Diet Thread

[Nobody]

From a guy that tends to overthink things. I think that unless you have a specific problem like T1D or T2D, etc, chasing GI, GL, FII etc is getting into the realm of overthinking it. Most people will eat groups of foods together rather than individual foods. There also has been the argument that higher GI is more satiating and trains the body to become more insulin sensitive.

I'm probably going to eat about 850g of grapes this morning since they are still in season and relatively cheap. Been doing this for weeks. Haven't put on weight because of it.
http://glycemicindex.com/foodSearch.php ... &ak=detail

[mikesbytes]

Did Subway for this weeks Tuesday lunch and while some things were as expected other things came as a surprise

As a rough rule of thumb most of the choices had sufficiently low enough Kj's providing you chose a 6 inch and not a foot long. There was a daily special and on Tuesday that's ham which was one of the lowest Kj options at about 1100Kj off memory meaning that it was in alignment with Macca's toastie while appearing to be more substantial

So I asked to have exactly what was in it for the Kj stated and as expected they didn't know, they looked at the picture with blank faces, so I asked them if it included a sauce and if so which one for the Kj stated. Then they started giving me answers which sounded entirely made up, the sauce was 1000 islands. I was also advised that it included all the vegetables. The inflection in their voice told me they were making it up.

Next I asked for a long black. She looked at me with a blank face and then gave me an empty paper cup [for the soft drink machine] I said no I want a long black and she went and asked the other lady what a long black was who then told me that the coffee machine (which was directly in front of me) wasn't working. As far as I could gather it wasn't working because they hadn't switched it on and they hadn't switched it on because they don't know how to make coffee. So I selected a lightly carbonated water from the fridge which had quite a nice taste I have to say.

Now I had noticed that they didn't ask me to choose the bread and the next customer who specified without being prompted was told it was baking. The reason became evident, it was yesterdays bread. Seriously, this had become my worst experience at a subway ever. It struck me as a business that was on death row, only a small number of customers, trade's who weren't fat.

I'll need to find another subway to get a proper evaluation of the service however there were some conclusions;
1. You can't accurately judge the Kj's based on what is displayed in the store and in this instance the staff were unable to help and in fact were misleading. My gut feeling at the shop is that if you want an accurate Kj figure then the breakfast all day was the option or you needed to do some pre-research

2. Considering that the nature of the food made it very easy to control the ingredients the lack of info on the bread could spread doubt to those who are vegetarian or vegan as the bread ingredients weren't readily available

3. There was no wrap option however there was flat bread and I could see from the breakfast menu that flat bread contains 200Kj more than the normal bread, so there seemed to be no reason to choose it unless you had a yeast allergy or the like

4. There was no marketing that pushed the core food, in this case the sandwich into a meal, which for the others is adding chips and soft drink so rather than becoming the default the cookie was an optional extra and the drinks had some better options except coffee and tea were missing in this instance

5. The low carb option was marketed with a photo of the ingredients of the sandwich in a paper bowl but there was no nutrition information at all, which appears to be a breach of govt regulation. It appeared to be chicken in the photo but the photo was really a guideline photo
2.

[CKinnard]

Nobody, all things considered, I agree.
If you eat high FII foods with low, digestion and absorption of the high is slowed.
What slows absorption best is unprocessed vegetable fiber (green leafys, celery, broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower, etc)

Mike, you could write a complaint letter to Subway head office. They are a pretty pro-active group and don't put up with shoddy franchisees cos it makes all the others look bad. These staff are obviously a combo of poor training and poor life skills. A smart operator wouldn't buy a Subway if it was marginal. And even a good operator is subject to market forces that can maim them. My mate had one of his subways go through a 40% drop in sales when the shopping center exercised their right to shift him to another location in the center after a major renovation.

[Nobody]

3. There was no wrap option however there was flat bread and I could see from the breakfast menu that flat bread contains 200Kj more than the normal bread, so there seemed to be no reason to choose it unless you had a yeast allergy or the like

https://www.subway.com.au/menu/breads/

On the web site there is a wrap. Although like you said with flat bread, it's not lower than the "wheat" bread, so why bother.

