Diet Thread

[mikesbytes]

So this week I made Tuesday's lunch at Hungry Jacks and you know what, it reminds me of McDonald's 5 years ago. There was a series of problems;
1. The Kj's stated were for meals, only the Junior burgers had the Kj's stated for just the burger. I did later spot a list for everything separately, it wasn't that noticeable. I got the impression they were doing the minimum to meet govt regulations.
2. There were no options on the burgers such as wraps or other breads. Not that I see an improvement at their competitors who did offer them.
3. Kj's for a burger meal (includes chips and softdrink) was about 2.2 * the Kj's of what I've coined a standard meal
4. I decided to buy the 1500Kj junior burger, which is marketed as a snack I asked for a salad and was advised that they don't sell salad. This is despite that the ingredients of the salad are in their burgers.

So I ended up with a small burger and a long black $5.30 (off memory). A bottle of water was also an option. Truth been it was too small for my lunch but the next option up doubled the Kj, where what I needed was about another 500kj at a guess. End result was when I got home at 4 I had a banana and a slice of cheese.

Surprisingly the people at Hungry Jacks weren't as fat as at McDonalds, which was a little surprising as it seemed that the typical Kj intake at HJ's was either even or slightly higher than McDonalds

McDonalds vs Hungry Jacks? the winner is McDonalds

Here's the debatable question, if I went to KFC I could of had a salad that was 1170Kj. Was I better off at KFC knowing I'd get a salad but at 1170Kj cost?

[Nobody]

Here's the debatable question, if I went to KFC I could of had a salad that was 1170Kj. Was I better off at KFC knowing I'd get a salad but at 1170Kj cost?

https://www.kfc.com.au/menu/extras/kfc- ... salad-side
https://www.kfc.com.au/nutrition?id=313 ... tion-table
https://www.kfc.com.au/media/1055198/kf ... er2016.pdf

Can't find an ingredients list for the salad. But by the macro ratio below looks like there is cheese in the salad.

Energy density:
94.2 Cal/100g

Macro ratio:
C 35.4 : F 56.4 : P 8.2

For an average style of diet, the main two factors (other than animal products being obesegenic) is the energy density and fat ratio. The energy density is OK, but the macro ratio for fat is higher than even burgers which are usually around 45 to 50%.

If I was you, I'd do what you did.
If I had to make the bad choice with equal calorie intake I would get the salad at KFC believing if you got the same number of calories from the salad or burgers, the burgers would put on more weight and give a poorer health outcome.

Obviously the correct answer for health is to bring a healthy lunch from home.

[CKinnard]

I am sure I had a Subway wrap a few weeks ago that was under 300 Calories!
It had the standard salads on it which have not changed much in 20 odd years.
Boring!

[mikesbytes]

I posted on FB and got some constructive criticism + suggestions

"I don't know why people go to places like Hungry Jacks and expect to buy salad. Got to Sumo Salad or the like"

"At Oporto you can ask them to leave the dressing out of the salad"

The second comment made me think about the KFC salad, could I ask them to leave out the dressing and cheese (if that's what its got)?

On my hit list is Subway, which is at the same location at Hungry Jacks and KFC is there too. Thinking out aloud I could go to KFC ask for the custom salad and if its declined walk out and go to Subway

BTW I don't know why but the people eating at Hungry Jacks were slimmer than the people eating at McDonalds. Perhaps it was just who happened to be there when I visited or it could indicate that Hungry Jacks customers are occasional fast food eaters where McDonalds customers are every day fast food eaters

[march83]

"I don't know why people go to places like Hungry Jacks and expect to buy salad. Got to Sumo Salad or the like"

Because quite often it's the only option. Sometimes you're remote, early, late, lost, whatever. Sometimes you need the facilities more than you need the food because you're tired or you need to use the toilet or the kids need a place to play, etc. There are lots of reasons people who don't want to eat McDonalds end up in McDonalds. That's not a reason for McDonalds to cater to a wider range of tastes and dietary needs but it sure as hell would make life easier sometimes.

Off the back of this, I quit McDonalds as my 2001 new year's resolution and never looked back. Since then the only thing I've only had from McDonalds is coffee on 2 or 3 occasions.

[mikesbytes]

"I don't know why people go to places like Hungry Jacks and expect to buy salad. Got to Sumo Salad or the like"

Because quite often it's the only option. Sometimes you're remote, early, late, lost, whatever. Sometimes you need the facilities more than you need the food because you're tired or you need to use the toilet or the kids need a place to play, etc. There are lots of reasons people who don't want to eat McDonalds end up in McDonalds. That's not a reason for McDonalds to cater to a wider range of tastes and dietary needs but it sure as hell would make life easier sometimes.

