Diet:Meat or vege? - Swings and roundabouts?

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Re: Diet:Meat or vege? - Swings and roundabouts?

Postby bigfriendlyvegan » Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:58 am

march83 wrote:hey BFV, tell me about b12. what do you do to stay on top of it? is it a real issue?
Typically fortified foods, but naturally from yeasts, dirty vegetables, and so on (i.e. the same place herbivores get it from, then meat eaters get it from them). I've never had an issue with it and I have been tested. My wife does have an issue, but it's from malabsorption, not dietary lack.

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Re: Diet:Meat or vege? - Swings and roundabouts?

Postby CXCommuter » Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:59 am

bigfriendlyvegan wrote:I've said this before, and I'll repeat it here: vegetarians are the cyclists of the food world. We're all a bunch of tofu eating weirdos.
Tofu is awesome (Mapo Tofu- sorry it has meat, Agedashi Tofu etc).
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Re: Diet:Meat or vege? - Swings and roundabouts?

Postby bigfriendlyvegan » Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:09 pm

silentC wrote:
vegetarians are the cyclists of the food world
Which means if you're a vegetarian cyclist, you are the weirdest of the weird :)
Yep, that's me.

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Re: Diet:Meat or vege? - Swings and roundabouts?

Postby CXCommuter » Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:17 pm

bigfriendlyvegan wrote:
silentC wrote:
vegetarians are the cyclists of the food world
Which means if you're a vegetarian cyclist, you are the weirdest of the weird :)
Yep, that's me.
BFV- I am jealous :mrgreen:
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Re: Diet:Meat or vege? - Swings and roundabouts?

Postby Nobody » Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:41 pm

silentC wrote:I have tried a no-meat diet for a couple of weeks but I just couldn't adapt to it. I was hungry all the time and lacking in energy. I have no doubt that it was because of what we were eating but it's all too hard.
You didn't do it for long enough to get used to it (you need at least 3 weeks) and it reads like you weren't eating enough volume and/or the higher carb stuff like oats, potatoes, corn, wholemeal pasta and rice. Salads and non-starch vegies don't have much in the way of carbs.

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Re: Diet:Meat or vege? - Swings and roundabouts?

Postby Nobody » Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:45 pm

CXCommuter wrote:
bigfriendlyvegan wrote:I've said this before, and I'll repeat it here: vegetarians are the cyclists of the food world. We're all a bunch of tofu eating weirdos.
Tofu is awesome (Mapo Tofu- sorry it has meat, Agedashi Tofu etc).
Speak for yourselves! I'm a non tofu eating weirdo vegan cyclist, that you very much. :P

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Re: Diet:Meat or vege? - Swings and roundabouts?

Postby silentC » Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:53 pm

Nobody wrote:You didn't do it for long enough to get used to it (you need at least 3 weeks) and it reads like you weren't eating enough volume and/or the higher carb stuff like oats,
potatoes, corn, wholemeal pasta and rice. Salads and non-starch vegies don't have much in the way of carbs.
It was nearly 10 years ago so can't recall exactly what we ate. It was one of those liver-cleansing diets. Probably not enough volume. Salads don't interest me at all. Although I don't mind a good Caesar salad, preferably with hard boiled eggs and roast chicken :D
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Re: Diet:Meat or vege? - Swings and roundabouts?

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:30 pm

silentC wrote:
Nobody wrote:You didn't do it for long enough to get used to it (you need at least 3 weeks) and it reads like you weren't eating enough volume and/or the higher carb stuff like oats,
potatoes, corn, wholemeal pasta and rice. Salads and non-starch vegies don't have much in the way of carbs.
It was nearly 10 years ago so can't recall exactly what we ate. It was one of those liver-cleansing diets. Probably not enough volume. Salads don't interest me at all. Although I don't mind a good Caesar salad, preferably with hard boiled eggs and roast chicken :D
Yeah, I remember the very first time I had heard of liver cleaningsing diet. It was a little before it btook off and was everywhere.

The following week she rubbed magnetic balls across my shoulder to demonstrate it's efficacy.

The really scary bit was that she was a nurse in training.

It's really hard for doctors to disprove the efficiacy of a treatment for a malady that does not exist. :?
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Re: Diet:Meat or vege? - Swings and roundabouts?

Postby Eleri » Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:51 pm

bigfriendlyvegan wrote:
silentC wrote:
vegetarians are the cyclists of the food world
Which means if you're a vegetarian cyclist, you are the weirdest of the weird :)
Yep, that's me.
Secretly a hipster, aren't you? Come over and play. Artisan vegetarians us :-)

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Re: Diet:Meat or vege? - Swings and roundabouts?

Postby toolonglegs » Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:51 pm

Tofu ... that's that stuff you have to fry and salt to death to get any taste at all isn't it?. Not really my thing... maybe I will have a soya burger once in a while.
I don't think I look like much of a vegan fringe dweller ... but maybe I do.
Now bananas :wink: I can get through a few off them :lol:

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Re: Diet:Meat or vege? - Swings and roundabouts?

Postby bigfriendlyvegan » Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:58 pm

Eleri wrote: Secretly a hipster, aren't you? Come over and play. Artisan vegetarians us :-)
I'm coming over right now.

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Re: Diet:Meat or vege? - Swings and roundabouts?

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:20 pm

Should I bother reading the article?
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Diet:Meat or vege? - Swings and roundabouts?