[Baalzamon]

btw I'm just sussing out what foods I can eat safely that won't spike MY blood sugar within 1.5hrs or next morning window. I've found that happens with tomatoes to me.... Allergic reaction. Most likely due to nightshade family.

I'd suggest you retest tomatoes 3 times. They are not known to cause glucose spikes.

And regarding bananas, glucose spiking is also effected by dose and variety. So you might get higher BG if you ate 2 or 3 lady fingers in a sitting.

People can just be allergic to the tomato skins.
Yesterday Keto burger for lunch with 2 slices of tomato. Today blood sugar way higher than normal. Next I'm testing 2 slices of tomatoes without skin.... Yep people can be allergic to tomato skins and not the insides.

[Comedian]

Well I'm giving LCHF a go. I'm certainly not trying for very low, just fairly low. So far I'm enjoying it although not so much the afternoon headache.

[Baalzamon]

Well I'm giving LCHF a go. I'm certainly not trying for very low, just fairly low. So far I'm enjoying it although not so much the afternoon headache.

How is your sodium/potassium/magnesium intake?
Headache is normally from low sodium

[Comedian]

Well I'm giving LCHF a go. I'm certainly not trying for very low, just fairly low. So far I'm enjoying it although not so much the afternoon headache.

How is your sodium/potassium/magnesium intake?
Headache is normally from low sodium

Good question... how do you quantify it?

Either way I read that it's a contender for these headaches so I've started taking magnesium again and I'm having electrolyte on the bike and one during the day (Nuun Tab). Does that sound reasonable?

[Baalzamon]

You need 5000mg sodium and 400mg magnesium. If your cycling you would need 7000mg sodium. Sodium and potassium are also linked. So make sure you have avocado, spinach, kale in real foods vs potassium supplements.
I put 1g salt in my water bottles at least 5x daily and that is only half my sodium intake.

[Comedian]

You need 5000mg sodium and 400mg magnesium. If your cycling you would need 7000mg sodium. Sodium and potassium are also linked. So make sure you have avocado, spinach, kale in real foods vs potassium supplements.
I put 1g salt in my water bottles at least 5x daily and that is only half my sodium intake.

Thanks mate.. I'm going to have to try and add it up. I think you're right. LC diets miss out on the salt breads and pastas and the like..

However it seems as though it's highly variable.. IE it depends on how much you sweat, but even then some people sweat more salt than others. I'm going to have a think on this one.

[CKinnard]

hmmm.... salt
There's a lot of important nuances that are lost in simplifying.

Both low and high sodium can cause severe headaches.
as can reduced caffeine or Calorie intake.
Reducing average salt intake reduces blood volume carried until an adaptive normalization occurs. But blood volume will also reduce on a Calorie deficit. reduced volume can trigger headaches, but should pass within a week.

https://www.nrv.gov.au/nutrients/sodium
osteoporosis, hypertension, stroke, arrhythmia risk
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16772639

It's appropriate to replace sodium salt if sweating when on longer rides (over 2 hours), but also potassium, calcium, magnesium.
Sodium concentration in sweat varies significantly but the median across studies into athletes in sub tropics is 800mg/L sweat. A lighter sweater on a hot day in a spirited ride might lose 1/2L/hour, moderate 1L/hr, heavy 2L/hr.
easiest way to determine sweat rate is weigh yourself before and after a ride, subtracting any fluids or food taken, and adding any urine (or just avoid it)
work out your hourly sweat rate, and take 2grams salt per liter.

To convert sodium quantities into salt, divide by 0.4.

LCHF diets are also prone to causing headaches relating to
- the switchover to more fat burning, and less reliance on glucose, which requires an adaptation via the brain.
- increased systemic inflammation if animal produce is increased and vegetable/fruit intake is below the Australian dietary guidelines.

[Nobody]

Cooking at home tonight? It's likely cheaper and healthier, study finds

It should be obvious, but people do at times question which is cheaper. Per calorie it might be cheaper to buy fast food. But if that's the main criteria, then a bottle of cheap vegetable oil at about $0.22 and 813 Cal per 100 mL, or the average daily energy intake (2300 Cal) for $0.62 should be a bargain.
_________________________________________________________________

Nearly half of all deaths in the United States in 2012 that were caused by cardiometabolic diseases, including heart disease, stroke and type 2 diabetes, have been linked to substandard eating habits, according to a study.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 141210.htm

No surprises here either.