Off the back of this, I quit McDonalds as my 2001 new year's resolution and never looked back. Since then the only thing I've only had from McDonalds is coffee on 2 or 3 occasions.

Macca's has improved since 2001. its a lot easier to improve the nutritional value than it was back then.

An interesting thing I'm seeing out of this experiment is that when one bags fast food they will often use McDonald's as a representation for all but McDonald's is not the worst offender, for example its obvious on their menu boards that you can substitute the chips for a salad and substitute the soft drink for coffee or water. Where at Hungry Jacks it was not obvious what substitutions could be done and there was no salad despite the burgers containing vegetables that could be used in a salad.

[march83]

It was originally out of principle as much as for dietary reasons - Not supporting big brands was appealing as an idealistic teenager.

Regardless, I'll keep doing it. I'm a dad and I try to do better for my kids and I'm vegan now so...

[mikesbytes]

It seems to be quite difficult to eat out if your vegan. You really need to know where to go or make your own. Vegetarian seems much easier from a casual purchasing viewpoint but even that is limited in the major chains. The worst off are those with special needs, such as nut alleges, you can't trust outlets, some even will have a severe reaction if the knife was previously used to cut nuts

[Nobody]

On my hit list is Subway, which is at the same location at Hungry Jacks and KFC is there too. Thinking out aloud I could go to KFC ask for the custom salad and if its declined walk out and go to Subway

I'd guess that the KFC salads are pre-made and pre-packed, so unlikely they will have custom options.

Subway is easy. The most healthy sandwich is their Veggie Delight. Like in the shop, you can customise it online.
I got mine down to 222.4 Cal using all the salads but avocado (which I don't like anyway), "wheat" bread and no sauces or cheese.
Macro ratio is C 73 : F 11 : P 16. Cal density I would guess to be about 90 to 100 since they don't list weights.
That's for a 6". I'd probably buy 2 footlongs (which apparently are 11") to make sure I was fed. That should be about 890 Cal, which is about a third of my daily energy intake.

Having said that, I'd still most likely just abstain from eating for the day until I got home. Healthier to avoid the bread IMO, although not a big deal. I'd eat them if there was a pressing need to be social.

[mikesbytes]

Subway has the advantage that you can easily customise what you get. Another advantage is that they are in a lot of locations, so there's a chance that when your somewhere that you don't frequent often, you can find one.

A couple of questions come to mind;
1. The Kj rating advised, does that include the sauce and if so, which one?
2. Which sauces are low Kj?

Its been a while since I've been there, when I give it the test I'll go in without any prior research and see how easy or difficult to make decisions based on the info that readily displayed.

BTW I fully anticipate Subway being the winner of the major fast food chains but shall see where their strengths and challenges are

[Nobody]

A couple of questions come to mind;
1. The Kj rating advised, does that include the sauce and if so, which one?
2. Which sauces are low Kj?

1. The standard Vegie Delite sub doesn't include sauce, cheese or even all the salad ingredients.

As said above, you can customise online, which means you can compare everything yourself.
https://www.subway.com.au/menu/6-grams- ... gie-delite

2. In the order of lowest first; Marinara, Hot Chilli and Tomato.


At least I now know what to order if I ever have to buy Subway.

[CKinnard]

At least I now know what to order if I ever have to buy Subway.

I have a mate who owns 6 Subways. I'll clarify when I see him next, but I am sure he told me you could get pretty much whatever you wanted. It just depends on the training of the staff, time of day, etc. Like they can't obviously put 5 sandwiches worth of one ingredient on 1 sub because it reduces total subs they can make. The problem is most staff are pretty young, and don't use common sense if asked for something varied.

Incidentally, if anyone is a solar power nerd, he is looking at installing in his stores. First in Australia apparently. (panels and batteries)
The advice to date is go AGM lead acid batteries are best for application, and avoid zinc bromide flow.

[mikesbytes]

The exercise I'm doing is to not know too much before walking in. Of course that isn't overtly perfect as I have better knowledge than the general population. That approach won't work for those with specific dietary needs and as Nobody has pointed out, the necessary pre-work can be done for Subway at least.

One point that has come out of these discussions is that you can customise the contents of the burger/sandwich/whatever at some outlets. I should point out that this not preferred by the seller as it increases labour overheads however they provide it, no doubt for their image or to deflect criticism.

