Diet Thread

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CKinnard
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:33 pm

BB,

1. budgetary constraints don't play a role amongst the non english speaking Vietnamese families that sell fruit and vege at my local Sunday markets. They are slim people who earn very little, and have to feed many mouths with it. I have been a guest at a large Brisbane Buddhist community with over 3000 members, many of whom do not speak much english and who are mainly working poor, relying on family for financial and social security. I can tell you the overwhelming majority are not overweight. The SDAs in the AHS studies have a significantly healthier diet than non SDAs living in the same streets and working for the same employers. This is why I don't share your views.

Many Mexican rurals are having their land taken from them, have to pay drug cartels in produce or cash, or have to move due to cartel violence.

The SDAs didn't need government intervention. And what intervention are you talking about? You want a govt official to hold a gun to people's heads 3 times a day when they decide what they are going to put in their mouth? I suggest you explore or open your mind to the power of people and their beliefs to control what they feel is uncontrollable. Read the history of Alcoholics Anon, and their very effective strategy for kicking alcoholism.

We've been selling similar dietary guidelines for 40+ years, but the majority still don't know what they are or abide by them. Recall that 98% of Australians do not eat the minimum recommended amount of fruit and vege. Why is that? And don't tell me budget. My poor Asian migrant friends do it every day. Like I said earlier, people today eat more for convenience, emotional comfort, and hedonic pleasure. They are lazy and entitled. Surely you must have seen a lack of self discipline and people living within their means over yoru lifetime. I certainly have. And as I also said earlier, people are watching less television so how can you keep saying its advertising that's responsible? In fact, I cannot remember the last time I saw a McDonald's television advert. And guess what, in 1978, McDonald's Family Restaurants was one of my clients! And we blitzed television with advertising, week in week out...and Ronald McDonald was out on the streets and in the stores every weekend, it often being my boss!

What's happenign now in this secular reductionist society, is people have turned their back on what the power potential within every individual. There seems to be this heavy oppressive cloud of apathy and helplessness hanging over Australia. We all want to blame someone else, rather than looking more simply at things..... i.e. like my Asian migrant friends who grow a lot of their own stuff, and support each other within extended family and religious communities. Many Australians turned their back on religion and replaced it with what? I ask you is it serving them well? I see into several migrant communities around Brisbane and I can tell you it is their religion that provides the framework for trust and cooperation between members. This gives them a survival advantage sorely missing in much of Australian society. But hey, religion is uncool! The privileged elites have dictated it!!!!

In addition to the Vietnamese Buddhists, I have many friends who are members of a Sikh community nearby. Their rate of obesity is a bit higher than the Vietnamese, but they are still a lot lower than the Aussie average. Once again most are not well off.

I leave it to a bright fella like you to work out why these groups have lower obesity rates. .....ummmmm....ok....no I won't! I'll tell you ! :)
They have strong beliefs that counter populist culture, and these beliefs effect their dietary choices. BUT!!!! not only that. The rate that the children of these communities get into trouble with the police is much much lower than normal. In fact, I've spoken to the elders of both groups many times, and they don't know of any of their members getting into gangs or crime. But both groups are over-represented with high academic achievers in local schools.

Mate! BB my boy! Stop underplaying the freedom you have to live life differently, to eat differently.

BTW, I haven't had a drink of alcohol for 9 days! and have lost the taste for it! And the hunger pangs have calmed right down almost to the level they were in the US. And I didn't need the gubmint to ban alcohol or hold a gun to my head! Go figure!!

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:42 pm

CKinnard wrote:BTW, I haven't had a drink of alcohol for 9 days! and have lost the taste for it! And the hunger pangs have calmed right down almost to the level they were in the US.
Good for you CK. :)
I have about 1 beer at work a year to prove I can still drink and to put in a token social effort. So that's one drink a year.

