Heart rate question

[piston9]

Hey all,

I've been commuting 1-2 times per week for the last year - 35K commute each way, and I work reasonably hard (so 70-140K a week, plus any other rides). I'm lighter (though not light by any means - I like food too much - 116KG), and definitely fitter. I can get off my bike these days and get on with life, rather than collapsing into a pile of goo.

From the combined experience here, should my heart rate averages be coming down? For example, this morning my ride averaged 159BPM and maxed at 189 (which is about my absolute max - i'm about to tick 40). This has been about my average for the year though. Sure, i'm getting a little quicker, and definitely stronger, but I'm not seeing much improvement in this metric. I'm still at 80+ just putting the monitor on (Mio Link Alpha), and average is pretty high.

Maybe I'm just pushing to my heart, but I guess I've been hoping for improvement there! Maybe I'm not pushing enough...

Thanks for any feedback

[lobstermash]

Heart rate while exercising is an indicator of intensity. If you're working at the same intensity each time, it's not going to change much between rides...

Speaking very generally, if you're getting fitter then your resting heart rate will decline, and will respond rapidly (both up and down) to changes in exercise intensity. Also, if you're training to get stronger/faster, signs you're improving will be an increased average heart rate, as you're able to hold a higher intensity for longer.

[bigfriendlyvegan]

Measure your heart rate when you first get up in the morning. That will likely be your lowest resting heart rate of the day. as you get fitter, this should go down.

As for your riding heart rate, as you get fitter, your heart rate while you're sitting at X kph on a flat surface will likely decrease over time since you'll adapt to the work being done. Averages may not come down since, as you get fitter, you'll probably be going faster and working harder.

If you want to experiment with yourself (that's what she said), pick a good stretch of ground, sit at say 140bpm, and monitor your average speed over that segment over time. Sometimes it will be better, sometimes worse, since HR depends on so many factors (nutrition, hydration, tiredness etc), but will likely get faster in the long term.

[piston9]

Thanks

What I'm reading is that my average may well not go down - as i maintain the same effort despite increasing fitness. Just trying to keep half an eye on the ticker

And thanks for the resting heart rate advice - had kinda forgotten that, I will do some measurements. Just need to remember to keep the Mio handy for when I wake up and hope there is enough coffee left in the system to remember at that time!

[CXCommuter]

Check your HR with your finger and a watch- much better than HR as they can be dodgy due to poor connectivity until you have a little sweat worked up.

[piston9]

Thanks CX - my mio is an optical one (Mio Link). I don't mind the chest straps in summer, but in winter they are a pain to put on then a pain to get working

The Mio is a bit tight but i've had a year now and love it!

[chriscole]

Check your HR with your finger and a watch- much better than HR as they can be dodgy due to poor connectivity until you have a little sweat worked up.

I lick the contact electrodes on mine before I put it on. Works fine.

[clackers]

Hey all,

I've been commuting 1-2 times per week for the last year - 35K commute each way, and I work reasonably hard (so 70-140K a week, plus any other rides). I'm lighter (though not light by any means - I like food too much - 116KG), and definitely fitter. I can get off my bike these days and get on with life, rather than collapsing into a pile of goo.

From the combined experience here, should my heart rate averages be coming down? For example, this morning my ride averaged 159BPM and maxed at 189 (which is about my absolute max - i'm about to tick 40). This has been about my average for the year though. Sure, i'm getting a little quicker, and definitely stronger, but I'm not seeing much improvement in this metric. I'm still at 80+ just putting the monitor on (Mio Link Alpha), and average is pretty high.

Maybe I'm just pushing to my heart, but I guess I've been hoping for improvement there! Maybe I'm not pushing enough...

Thanks for any feedback

They say it doesn't get any easier, you just get faster.

It would be interesting to see whether you're putting out more power for the same effort.

[piston9]

They say it doesn't get any easier, you just get faster.

It would be interesting to see whether you're putting out more power for the same effort.

It would

Though since then I have been intentionally operating at a lower rate (so going slower), and yet, I'm often 'above average' on my total commute (35K's). So I guess it is working

[Abby]

Makes sense. As you get fitter (compared with when you started):
- at the same heart rate, you'll get faster (which is what you are observing),
- at the same speed, you'll have a lower heart rate

Both are wins!!

[clackers]

With a less fit opponent behind you, there'll be an effort that's still aerobic for you but anaerobic for him. After 30 seconds or whatever of match burning, he's been dropped.

