Diet Thread

[warthog1]

[mikesbytes]

https://theconversation.com/junk-food-p ... tion-74749

There's an entire industry based around encouraging us to over eat, from marketing thru to food science

BTW, one of my Sydney indulgences was bodhi restaurant. Man, they just keep the food flowing there at lunch, yum cha style.
http://www.bodhi.id.au/

Enjoyed the experience, but was all a bit too starchy/dumpling for me.
I prefer more less processed fibrous carbs.

Reminds me of the sort of places I use to go to functions at when I was working in IT. Couldn't find the pricing.

[Patt0]

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Patt, your meals look very authentic SE Asian. I'd suggest if you can cut back on your rice, and bulk up on more vege and protein, after a week you might find your carb cravings easing. Be patient though. It is harder though if you exercise at higher intensities because you are burning a lot of glucose and glycogen then.

Yes my wife is Thai. It was soon after we met that my fat levels escalated to levels it had never been. Previously I had little carb and a huge amount of veg. That switched, but she now make me a separate plate of veg.

The sugar craving doesnt start till I eat. hence why one meal/ day seems to be working. It is working so well, I can see myself adhering to this as a long term strategy. My only concern is I am currently losing weight in spite of a large dinner and desert after. Night before last was about 1/2 kilo of home made apple pie . will I receive enough calories long term?

Speaking of my wife. She is a nurse in a cardiac ward. She told me recently, the one thing all the doctors she works with have in common, is they cycle.

[mikesbytes]

That can often be a male problem, a female comes on the scene and they loose control of the food preparation. Sometimes that can mean an improvement but it can also mean a worsening. To a lessor extent I have faced that issue and the education path has been more difficult than I would of expected. In your case having a wife that works in the cardiac ward she is seeing the result of wrong nutrition

[march83]

Bodhi's yum cha is something of a vegan institution. I've never actually been to the yum cha, but the dinner menu is fantastic.

[CKinnard]

The sugar craving doesnt start till I eat. hence why one meal/ day seems to be working. It is working so well, I can see myself adhering to this as a long term strategy. My only concern is I am currently losing weight in spite of a large dinner and desert after. Night before last was about 1/2 kilo of home made apple pie . will I receive enough calories long term?

Speaking of my wife. She is a nurse in a cardiac ward. She told me recently, the one thing all the doctors she works with have in common, is they cycle.

Patt, that you don't get cravings til you start eating rings a bell personally and with my clinical experience. Let me try and flesh out the physiology.
I believe it starts with coming to the table dehydrated. Appetite is very much associated with hydration state. If you are not carrying enough fluid on board, then your body will pull fluid from tissue (muscles, mucus membranes, etc) to sustain blood volume. The lack of interstitial fluid compromises the ability of nutrient and oxygen flow to cells, and the removal of metabolic waste and CO2. You end up with a lower pH in working tissue, and compromised glucose delivery. So negative fluid balance can trigger excessive appetite.

Once you start loading food on board at a main meal, your body will want to shunt blood preferentially to the gut to facilitate digestion and absorption. Starting a meal in a dehydrated state will only compromise non digestive tissues more so. This includes many of the neural and endocrine receptor networks that are involved in appetite regulation.

The solution is to get a half liter of fluid into you before main meals, preferably 3-15 minutes prior. This especially applies to breakfast, because we are all dehydrated on awakening, and many of us get through to lunch having had only 1-2 cups of caffeine.

Negative fluid balance also makes the blood more viscous. When you start eating, it gets even more so as you increase fat, AAs, and glucose transport. There is a strong association between heart attacks and strokes within 2 hours of heavy meals, especially fattier meals!!! something for the LCHF (and low vegetable) brigade to contemplate. When you understand how vegetables (and unprocessed starches) slow absorption of everything including fat and protein, you can appreciate more so how they protect the vascular system.