So in hind sight when I was at Hungry Jacks and was declined a request for a salad, could I of done one or both of the following;
1. requested that the junior burger have extra veges inserted, I would of been specific to ensure that the quantity got in there
2. requested them to put some lettuce and tomato in a burger container. If they declined I could of told a white lie saying that I have a condition that requires me to eat fibre with every meal [its called Homo sapien]. Failing that buy a burger with all the ingredients removed except the lettuce

Anyway back to more realistic options, how about when I go to subway I was the staff to put in the sandwich exactly what is included in the stated Kj rating. I'm not trying to trip up the staff, more so to get an understanding of what is being sold (at the Kj level)

As a separate topic in this post, I was thinking about the lack of push for vegetarian and vegan options. What I'm thinking is about cost as wouldn't the vegetarian and/or vegan options be cheaper to produce and therefor increase profits? The answer is more likely in that the food costs make up a small proportion of the cost after marketing, site and labour costs that the saving isn't sufficient to market

[CKinnard]

My mate says vege spoilage isn't that big at subway, but I know it is elsewhere. There's just not enough demand for it for a business dependent on volume to carry it. You'll note the majority of people who go to top restaurants don't order vege on the side with their main....and mains are pretty much a central protein source, a glamorous sauce, and a bit of starch....well maybe a few mint leaves and 5 bean shoots for artistic balance. Unfortunately, when you eat out, you are more often than not restricted to what the majority eat. That's business!

[Nobody]

At least I now know what to order if I ever have to buy Subway.

I have a mate who owns 6 Subways. I'll clarify when I see him next, but I am sure he told me you could get pretty much whatever you wanted.

The foot long Vege Delites with all the toppings but Avocado, no sauce on wheat bread should be fine. I'm not after anything special. I recently bought a standard catering pack to contribute to a party recently. Just to show I'm not a "you must be vegan" type. But as for buying for myself, I'll probably continue to just eat at home, or prepare and take my food with me.

[CKinnard]

Caught up with my subway mate this morning. He says definitely you can ask for what you want and you should be accommodated, within reason. The vegie pattie is vegan.

he also says they get three deliveries a week of fresh vege, and have under 10-15% spoilage.
he also said some vege are harder to get at various times through the year. currently beetroot is an issue.

[Baalzamon]

So I just tested my BG and it was 4.2 now I'm eating a banana. Lets see what happens over 2hrs.

[Baalzamon]

30 mins now, and it's 5.3

[Baalzamon]

1hr update now. 5.5 BG

[Baalzamon]

1.5hrs later and now it's 4.3 and I'm happy. YAY I can eat banana's

[Baalzamon]

btw I'm just sussing out what foods I can eat safely that won't spike MY blood sugar within 1.5hrs or next morning window. I've found that happens with tomatoes to me.... Allergic reaction. Most likely due to nightshade family.

[Nobody]

The usual contentious issue of how much salt should people be eating is covered again. As usual no clear answer as far as I can see. More of a summary that if you have issues, restrict. But if you don't, don't. I get some extra sodium via celery (80mg/100g) after rides. But otherwise for me salt is something easier to avoid than to be worried about how much I need and how much is too much for good health.

[CKinnard]

btw I'm just sussing out what foods I can eat safely that won't spike MY blood sugar within 1.5hrs or next morning window. I've found that happens with tomatoes to me.... Allergic reaction. Most likely due to nightshade family.

I'd suggest you retest tomatoes 3 times. They are not known to cause glucose spikes.

And regarding bananas, glucose spiking is also effected by dose and variety. So you might get higher BG if you ate 2 or 3 lady fingers in a sitting.

[mikesbytes]

<snip>I'd suggest you retest tomatoes 3 times. They are not known to cause glucose spikes

That's interesting, I've heard of a few low carb people not eating tomato's and I felt it was OTT but perhaps there's some justification that aligns with their approach

[CKinnard]

I can't find an insulin index listing for raw tomatoes, but here's one for Paul Newman's tomato pasta sauce. You could reasonably expect a lower FII for raw tomatoes considering there's more fiber to slow absorption.

Note some other foods with similar food insulin index (FII) readings to tomato sauce:
reduced fat cottage cheese
lentils
brown rice
raw apple
fish

Table A: Macronutrient composition, Glycaemic Index (GI), Glycaemic Load (GL), Glucose Score (GS), and Food Insulin Index (FII) for 1000kJ portions of the reference food and test foods