[mikesbytes]

This weeks Tuesday lunch installment

Nandos

What I found was a bit more upmarket than the other fast food chains. The first thing I noticed was the vegetarian menu, there was 5 choices proudly displayed and 4 of them had average or lower Kj ratings. One vegetarian option was high, that being the patty one. I couldn't be surprised to find out that they were actually vegan, but it wasn't displayed so external research would be needed and this is a walk in survey. Conclusion from that was that you could go there with most of friends and there would be something to eat despite their food preferences be it religion, health etc.

I was quite hungry and was prepare to buy a 2,400Kj burger however from what was obvious was that the burgers or the like were a lot lower in the Kj than the other places, there were quite a few choices around the 1,800Kj bracket.

Bread options there were 4, the burger, pita bread, wrap and Portuguese roll. It wasn't easy to decipher the Kj's of the bread as they were different offerings except for the pita bread vs the burger, the pita bread was 290kj lower than the burger with identical filling. Another predictor that the pita bread was lower is that the vegetarian Mushroom Pita offering was only 1,200 and something Kj's. I'll try that option another time, it was tempting.

So I went for a Chicken Perpori (spelling) Portuguese roll which was 1,800Kj with a solid slab of breast chicken, sauce and salad. the roll had a solid feel, it didn't swash like a burger from the other places. Sauce was a choice of very hot thru to totally mild. I've assumed the Kj's were the same but I have no info to base that assumption on.

Rather than been sold as a meal like Macca's and Hungry Jacks the meal option was presented as an extra, consisting of a side and a drink. There were about 6 sides to choose from and I was tired and hungry I elected to take the meal, I purchased a soft drink to spike my blood insulin but I have to confess I would of preferred a coffee but they don't sell it and of course I choose the salad. Price had jumped to $17.55 (off memory), making it the second most expensive lunch I'd had after the coffee shop under the gym. The burger (roll) was about $9.55 (off memory) but what bumped the price a lot was the extras, the salad was $3.95.

Now before we hit them about the price, I was given a number and the food brought to me on china plates, which I ate with metal fork and knife.

I'd say that while the salad was more expensive it was a little bigger and a little more elaborate than McDonald's but it didn't come with a sauce like McDonald's which was low Kj anyway.

Not many there when I was there. The few I saw I'd say were all around 25 BMI, so not as low as Subway but much thinner than McDonald's

[CKinnard]

"Nearly half [45%] of all deaths in the United States in 2012 that were caused by cardiometabolic diseases, including heart disease, stroke and type 2 diabetes, have been linked to substandard eating habits, according to a study published in the March 7 issue of JAMA and funded by the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute (NHLBI), part of the National Institutes of Health."

That's a surprise to me, because I would think the rate would be over 80%. The 20% allowing for autoimmune causes of T1D and congenital disorders of the heart and vascular system. One could argue that burst aneurysms are diet related. Many people would live a full life with many aneurysms if they did not eat crap, drink excessively, or smoke, and kept their BP low = PBWF diet!

When it comes to categorizing cause of death, I think the role of lifestyle choices is significantly blurred and misallocated. But it's been a while since I've read the methodology in depth. As an instance, motor vehicle accident deaths are categorized as .... accidents! But I don't think drunkeness, or inattention/sleep at the wheel due to sleep apnea due to obesity due to bad diet would factor a look in.

[Nobody]

That's a surprise to me, because I would think the rate would be over 80%. The 20% allowing for autoimmune causes of T1D and congenital disorders of the heart and vascular system. One could argue that burst aneurysms are diet related. Many people would live a full life with many aneurysms if they did not eat crap, drink excessively, or smoke, and kept their BP low = PBWF diet!

I knew (from a distance) a lady who died of an aneurysm. From what I heard she was cleaning the swimming pool and was found dead beside the pool. Probably early to mid 40s at the time. Left a husband and two preteen boys. They came from South Africa and so are big meat eaters (as I hear that's the norm there). Now even the sons look high overweight to obese in their early 20s. When I was in my early 20s I couldn't imagine being overweight/obese at that age. They probably have some serious health issues in front of them (like many their age) I would guess.