Got yet another comment about my diet today in the lunch room. The proteinaholic commented that the veg I was eating had no protein. So I asked him if he knew how much protein he was supposed to get a day. He didn't know, so I told him. I also said that most get 1.8 times to double the protein they need and the excess is damaging, especially to their kidneys.
You can see I'm getting tired of my diet being placed under people's magnifying glass when they'd be offended if I did the same. Typical ingroup/outgroup behavior IMO.

RhapsodyX
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby RhapsodyX » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:06 am

CKinnard wrote:...
Mate! BB my boy! Stop underplaying the freedom you have to live life differently, to eat differently.
...
I always find it amusing when one person talks about society as a whole, and someone else then pulls out a minority group as an example of how the whole of the country should live.

In this country, in this time :
The majority of people live in cities.
The majority of people live in high density housing.
The majority of people have little free time.
The majority of people live on crap food, because that's what the supermarkets put in their faces and sell cheaply.

You can't hold up the example of a small group and then say "Here you go, everyone, you just need to do what they do!"

Just like picking a N < 1000 or short timeframe studies - that don't really prove anything, they just inform possibilities - or animal studies that often don't apply to humans, and then expect that it's going to "change the world" and be applicable to everyone.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Baalzamon » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:39 am

Nobody wrote: Haven't seen any recent updates from you in the loser thread. Have you given up since you reached your goal, or are you still losing?
I might try for a BMI just under 20 (< 60 kg) in summer to see what it feels like. Keeping the muscle weight up might be the most difficult part.
Maybe that is because the scales don't rule my life and I don't religiously check daily or weekly.
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CKinnard
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:16 pm

RhapsodyX wrote: I always find it amusing when one person talks about society as a whole, and someone else then pulls out a minority group as an example of how the whole of the country should live.
Yes, what could the unwashed masses possibly learn from a minority, with all their minority group privilege.

warthog1
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby warthog1 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 1:27 pm

CKinnard wrote: I see into several migrant communities around Brisbane and I can tell you it is their religion that provides the framework for trust and cooperation between members. This gives them a survival advantage sorely missing in much of Australian society. But hey, religion is uncool! The privileged elites have dictated it!!!!


Have the "privileged elites" dictated it or have the numerous cases of pedophilic butt rape covered up and denied by religious institutions, understandably contributed to a withdrawal from religion.

There is also the problem of religion not standing up to scientific scrutiny.

Religion has its' place but it causes many problems also. ;)
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CKinnard
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Thu Oct 20, 2016 1:53 pm

Nobody wrote:You can see I'm getting tired of my diet being placed under people's magnifying glass when they'd be offended if I did the same. Typical ingroup/outgroup behavior IMO.
Just ask them to recommend their favorite nutrition book.

big booty
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby big booty » Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:02 pm

CK you've either misunderstood my intent or you are deliberately wearing blinkers because it suits your frame of reference. You have yet to answer my question. Youre at the coal face, so are you winning the good fight or not? If you are then all well and good. If youre not winning then I'll repeat what Albert E said, If you (not you per se' but health advice in general from all sources) continue to do the same thing and expect the results to be different, youre (not you per se' but all health sources) crazy.

"Read the history of Alcoholics Anon, and their very effective strategy for kicking alcoholism." The success rate is about 10%. Not good but better than doing nothing. And yes I have been to meetings and was lucky enough to see a friend of mine save their life.

"BTW, I haven't had a drink of alcohol for 9 days! and have lost the taste for it! And the hunger pangs have calmed right down almost to the level they were in the US. And I didn't need the gubmint to ban alcohol or hold a gun to my head! Go figure!! " Your study of n= 1 is as irrelevant to the wider population as my diet of n=1 is. Extrapolate your success to the wider population at your peril.

CK all Im saying is that what has been put forward for the last 40 years hasn't work. The general health of the various populations has gotten worse. Surely youre not contesting that point? So if you just continue to "feed' people the same advice, what makes you think the outcomes will magically change? That's just crazy.

