since I am aware how much calories are in the desserts!

The only thing I am not looking forward to is being hungry at night (due to a calorie deficit for weight loss).

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Re: muscle mass increase or decrease?

Postby casual_cyclist » Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:08 pm

kb wrote:Don't forget to sleep. Not only is it good for you but it's pretty hard to eat while sleeping :-)
http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health ... 7068759751" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: muscle mass increase or decrease?

Postby sogood » Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:03 pm

Over months you wouldn't see any "obvious" change in muscle mass at all. Probably an increase in muscle density in the legs, but that's it...
Huh? No change in mass but an increase in density? Shrunken muscles after months of bike training? There's some serious voodoo in this thread.
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Re: muscle mass increase or decrease?

Postby g-boaf » Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:55 pm

zill wrote:I'm starting to calorie count (with the help of CKinnard) and it's going really great. Can't see myself binge eating now since I am aware how much calories are in the desserts!

The only thing I am not looking forward to is being hungry at night (due to a calorie deficit for weight loss).
My way of getting around this issue is to eat my normal meals, but ride more. I used to do quite consistent 350-450km per week - with some good efforts in there. With those kms there was no choice but for the weight to go down. I wasn't a saint with what I was eating back then either. If I'd been more careful - I probably would have dropped more kgs. However - I wasn't exactly binge eating, but I still wasn't eating that healthy.

Just stick at it, do what you can and don't go to extremes - extremes are what can set you up to yo-yo back and forth. If you are riding a lot and fast, you stil have to fuel up or you'll go flat, and that isn't a nice feeling.

If you are trying to train hard and drop kgs at the same time, do it carefully. Small steps.
Last edited by g-boaf on Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: muscle mass increase or decrease?

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:08 pm

I think its one of those terms that used to assure females that if they pick up a set of pink dumbbells that they won't end up looking like the Governor of California.

And it can't be achieved without the aid of a spotter http://www.livestrong.com/article/11399 ... e-density/
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: muscle mass increase or decrease?

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:10 pm

OK jokes aside, it could be referring to mitochondria and capillary density
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: muscle mass increase or decrease?

Postby sogood » Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:13 pm

If there's no change in muscle mass over months, then there's been no real training.
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Re: muscle mass increase or decrease?

Postby Xplora » Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:51 pm

sogood wrote:If there's no change in muscle mass over months, then there's been no real training.
zill's query was specifically "will I become a meataxe with epic legz if I keep riding 300kms, training training training?" and the answer is no, you will not experience growth in the size of your legs.

The change in body mass is less fat, more lean muscle, without hypertrophic growth - he won't get substantially more size in leg muscle, but it will become stronger and more dense, to a point.

He's a long way from maxing out this direction. You don't get much bigger legs from riding a lot. You lose fat. It's all good, but the question was more nuanced than that.

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Re: muscle mass increase or decrease?

Postby CKinnard » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:38 am

doing big distances can lead to an increase in intramuscular fat and glycogen (and associated water) storage....though 'increase' obviously depends on pre long distance status. these two energy substrate adaptations represent efficiency adaptations in using leg muscles for endurance activities.

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Re: muscle mass increase or decrease?

Postby sogood » Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:07 am

Xplora wrote:zill's query was specifically "will I become a meataxe with epic legz if I keep riding 300kms, training training training?" and the answer is no, you will not experience growth in the size of your legs.
Logic failure!

Growth and changes in the size of legs aren't likely to go to the extremes, but changes they will if there's significant volume of riding. That's just simple adaptation.
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Re: muscle mass increase or decrease?

Postby g-boaf » Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:35 am

sogood wrote:
Xplora wrote:zill's query was specifically "will I become a meataxe with epic legz if I keep riding 300kms, training training training?" and the answer is no, you will not experience growth in the size of your legs.
Logic failure!

Growth and changes in the size of legs aren't likely to go to the extremes, but changes they will if there's significant volume of riding. That's just simple adaptation.

The guys I know who ride large amounts of distance aren't built massively - they are all really lean, and I mean extremely lean. Not huge leg muscles, extreme thin arms, the typical GC rider build.

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Re: muscle mass increase or decrease?

Postby sogood » Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:58 am

g-boaf wrote:The guys I know who ride large amounts of distance aren't built massively - they are all really lean, and I mean extremely lean. Not huge leg muscles, extreme thin arms, the typical GC rider build.
Agree, like Andy Schleck and the like. But there's still changes in the leg muscle definition and bulk. No Chris Hoy but will be greater than someone who is sedentary. There are muscle adaptations specific to cycling and that's unavoidable for anyone who does any significant volume, hence my qualification on "significant volume" which is the case for our OP.
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Re: muscle mass increase or decrease?

Postby casual_cyclist » Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:48 pm

sogood wrote:
Over months you wouldn't see any "obvious" change in muscle mass at all. Probably an increase in muscle density in the legs, but that's it...
Huh? No change in mass but an increase in density? Shrunken muscles after months of bike training? There's some serious voodoo in this thread.
It's called bro' science.
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Re: muscle mass increase or decrease?

Postby sogood » Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:47 pm

casual_cyclist wrote:It's called bro' science.
"Broscience" is actually a word in urban dictionary. I'm learning. :mrgreen:
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Re: muscle mass increase or decrease?

Postby Aussiebullet » Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:26 am

Whilst I agree with sogood over many many years there will be slight increase in muscle mass from being sedentary to riding hundreds of kms/wk,
but as someone like myself who was not sedentary and came from a competitive powerlifting backround as well as years of weights and bodybuilding before that, to nearly a decade now of no weights and hundreds of kms/wk of riding my legs and muscle mass have shrunk by about a third of their size, and yes I do have the stretch marks to show for it.

So Zill may or may not notice over the next few years a slight increase in leg diameter but is usually offset by a reduction in body fat percentage so if that person had a fairly high bf% in their legs then they are still likely to gain a very slight increase in mass over the next few years but their legs would appear to have shrunk and their weight may increase or decrease with years of endurance riding depending on where the individual is starting from.
Bottom line a definite increase in capillary/mitochondria density and maybe/maybe not increase/decrease in weight and/or leg diameter.

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Re: muscle mass increase or decrease?

Postby zill » Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:11 am

Aussiebullet wrote:Whilst I agree with sogood over many many years there will be slight increase in muscle mass from being sedentary to riding hundreds of kms/wk,
but as someone like myself who was not sedentary and came from a competitive powerlifting backround as well as years of weights and bodybuilding before that, to nearly a decade now of no weights and hundreds of kms/wk of riding my legs and muscle mass have shrunk by about a third of their size, and yes I do have the stretch marks to show for it.

So Zill may or may not notice over the next few years a slight increase in leg diameter but is usually offset by a reduction in body fat percentage so if that person had a fairly high bf% in their legs then they are still likely to gain a very slight increase in mass over the next few years but their legs would appear to have shrunk and their weight may increase or decrease with years of endurance riding depending on where the individual is starting from.
Bottom line a definite increase in capillary/mitochondria density and maybe/maybe not increase/decrease in weight and/or leg diameter.
That seems by and large accurate. I guess I will test this theory in 2 months time when I will do a DXA scan again (a total of 6 months before my last DXA scan).

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