energy expenditure: sleeping vs awake but resting?

[zill]

well don't let me or anyone else put you off being curious Zill. I can actually see the logic in your thought processes and questions...and think it is great that you are aspiring towards healthier living and that cycling is your main motivator. It has been mine too at difficult times through life.

I am just giving you a nudge towards a more rewarding perspective - don't use cycling or food as an obsession to avoid other areas of life that are very very important components of the pursuit of health, wealth,and happiness.

If you've never read or listened to top motivational speakers, Stephen Covey is a good place to start.

http://youtu.be/ACukmJ_5HSo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://youtu.be/eOpKziGrxSE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's a really great video by Stephen! I'm just starting to understand and experience these things now.

Another curious question I have is say a person does a one hour time trial in 10 degrees Celsius and then at 30 degrees Celsius. Both rides exactly the same except for the temperature. Which ride would this person have burned more calories?

What about the same scenario except at 5 degrees Celsius versus 35 degrees Celsius?

Now how about the same person sitting at rest in a 10 degree Celsius room for an hour and then sitting in a 30 degrees Celsius room for an hour. During which sit would he have burned more calories?

My guess is that the person would have burned more calories doing the TT in the hotter temperatures but burned more calories sitting in the cooler room at rest. Is that correct and why?

[casual_cyclist]

Other than B12 which all vegans should be supplementing for, unless they know their levels are tested good, what other factors should we be looking out for?

The best article I have seen on supplementation for Vegans and Vegetarians is by Dr. Joel Fuhrman and Deana M. Ferreri called Fueling the Vegetarian (Vegan) Athlete.
https://www.drfuhrman.com/library/vegan_athlete.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There was actually more than I expected, including zinc, iodine, DHA, vitamin D and taurine.

[CKinnard]

Other than B12 which all vegans should be supplementing for, unless they know their levels are tested good, what other factors should we be looking out for?

The Seventh Day Adventist guide to plant based eating was for years :
B12, Iodine , Omega 3, Vit D, Iron, Calcium, Zinc


More recently, a peer reviewed supplement to the Medical Journal of Australia gave advice on vegetarian nutrition.
https://www.mja.com.au/open/2012/1/2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
specifically
https://www.mja.com.au/open/2012/1/2/me ... arian-diet" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
where
B12, Vit D, Omega 3, Zinc, and Iron require meal planning or supplementation.

[Nobody]

Other than B12 which all vegans should be supplementing for, unless they know their levels are tested good, what other factors should we be looking out for?

The best article I have seen on supplementation for Vegans and Vegetarians is by Dr. Joel Fuhrman and Deana M. Ferreri called Fueling the Vegetarian (Vegan) Athlete.
https://www.drfuhrman.com/library/vegan_athlete.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There was actually more than I expected, including zinc, iodine, DHA, vitamin D and taurine.

Thanks for posting this CC.

There appears to be some controversy surrounding Dr Fuhrman and his sales of supplements.
https://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/view ... 81#p317181" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Therefore I take the tend to take the attitude of Campbell and McDougall which appears to be along the lines of having a relatively mixed/balanced WFPB and/or starch based diet, supplement for B12 and don't worry too much about the rest (my take on the message I get from them).

[Nobody]

Other than B12 which all vegans should be supplementing for, unless they know their levels are tested good, what other factors should we be looking out for?

The Seventh Day Adventist guide to plant based eating was for years :
B12, Iodine , Omega 3, Vit D, Iron, Calcium, Zinc


More recently, a peer reviewed supplement to the Medical Journal of Australia gave advice on vegetarian nutrition.
https://www.mja.com.au/open/2012/1/2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
specifically
https://www.mja.com.au/open/2012/1/2/me ... arian-diet" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
where
B12, Vit D, Omega 3, Zinc, and Iron require meal planning or supplementation.

Thanks for posting CK.

For most people all these will be non-issues if people educate themselves before starting a WFPB diet.

Vit D is just sunlight for most people in AU. There is some debate about how effective oral vit D supplementation is.

Omega 3 just requires a tablespoon of ground linseed daily.

Iron depends on the individual and is best tested after a while. For example, my ferritin was last tested at 461 (normal range is max 300) and I need to get some blood drained over the next few months. So too much iron is my problem and I think it's a hangover from my beef lovin' days. Ultrasounds suggest either haemochromatosis or fatty liver according to the specialist. Time will tell depending how fast my ferritin number drops.

My understanding is that zinc can be a problem for anyone in AU as AU soil is naturally low in zinc. Since iron and calcium are competitors of zinc, I'm very likely low in it. I'll get my iron sorted first and then see how I go with symptoms rather than just start supplementing for something I may not need long term.

[CKinnard]

I think the mja supplement spells out the cause/effect for each.
As mentioned, it is not necessarily a matter of supplementation, but appropriate planning of meals.
In the courses I'm involved with, the only supplement recommended for all age groups is B12.
If one has known health issues or is over 40 or under significant mental or physical stress, a general multi-supplement is recommended.

My reading reveals most fruits and vegetables produced these days have significantly less nutrient density than those produced 60 years ago.

Personally, I don't bother with bottled supplements. I eat 200-300g of animal flesh each week (usually 1x100g fish and 1-2x white or red meat), >=8 cups salad/vege a day, 1-4 cups whole grains (depending on activity level or dieting), 1-2 cups legumes, >=2 pieces of fruit, 10-20g nuts and seeds/day, several B12 fortified foods. If I was to eliminate animal flesh altogether, I'd take a supplement; though that doesn't infer I believe meat is a panacea for all. My personal bias is it's more important to focus on stress management, character development, life balance and meaning, and especially not overeating. You can stick the highest quality food in your mouth, but what happens to it after that is very heavily influenced by your state of mind and lifestyle! And if you stick too much high quality food in your mouth, it will not result in optimal health.

[casual_cyclist]

Thanks for posting this CC.
There appears to be some controversy surrounding Dr Fuhrman and his sales of supplements.
https://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/view ... 81#p317181" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Agreed. I view anyone who sells supplements as a snake oil salesman. However, I can't fault the science in the article I linked to, or I would not have linked to it.

Therefore I take the tend to take the attitude of Campbell and McDougall which appears to be along the lines of having a relatively mixed/balanced WFPB and/or starch based diet, supplement for B12 and don't worry too much about the rest (my take on the message I get from them).

Two independent sources highlight:
-B12, Vit D, Omega 3, Zinc, and Iron
-B12, zinc, iodine, DHA, vitamin D and taurine
which require meal planning or supplementation.
I agree with you to look at what you are eating and exclude any unlikely to be a problem. i.e. I agree with regards to vit D, although vitamin D deficiency is common in Australia [1]. Iodine deficiency is unlikely in Australia for anyone that lives near the coast. Calcium (not mentioned) is unlikely to be an issue if you are eating green leafy vegetables. I've never seriously considered iron supplementation because I eat beans nearly every day, but looking at the list, I may not be eating enough on some days. Still, I would rather address iron through food than supplemenation [2]. I have no idea what turine even is. Personally I take zinc and B12 regularly and sometimes magnesium if I am not eating many bananas.

[1] http://www.australianprescriber.com/magazine/33/4/103/6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
[2] http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/iron.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;