CKinnard
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:09 pm

warthog1 wrote:Have the "privileged elites" dictated it or have the numerous cases of pedophilic butt rape covered up and denied by religious institutions, understandably contributed to a withdrawal from religion.

There is also the problem of religion not standing up to scientific scrutiny.

Religion has its' place but it causes many problems also. ;)
The State funded and run Aboriginal communities have the highest rate of pedophilia. And diabetes while we are at it! Go figure!

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby warthog1 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:25 pm

People aren't clamoring to go and live in aboriginal communities either ;)
Dogs are the best people :wink:

CKinnard
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:01 pm

warthog1 wrote:People aren't clamoring to go and live in aboriginal communities either ;)
So they take the alternative!
Most pedophiles are family members, even for fostered children.
Doesnt say a lot about family values or State solutions.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby warthog1 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:25 pm

Deleted.
The ban on religious discussion is a good thing :oops:
Ill shut up instead.
Dogs are the best people :wink:

CKinnard
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:41 pm

big booty wrote: CK all Im saying is that what has been put forward for the last 40 years hasn't work. The general health of the various populations has gotten worse. Surely youre not contesting that point? So if you just continue to "feed' people the same advice, what makes you think the outcomes will magically change? That's just crazy.
The SDAs top health studies in Western nations, and you prefer to say there's nothing to learn from that?
Really, you need to respect the science behind those studies.

As for continuing to give the masses the same message as the last 40 years, where have I ever said I want to do that or think it is a good idea. I am a change agent. And a big part of that change is guiding people to make total lifestyle changes, which includes reviewing life meaning, and life priorities.

Baalzamon
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Baalzamon » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:43 pm

It's simple. If people from 1880 to 1920 can't recognise our food, should we???
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:49 pm

Baalzamon wrote:Maybe that is because the scales don't rule my life and I don't religiously check daily or weekly.
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=88025&p=1372824#p1372824

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mikesbytes
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:56 pm

We are a bit heated here today. Remember that we are all batting for the same side, we just have different opinions on how to hit the ball.

Here's my diet;
1. Every meal food
2. Every day food
3. Occasional food
4. Don't or rarely touch food

Avoid manufactured food by preparing your own food. Save's a heap of time as you don't need to read those tiny labels

Did you eat some green salad with your meal?
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:13 pm

Here's my diet:
1. Plant foods only.
2. Minimally, or non processed. So no oils, sugars, salt.
3. Higher calorie dense foods restricted.
4. Higher iron foods restricted.
mikesbytes wrote:Avoid manufactured food by preparing your own food. Save's a heap of time as you don't need to read those tiny labels
However a good diet is usually heavy on home cooking, which takes time. A worthwhile sacrifice IMO.
mikesbytes wrote:Did you eat some green salad with your meal?
No. But I try to eat 200g of iceberg lettuce a day as a snack.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:34 am

CKinnard wrote:
Nobody wrote:You can see I'm getting tired of my diet being placed under people's magnifying glass when they'd be offended if I did the same. Typical ingroup/outgroup behavior IMO.
Just ask them to recommend their favorite nutrition book.
Thanks, worth at try. Which is along the lines of the tactic I'm now taking of placing the focus back on them. Since they're intent is to attack me to make themselves feel better about their dietary choices.
If I take your advice, I'd better be prepared to have discussions about Mediterranean, paleo, 5:2, or low-carb if the past is anything to go by. Some of these people know about these things, but they are still have a WHtR over 0.5. Which may say more about their lack of commitment than their lack of knowledge on their particular favorite diet.
A common theme I come back to when talking to people about dietary choices is how important hsCRP is compared to the common cholesterol blood markers. Knowing their hsCRP might help them to make better future choices.