[kenwstr]

Well, I'm 57 and the standard Max HR calc 220 - age = 163 for me. That's in fact about my average HR for most rides and I have at times recorded 180 ish without noticing until uploading the data. The max HR calc is an average for a very unfit overweight western population. If your an enthusiast cyclist, your not in that demographic. The old 220 - age is popular because it's simple but is is not very accurate. There have been many attempts to improve it with greater levels of complication but every person is different so determining Max heart rate requires an individual heart test. If you are an athlete, you need to set training zones to suit your own heart, not a population average. Personally I am not going to do a stress test to the point of passing out but testing sustainable HR over 30 min or so will give you a pretty good idea. Just start at low constant HR the increase a little each ride until you find what you can't sustain. Building lactic pain in the muscles indicates your over the threshold or perhaps you will blow up and have to slow down. This is around your aerobic, lactic etc threshold, about 80% HR max from memory. Always be sensible about your heart, I am not an expert so read up on the subject first and if your not comfortable with what your doing, don't do it.

One other thing, when I started using a HR monitor, I didn't know about static. At the beginning of a ride when your jersey is dry and maybe you do a fast downhill or the wind is up, your jersey can charge up and cause the monitor to exaggerate your HR well above reality. It ceases to be an issue further into the ride as sweat earths out the static. Using an anti static spray on the jersey after each wash will prevent this and give you much more reliable readings.


Regards,
Ken

[obsessedinfishin]

Agree with kenwstr. I am 40, but crack 185-186bpm when really pushing hard uphill. I.e. Mt Cootha final 500m or MTB race climb. 220bpm - age is conservative.
What I have found after 4yrs of 100km/week cyling on road and MTB, my resting heart rate is low. Sub 45 and sometimes in the 30s. Got the doc to check this out an all is OK. 179cm and 78kgs.
The fitter you get the faster your recovery time is. Search Heart Rate free iphone app is a great way to accurately check resting heart rate.
Until you get fitter and loose some kgs, be careful with max effort. 189bpm is high in anyones books for 40yr old.
Mix riding with swimming a couple of times per week. The kgs will fall off and increase your aerobic ability which will help on the bike.

[g-boaf]

Hey all,

I've been commuting 1-2 times per week for the last year - 35K commute each way, and I work reasonably hard (so 70-140K a week, plus any other rides). I'm lighter (though not light by any means - I like food too much - 116KG), and definitely fitter. I can get off my bike these days and get on with life, rather than collapsing into a pile of goo.

From the combined experience here, should my heart rate averages be coming down? For example, this morning my ride averaged 159BPM and maxed at 189 (which is about my absolute max - i'm about to tick 40). This has been about my average for the year though. Sure, i'm getting a little quicker, and definitely stronger, but I'm not seeing much improvement in this metric. I'm still at 80+ just putting the monitor on (Mio Link Alpha), and average is pretty high.

Maybe I'm just pushing to my heart, but I guess I've been hoping for improvement there! Maybe I'm not pushing enough...

Thanks for any feedback

I don't know if your averages or resting HR come down, but I do notice from having done a lot of hours in the last 3 weeks (52 hours), my HR doesn't spike as quickly for a given effort. I have to be working extremely hard for a minute or so to get my HR to go to 190bpm. When I say extremely hard, we are talking nearly flat out. I top out at 190bpm, I haven't seen higher than that, aside from dodgy HR monitor readings. That is the big change, apart from more power.

This is from Saturday: https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-b32 ... 32rhMk.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And one from the other week: http://www.smugmug.com/photos/i-5f5XHCZ ... f5XHCZ.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If I've been sick for a while (eg, cold/flu) and off for a week or two, I do notice when I get back into it that my HR will be high for any given effort. But after a while (maybe a week), it settles back down. Also beware of static interference from your jersey and also keep an eye on hydration. Some people also just have lower HR as well. Another person was doing the same as the above (the first image) and his HR sat on 130bpm or around that pretty consistently, but with a bit less power. He is a very fit triathlete who has been doing that for many years. Similar age to me though.

When you start getting fitter, then you can push yourself harder. Go by feel too. If you don't feel right, then ease off.

I'm not an expert at all of this however, and there are obviously people around here who are qualified coaches or even have university qualifications in sports related stuff. I have none of that. Just going from practical experience.

[Derny Driver]

... this morning my ride .... maxed at 189 (which is about my absolute max - i'm about to tick 40)....D

If you hit 189 on your commute then I would bet my house that 189 is not your true maximum.
Its probably closer to 200.
Its very very hard to hit your true maximum unless with the assistance of adrenaline or a race situation you are forced to go to that place. I could never hit my maximum on a training ride no matter how hard I pushed myself.
220 minus your age is so inaccurate its ridiculous. Some people have a low maximum ...Froome reckons his is 160. Everyone is different. My sons is 206. My brother is 51 years old and his maximum is 191. I am 57 and mine is 196. If you are 39 then there is no reason why you cant have a maximum of around 200. One mate of mine is 49 and has a maximum of 204.