OK, I am running out of time here.
To cut to the chase, to quell appetite that specifically triggers during or shortly after eating, try these:
- hydration as above.
- some stretching and calming of the mind and emotions before eating. coming out of a high stress incident and straight into a meal is more likely to see you overeat. stretching will help to relieve stress and circulate adrenalin which mobilizes fatty acids. Both will suppress appetite. Exercising before meals also suppresses appetite for similar reasons, though light to moderate is better. Intense bouts of exercise followed immediately by eating doesn't give the body time to shunt blood to the gut and prepare gut enzymes for processing the meal.
- we discussed here a week or so ago that eating raw food first prevents overfeeding (i.e. eat salad before pasta and vege). this flows into just eating slower, enjoying conversation or a relaxing environ. The slower we eat the less likely we are to be enslaved to false appetite signals.
- many people with dysregulated blood glucose do seem to do better on LCHF, so benefit from dramatically reducing starch, even unprocessed. However it is my view one can normalize glucose levels and inappropriate appetite on HC or LC diets, if you get all the stuff mentioned above right. Inappropriate appetite starts with excessive excitement and busy-ness in one's life. The Blue Zones all share in common a less rushed life and more relaxation around meals. If we do that then we shouldl be able to tolerate carbs without wanting to overeat.

Major flaws in LCHF ideology are that it blames the obesity and diabetes epidemic on high carb low fat diets.
However, consider this:
- 75% of the world's population is lactase deficient after weaning, therefore a significant source of dietary fat (dairy) is inappropriate for them.
- homosapiens have been eating grains for at least 100,000 years (not the 20,000 spruiked by LCers). In that time, grains have never been associated with obesity epidemics, until the last 40 years. It is very sloppy logic to blame a whole macronutrient category for a health issue that is 40 years old. there is a myriad of other cultural and dietary factors that have changed in the last 40 years.
- the leanest and most long lived people on the planet (Blue Zones and many African traditional tribes) eat high carb, and very little animal produce. Diabetes and obesity are rare in both groups.

[march83]

@CK, fascinating post.

Hanging off this, some of my strategies for controlling this phenomenon of not being that hungry -> eating -> never feeling full overlap with this. I drink 800mL of mineral water while I'm preparing my meal and I make sure that everything i plan to eat is all prepared and in a bowl before i eat anything at all. the 2nd one means that I can visualise everything i'm going to eat and acknowledge that it's enough, but also it slows me down and stops me from preparing way too much food which I might do if i were eating in stages (coming and going from the kitchen).

So yeah, mindfulness and hydration make a big difference.

Also, on the topic of cravings, I think i've managed to put a dent in mine which have been running wild lately. I eat a vegan diet and about the most processed food that I eat is tofu, soy milk or nutritional yeast. everything else is basically raw vegetables or fruit, cooked vegetables or beans. My salt intake is super low, so I recently started to drink a cup of miso soup mid-morning at work which might be something. The other possibility is dramatically reducing the amount of fruit i'm eating (from ~5pieces a day to 1-2 pieces a day). Either/both of these seem to have helped a lot.

[mikesbytes]

You guys have touched on a topic that I don't think we have discussed before. A strategy that some have is to drink water before their meal so they can differentiate between being hungry and firstly. 800ml is quite a lot, I'd imagine that most who do this would be in the 250ml - 400ml, not that the quantity of water would be that critical.

So in simplistic terms that would put the meal as;
Water -> salad -> everything else

Salt was singled out as the enemy in the 80's and there was a bit of flack about the salt content in foods such as bread. The food manufacturers love it as its dirt cheap and tastes nice

[Patt0]

I drink at least 1200ml in the 1-2 hours preceding dinner. Easy to do and judge because I am on the bike and have two bidons. Even though I sweat copiously, I feel hydrated and will have a squirt not long after I get off the bike. My daily intake is typically 4.3L water and 600ml milk in my morning coffees. Again easy to calculate because at work I have to bottle water to take to my office.

I have come to the conclusion that I personally equate satiation with a drum tight stomach. Filling it only once a day has led to noticeable shrinkage of said stomach. Which I am happy for, but it did cause me concern last saturday, the day of my wife's birthday dinner at the Marriott seafood buffet.