RhapsodyX
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby RhapsodyX » Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:49 pm

CKinnard wrote:
RhapsodyX wrote: I always find it amusing when one person talks about society as a whole, and someone else then pulls out a minority group as an example of how the whole of the country should live.
Yes, what could the unwashed masses possibly learn from a minority, with all their minority group privilege.
In context - they can learn everything the need to, but without access to land to grow their own food or local cheap fresh food that takes zero time to prepare, it's useless knowledge. The cheapest calories are in fast food, and people just don't see themselves as grossly overweight and needing to change.

CKinnard
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:06 pm

Nobody wrote: A common theme I come back to when talking to people about dietary choices is how important hsCRP is compared to the common cholesterol blood markers. Knowing their hsCRP might help them to make better future choices.
The majority are blissfully unaware how nutrition effects vision, hearing....and penile erections!
Great lunch time conversation!
But why are they unaware? Because the gooses who do mainstream media and bro sciecne, are woeful at the big balanced nutritional picture stuff. It's always got to be 'what's best for weight loss', "cutting", "bulking", "the latest", "the newest", "what Hollywood is doing"

The average Atkins or LCHF or bodybuilding dieter has never heard of lutein and zeaxanthin, or their health relevance....nor the relationship between animal produce, atherosclerosis, and many cancers. And until they do, many will continue to eat for convenience and hedonic pleasure, smug in the knowledge Western medicine has an understanding doctor and a pill for whatever ails them.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Baalzamon » Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:10 pm

CKinnard wrote:
Nobody wrote: A common theme I come back to when talking to people about dietary choices is how important hsCRP is compared to the common cholesterol blood markers. Knowing their hsCRP might help them to make better future choices.
The majority are blissfully unaware how nutrition effects vision, hearing....and penile erections!
Great lunch time conversation!
But why are they unaware? Because the gooses who do mainstream media and bro sciecne, are woeful at the big balanced nutritional picture stuff. It's always got to be 'what's best for weight loss', "cutting", "bulking", "the latest", "the newest", "what Hollywood is doing"

The average Atkins or LCHF or bodybuilding dieter has never heard of lutein and zeaxanthin, or their health relevance....nor the relationship between animal produce, atherosclerosis, and many cancers. And until they do, many will continue to eat for convenience and hedonic pleasure, smug in the knowledge Western medicine has an understanding doctor and a pill for whatever ails them.

Prove it. Give me studies and I'll throw them back at you. And I bet they are rat studies or studies that rely on human memory. Nothing that is in a controlled room for a year.
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Baalzamon » Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:19 pm

btw I just found what they are in. SPINACH. Spinach is a key for most LCHF people due to it's high potassium
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Fri Oct 21, 2016 10:24 pm

CKinnard wrote:It's always got to be 'what's best for weight loss', "cutting", "bulking", "the latest", "the newest", "what Hollywood is doing"
Also the latest individual vitamin/mineral or food component that some study found was healthy for XYZ.
CKinnard wrote:And until they do, many will continue to eat for convenience and hedonic pleasure, smug in the knowledge Western medicine has an understanding doctor and a pill for whatever ails them.
That's modern society, blame it on your genes and take some pills. Then you can continue to eat whatever you want.

I think I would find it unsettling to rely on pills for normal(ish) health and/or functionality. What if you suddenly can't get them anymore?

My adopted grandmother had heart problems from her 60s with a TC of 11. :shock: I think my adopted father said his was 9 at one stage. Anyway, she lived until 92yo. It makes me wonder how long she would have lived without her operations and Big Pharma. I suspect the current unusually high AU average life span has got a lot to do with meds and medical procedures.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:09 am

Yeh, people are often looking for the 'silver bullet', especially if it doesn't involve eating vegetables with their meal
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

CKinnard
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:59 am

Baalzamon wrote:Prove it. Give me studies and I'll throw them back at you. And I bet they are rat studies or studies that rely on human memory. Nothing that is in a controlled room for a year.
Go talk to an opthalmologist or academic optometrist about lifestyle choices that accelerate deterioration of vision, and ask him/her where Paleo's and Atkin's saturated fats sit on the damage scale.

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