Back on topic though I agree with what has already been said, your heart rate wont go down, you will just go faster / put out more power as you get fitter.
Dont be scared of hitting high heart rates, your heart wont explode. You will just get tired and have to slow down.

Ive posted before about the fallacy of riding hard every time you get on your bike. Make sure you have lots of easy riding days. Push hard if you feel strong. Take it easy if you are tired. Listen to your body.

[queequeg]

Anyone know the best way to get your true maximum rate? I suspect mine is in the ballpark of 220-age, but I'd like to get a real figure to work with.

[bigfriendlyvegan]

Anyone know the best way to get your true maximum rate? I suspect mine is in the ballpark of 220-age, but I'd like to get a real figure to work with.

Find big hill, ride it repeatedly until you almost vomit. Examine max HR on Garmin.

[queequeg]

Anyone know the best way to get your true maximum rate? I suspect mine is in the ballpark of 220-age, but I'd like to get a real figure to work with.

Find big hill, ride it repeatedly until you almost vomit. Examine max HR on Garmin.

Lol no need, I did Cervelo masters in the weekend and threw up in my mouth. I think at the time it said 95% or 96% max HR

[queequeg]

Anyone know the best way to get your true maximum rate? I suspect mine is in the ballpark of 220-age, but I'd like to get a real figure to work with.

Find big hill, ride it repeatedly until you almost vomit. Examine max HR on Garmin.

Lol no need, I did Cervelo masters in the weekend and threw up in my mouth. I think at the time it said 95% or 96% max HR

[bigfriendlyvegan]

The way exercise scientists and doctors do it is pretty much what I described and what you suffered through. The max your heart will reach is your max heart rate. Formulas are inaccurate, only testing will give you the right number.

[Derny Driver]

Without the correct motivation, your head will quit before your heart hits its maximum.
Remember that you heart rate will drop 20 beats the second you stop pedalling or ease the effort slightly.
So the key is to gradually increase heart load and not ease off until you hit the maximum.
Here are some possibilities.
1. Use a stationary trainer. Have a good long warm up and after about 20 minutes just keep gradually ramping up the load or the cadence. This works well if you are paying a coach or studio because people yell at you and force you to push yourself. You will feel like a failure and a time and money waster if you stop early so there is the required motivation. I am pretty sure that by yourself in your garage this method will probably not work as you will quit at about 95%.
2. Find a loooong steady hill and after a good warm up ride up it at an uncomfortable pace. Ride really hard and try not to slow down. As the pain increases embrace it and resist the overwhelming urge to stop / fall off / die. Again I am pretty sure you would quit unless you were chasing a very attractive Wiggle Honda rider up the hill or a friend who you had foolishly bet $1000 that you could beat.
3. Brag to all your mates on facebook about how you are going to win an A grade somewhere. During the race raise your heart rate to a ridiculously high level just trying to hold Eddie Salas's wheel and then to top it off launch into a 300 metre sprint into a headwind. Your heartrate on the line should hit maximum for a second or two.

I could probably think of other examples ...

[foo on patrol]

It is a mind set to push through that imaginary line and that is the difference between someone that is average and someone that want's to do the very best + some and pushes that much harder.

Push till you think that your lungs will explode out of your chest and then you will be there! Pain is good is pain.

Foo

[skydance]

Just remember that cycling HRmax can (and in most cases will) be different from running/swimming HRmax.

If you'd like to find out your real maximum, you'd have to try running. Or XC skiing - it exercises the highest possible HRmax.
Simple example: I can't go beyond 175 on a bike. This is my cycling HRmax. Running HRmax is 185. Skiing... well, I'm sure 185 is not the limit, but haven't had a chance to check that recently.

[ball bearing]

It seems that a low resting heart rate comes with it's own problems...

"...Compared with about 140,000 young men with the highest resting heart rates (above 83 beats per minute), those with the lowest heart rates (no more than 60 beats per minute) were 39 percent more likely to be convicted of a violent crime and had a 25 percent higher chance of getting convicted of nonviolent crimes...."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/ ... 9B20150909" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[bigfriendlyvegan]

It seems that a low resting heart rate comes with it's own problems...

"...Compared with about 140,000 young men with the highest resting heart rates (above 83 beats per minute), those with the lowest heart rates (no more than 60 beats per minute) were 39 percent more likely to be convicted of a violent crime and had a 25 percent higher chance of getting convicted of nonviolent crimes...."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/ ... 9B20150909" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This one's going straight into the file for the next critical thinking class I teach. I'm always looking for examples of "correlation does not mean causation" and this one is wonderful. I typically use the number of pirates versus global temperature, but that one's way too obvious.

BTW, I have a resting heart rate of 42. Australia is probably the best place for me.