The only thing that comes close to my love of food is obtaining value for my dollar. So for lunch I had a few tablespoons of psyllium husks and copious water. Did the trick. For dinner, I had no less than 40 wasabi oysters, two dozen fresh, two kilo of whole prawns, daily catch limit of crab, slab of fish, and a serve of every other dish and salad on offer. Including a slice of each bread and each cheese, good serve of chips and each desert including three of the cheesecake. It wasnt till I had finished that I discovered the pork and lamb roasts. So I had a serve of each of those too. Drum tight, ping! Couldnt swallow half a breath without inducing pain.

The next day feeling guilty, I went off the front in the third lap. Joined by another rider, we ended up lapping the bunch and I took the win. My first.

[Baalzamon]

Patt0 you sound like your leptin resistant.

[Calvin27]

That can often be a male problem, a female comes on the scene and they loose control of the food preparation. Sometimes that can mean an improvement but it can also mean a worsening. To a lessor extent I have faced that issue and the education path has been more difficult than I would of expected. In your case having a wife that works in the cardiac ward she is seeing the result of wrong nutrition

My other half ahs the metabolism of a 12 year old and can monster ridiculous portions and stay a small asian girl. Me on the other hand have been steadily gaining a kilo per year we are together. 12 year anniversary coming up, I am almost on target to hit 90kg .

I'll add it's not just food prep either. I mean sometimes you just feel like a monster greasy meal. So you do. he problem is tomorrow might be her craving for KFC or something so you eat it twice when you weren't actually craving it the second time around.

[Patt0]

My other half ahs the metabolism of a 12 year old and can monster ridiculous portions and stay a small asian girl.

Same . We can sit down for dinner, I will finish and then watch a movie and she will Finish the same time as the movie. When she orders duck and they ask, what part, she sez the whole duck.

[CKinnard]

I drink at least 1200ml in the 1-2 hours preceding dinner. Easy to do and judge because I am on the bike and have two bidons. Even though I sweat copiously, I feel hydrated and will have a squirt not long after I get off the bike. My daily intake is typically 4.3L water and 600ml milk in my morning coffees. Again easy to calculate because at work I have to bottle water to take to my office.

I have come to the conclusion that I personally equate satiation with a drum tight stomach. Filling it only once a day has led to noticeable shrinkage of said stomach. Which I am happy for, but it did cause me concern last saturday, the day of my wife's birthday dinner at the Marriott seafood buffet.

Wow, if you are drinking 4.3L in this weather, then you certainly must sweat a lot, or have excessive glucose in your blood.
One confirmatory thing for adequate hydration is the color of your urine, and quantity.
Also, particularly intense rides can push your appetite after a delay. It can be a combo of exercise induced disrupted fluid distribution and cortisol/glycogen cascades.

That seafood buffet seems like a hell of a lot of food. I am stunned you can jam that much in if you have been having one meal a day for some time. Though you appeared to have zero or very little fiber (vegetables/salad) which helps sate at a lower Calorie intake.

[Aussiebullet]

Lol 4.3lts is a lot? I drink 8-12lts per day year round!

[Nobody]

https://www.thegoldqueen.com/wp-content ... eeddis.jpg

Plenty of that kind of food in my house. I get around it mentally by buying and cooking my own food. So all that food is theirs (the family's) and so I generally don't think about it much.

[Patt0]

Plenty of that kind of food in my house.

It is my duty to eat it all and save my kids.

[Nobody]

Speaking of my wife. She is a nurse in a cardiac ward. She told me recently, the one thing all the doctors she works with have in common, is they cycle.

Give it 30 years until the science becomes more commonly known and accepted. Then the cardiac doctors may have a whole food, plant only diet in common as well.