When it comes to categorizing cause of death, I think the role of lifestyle choices is significantly blurred and misallocated. But it's been a while since I've read the methodology in depth. As an instance, motor vehicle accident deaths are categorized as .... accidents! But I don't think drunkeness, or inattention/sleep at the wheel due to sleep apnea due to obesity due to bad diet would factor a look in.

Totally agree. So many problems could be traced back to lifestyle if the people involved in the investigation or categorisation dug a little deeper.

[CKinnard]

Yep, you are unqualifiedly right about Sth Africans being big meat eaters.....and drinkers! However, they have tended to be more active, but that's no doubt changing. I know heaps of South Africans from top to bottom of the demographic spectrum, and had a South African GP girlfriend many years ago.

I can tell you one the hardest sells is to convince them to eat less animal flesh and eat more vegetarian. They remind me of the reaction you got in Australia in the 1970s. Here's a country ranking of death rate from coronary heart disease which is probably skewed significantly by relative health care.

http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/caus ... y-country/

[Nobody]

Here's a country ranking of death rate from coronary heart disease which is probably skewed significantly by relative health care.

They appear to be the fifth highest for hypertension thought.
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/caus ... y-country/

[RhapsodyX]

A bit old (2015), but : Probability of losing 5% body weight or returning to normal weight.

The annual chance of obese patients achieving five per cent weight loss was 1 in 12 for men and 1 in 10 for women. For those people who achieved five per cent weight loss, 53 per cent regained this weight within two years and 78 percent had regained the weight within five years.

Overall, only 1,283 men and 2,245 women with a BMI of 30-35 reached their normal body weight, equivalent to an annual probability of 1 in 210 for men and 1 in 124 for women; for those with a BMI above 40, the odds increased to 1 in 1,290 for men and 1 in 677 for women with severe obesity.

The paper.

[nezumi]

So, I am participating in a research project at the moment. I have to eat the supplied food at specific times each day (30 minute window), and the diet is high in fat (~65%), but calorie controlled based on my resting metabolic rate and level of physical activity. It's interesting knowing that I do not have the freedom to grab something to eat whenever I want, but also that I am not being tempted to eat just because I am bored or seeking a distraction.

[Baalzamon]

65% fat
20% protein?
15% carb?

Sounds something like my ratio at the moment and I'm in nutritional ketosis but not full blown ketosis.
I'm having the odd banana now that is more greener than not. If they are too ripe they are too sweet for my taste buds. Heck a long black coffee can taste sweet now

[mikesbytes]

A bit old (2015), but : Probability of losing 5% body weight or returning to normal weight.

The annual chance of obese patients achieving five per cent weight loss was 1 in 12 for men and 1 in 10 for women. For those people who achieved five per cent weight loss, 53 per cent regained this weight within two years and 78 percent had regained the weight within five years.

Overall, only 1,283 men and 2,245 women with a BMI of 30-35 reached their normal body weight, equivalent to an annual probability of 1 in 210 for men and 1 in 124 for women; for those with a BMI above 40, the odds increased to 1 in 1,290 for men and 1 in 677 for women with severe obesity.

The paper.

Shocking and at the same time I'm not surprised. Its really hard to turn around a lifetime of poor choices

[RhapsodyX]

Shocking and at the same time I'm not surprised. Its really hard to turn around a lifetime of poor choices

Not to mention... it'shard to turn around when confronted by food advertising and "manufactured food" being 80+% of what is available. It's not like people are pushed to make *informed* choices.

[march83]

Heck a long black coffee can taste sweet now

I eat 90% carbs and my black coffee is predominantly sweet. I don't get the connection...

[Baalzamon]

Heck a long black coffee can taste sweet now

I eat 90% carbs and my black coffee is predominantly sweet. I don't get the connection...

I used to find black coffee bitter, or it could have just be the person making the it being a bad coffee maker

[Nobody]

Surprisingly according to the video below, the study wasn't just a wash as I though it would be.