Postby bigfriendlyvegan » Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:34 pm

Nope. Really not worth it. Bad science. Bad reporting.

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Re: Diet:Meat or vege? - Swings and roundabouts?

Postby m@ » Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:09 am

Clickbait. Don't give 'em the satisfaction!
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe

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Re: Diet:Meat or vege? - Swings and roundabouts?

Postby CKinnard » Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:47 pm

Regarding B12 deficiency, it can take 20 years to deplete reserves after stopping animal produce intake.
Deficiency is more widespread than previously thought, more so in vegans, then vegos, then omnivores.
At least 50% of omnivores are estimated to be deficient.
It is also widespread in those over 50 as absorption gets less efficient with age.
Standard blood assays are unreliable for determining deficiency.

Essentially, everyone is advised to take non dietary supplements.

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Re: Diet:Meat or vege? - Swings and roundabouts?

Postby Nobody » Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:31 pm

CKinnard wrote:Regarding B12 deficiency, it can take 20 years to deplete reserves after stopping animal produce intake.
Stores of vitamin B12 in the body can last around two to four years without being replenished, so it can take a long time for any problems to develop after a dietary change.
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Anaemia-vi ... auses.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I take about 2mg a week. I've been tested recently and have a normal level. Vegan for over a year.

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Re: Diet:Meat or vege? - Swings and roundabouts?

Postby Tim » Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:39 pm

bigfriendlyvegan wrote:
march83 wrote:hey BFV, tell me about b12. what do you do to stay on top of it? is it a real issue?
Typically fortified foods, but naturally from yeasts, dirty vegetables, and so on (i.e. the same place herbivores get it from, then meat eaters get it from them). I've never had an issue with it and I have been tested. My wife does have an issue, but it's from malabsorption, not dietary lack.
This interests me BFV.
You mention unwashed veggies as a B12 source. I wash store bought vegetables to (hopefully) remove herbicide and pesticide residues but a large part of our vegetable intake comes from our own garden. Are my own organically grown veggies likely to carry B12? I wash my own produce, just out of habit, to remove any soil or insect detritus. Maybe I shouldn't?
What are these fortified foods you speak of?
I have toyed with the idea of a veggo diet at times.

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Re: Diet:Meat or vege? - Swings and roundabouts?

Postby bigfriendlyvegan » Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:01 pm

Tim wrote: This interests me BFV.
You mention unwashed veggies as a B12 source. I wash store bought vegetables to (hopefully) remove herbicide and pesticide residues but a large part of our vegetable intake comes from our own garden. Are my own organically grown veggies likely to carry B12? I wash my own produce, just out of habit, to remove any soil or insect detritus. Maybe I shouldn't?
What are these fortified foods you speak of?
I have toyed with the idea of a veggo diet at times.
Fortified foods such as soy milk, bread, etc. Not all of them contain B12, but some of them do. You don't need much if your absorption if good. I'm a 20 year vegan now and my levels are fine (as of last week). There are quite a few fermented products that contain B12 as well (since bacteria does the fermentation)

Washing your organic grown veggies is fine, but don't scrub the crap out of them. B12 is produced by bacteria, so dirt is a good thing, but you don't want crap on your food. You're probably getting plenty from the veggies that you have.

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Re: Diet:Meat or vege? - Swings and roundabouts?

Postby Nobody » Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:38 am

Below is the results of a British study to suggest most vegans don't get enough B12 there.
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/vegan-epidemic/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Diet:Meat or vege? - Swings and roundabouts?

Postby Kangzosa » Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:44 am

A lot of meat eaters don't get enough b12 too. In fact most people who have a b12 problem eat meat, eggs cheese milk.

It's somehow been made into a vegan only problem. It isn't.

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Re: Diet:Meat or vege? - Swings and roundabouts?

Postby mikesbytes » Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:43 am

Not really seeing what the issue is. If one's dietary choice results in a shortfall of a particular vitamin then a vitamin supplement will solve that.

My breakfast this morning contained more green leafy vegetable than 99% of the population's breakie :) It also contained more saturated fat than 85% of the population's breakie :( Hey I'm not perfect but I'm doing better than most
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Diet:Meat or vege? - Swings and roundabouts?

Postby durianrider » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:27 pm

I did a response to that 'news' article via a youtube video. I won't link it here though cos its got too much course language.

The very fact people cry when their pet dies but then go and put some dead animal in their sandwich for lunch is enough to drive any conscious person over the edge who has to bear the brunt of their continual 'but humans are designed to eat dead animals??"

When you go vegan, you basically have every Homer Simpson come out of the woodwork and all of a sudden they are a nutrition expert and anthropologist in 2 minutes.
Vegan since 2001.

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Re: Diet:Meat or vege? - Swings and roundabouts?

Postby bigfriendlyvegan » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:49 pm

durianrider wrote:When you go vegan, you basically have every Homer Simpson come out of the woodwork and all of a sudden they are a nutrition expert and anthropologist in 2 minutes.
I've said before that cyclists are the vegans of the transport world. Similarly, vegans are the cyclists of the dietary world.

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Re: Diet:Meat or vege? - Swings and roundabouts?

Postby CKinnard » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:55 pm

When you go vegan, the Homers only come out if you tell everyone you're vegan.

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Re: Diet:Meat or vege? - Swings and roundabouts?

Postby Mulger bill » Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:06 pm

Freelee has left? :shock:

Bet that first bacon sarnie tasted amazing...
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