[mikesbytes]

As you know I'm interested in the psychology around food and got to test it out with last nights dinner. While in NZ my wife got to each Nachos at Sky Tower in Auckland and wanted me to make it, so I did but I did it differently. When I make Nachos I usually make vegetarian but she wanted me to make beef as was eaten in Auckland, which is something I didn't want to do but at the same time I wanted to make everyone happy so I compromised, however I made modifications where I thought I could improve it where those improvements would be accepted by the target audience. The end result was she was so happy with the meal that she put a photo on FB.

So what was different to a commercially purchased Nachos? (yeh I know it varies from place to place);
1. I didn't have a layer of corn chips, I used only 10 corn chips and they were clearly in display, 8 of which had a little bit of cheese on them
2. I used 1/3 mince, 2/3 beans in the mix, this seemed to be enough mince to meet the beef requirement
3. The mix was pumped up with carrot and onion, which was hardly noticeable
4. There appears to be a lot more sour cream on top that there was in real life, it was about placement
5. The mix was bordered by raw cabbage & tomato on one side and a cooked mushroom on the other side both of which added appeal to the dish while increasing the vegetable intake

End result was it looked like Nachos while having a series of modifications to improve its nutritional value. I don't want to use the word 'healthy' but it was way better than Nachos usually is

This is the photo she posted;

[warthog1]

https://www.thegoldqueen.com/wp-content ... eeddis.jpg

Plenty of that kind of food in my house. I get around it mentally by buying and cooking my own food. So all that food is theirs (the family's) and so I generally don't think about it much.

The photo is at a work location. I just like the look on the critter's face.
Posted it here as a p1 sstake.
I'm glad you have a sense of humour mate

[CKinnard]

Lol 4.3lts is a lot? I drink 8-12lts per day year round!

Considering that's an extreme amount of fluid to consume, I can only presume your lifestyle is far from conventional.
But don't feel pressed to qualify.

[mikesbytes]

This article recommends 3ltrs of water a day and lists what can happen if you go for too much

10 Unusual Side Effects Of Drinking Too Much Water

You can even drink yourself to death

Why Drinking Too Much Water Can Be Harmful To Your Health

My personal water consumption is probably on the low side. It does vary greatly on different days depending on what activities I'm doing and temperature

[Nobody]

I saw a webinar with Doug Lisle who said drinking beyond thirst is as illogical* as drinking less than satisfying thirst. But he did place a caveat behind that statement, that if you're older/elderly you should drink a small amount of water above thirst, as your thirst mechanism fades with age.

Personally, I have a very weak thirst mechanism (and a pretty faint hunger one too) which means I need to deliberately consume water before, during and after a ride if I want to avoid a dehydration headache later that day and/or into the next day. I usually drink at least one litre of water straight after a ride, with an additional half a litre if it was hotter.

* "illogical" may not have been the word he used, but it's close for the point he was making.

[CKinnard]

Nobody, it is very very common to have suppressed thirst mechanisms in Western societies, and even more so as one grows older. (but I'll spare the explanation)

This is why I laugh when I hear and read the advice 'drink when you are thirsty', which is even more ignorant than 'eat when you are hungry'.

And I've heard doctors and dietitians and nurses and personal trainers and 'responsible' media writers say this bunk ten thousand times too many.

Ah well, none of us are getting out of here alive.

[ball bearing]

I often forget to drink on two or three hour rides unless it's quite hot. This never seems to bother me much, but I sometimes have a sip even when I am not thirsty.

What's the theory about the suppressed thirst syndrome?

[Aussiebullet]

Lol 4.3lts is a lot? I drink 8-12lts per day year round!

Considering that's an extreme amount of fluid to consume,[/color]

For who a 4'5 ft 40kg sedentary female who eats 1200cal a day? Or a 6ft + tank of a bloke who smashes out 20 plus hours of endurance and resistance training per/wk and consumes over 6000cals on most days?


I can only presume your lifestyle is far from conventional.

You nailed it in one Buddy


But don't feel pressed to qualify.[/quote]

No mate I'm good, Doc agrees, and also agrees with you; no one is leaving the party with a pulse.