Diet Thread

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casual_cyclist
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby casual_cyclist » Wed May 13, 2015 1:39 pm

More Victorians die from excessive salt consumption than from car accidents, study shows

VicHealth CEO Jerril Rechter said Victorians were putting themselves at risk of high blood pressure, which accounted for about half of all strokes, heart disease and chronic kidney disease deaths.

"Almost one in 20 deaths in Victoria is attributable to high salt intake - that's six times the annual road toll"
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-13/m ... ts/6465888" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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CKinnard
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Wed May 13, 2015 2:22 pm

A dodgy conclusion in the extreme. Triathletes consume high levels of salt and BP is fine.
It's not salt per se, it's going to be combined lifestyle factors. Just another nonsense headline to make the daily papers.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby casual_cyclist » Wed May 13, 2015 2:38 pm

CKinnard wrote:A dodgy conclusion in the extreme. Triathletes consume high levels of salt and BP is fine.
It's not salt per se, it's going to be combined lifestyle factors. Just another nonsense headline to make the daily papers.
I concur. This isn't media driven though. This is research from vichealth. It makes you wonder what they are spending their research dollers on.

https://www.vichealth.vic.gov.au/media- ... n-victoria" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.vichealth.vic.gov.au/media- ... te-of-salt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Following on from your correct observation about Triathletes, this research raises an important question: is high blood pressure and independent risk factor for stroke, heart disease or chronic kidney disease in the absence of any other risk factor? I think not.

I agree with you that "it's going to be combined lifestyle factors".

I wonder if vic health is up with the latest research on salt:
Experts weigh in on the new study showing sodium may not be the top adversary for blood pressure problems
oh yeah, and here is the answer to my earlier question:
The recent study, published in the American Journal of Hypertension, involved data from more than 8,000 French men and women and found that BMI, age, and dietary factors like alcohol intake were more closely related to increases in blood pressure than sodium intake. In fact, researchers even concluded that salt is “statistically insignificant” in relation to blood pressure when it comes to people without hypertension.
http://www.prevention.com/food/healthy- ... ly-thought" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Wed May 13, 2015 5:14 pm

McDougall agrees about salt.



Newsletter:
https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2008nl/aug/salt.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Wed May 13, 2015 6:21 pm

Another interesting weekly update from Potato Strong.


In it is the link to McDougall's newsletter on Eskimos which I found interesting. Not only for the article itself, but in it was the average macro-nutrient ratio of the McDougall diet and standard American diet.

McDougall - 80 : 8 : 12
American - 40 : 40 : 20
American - 48 : 36 : 25 (Earlier American diet, likely 1972, from the Kempner Rice Diet excerpt, grams diagram.)
Rice diet - 93.97 : 1.87 : 4.16 (Also from the Kempner excerpt, grams diagram in the Kempner link above.)
(carb, fat, prot)

CKinnard
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Wed May 13, 2015 10:37 pm

casual_cyclist wrote:oh yeah, and here is the answer to my earlier question:
yeah, knew I'd seen this conclusion within the last 12 mths.

I've been meeting a lot of health pros in the last 2 weeks, and it scares me the level of ignorance regarding dietary influence on our main killers, amongst GPs and specialists. Recently a younger female GP actually chipped me for upsetting one of female patients sent to me for physio, because I talked to the pt about how atherosclerosis accelerates lumbar disc degenerative disease. And this summarizes the problem with public health today. It has been hijacked by the PC brigade who let consumers drive health care delivery, at a speed they choose. Hence, GPs no longer raise the "big issues" (the term used by this particular GP) because that might upset the patient. The big issues being overweight and obesity and carp diet. Incidentally, and coincidentally, a patient I had the very next day volunteered that his GP ("the same GP") never talked to him about his obesity, but he knew it contributed dramatically to his problem. He then volunteered that she is a fatty too!!! hahahaa....couldn't stop myself from smurking all day!

So, there you go. If GPs are too PC to talk about the "BIG ISSUES" with patients, where's the driving force for lifestyle change in Australia?
Well, it's certainly not coming from public health care and our GPs!!!

And the Vic Health salt thing confirms to my mind a sentiment I won't express here because it would only get deleted.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Wed May 13, 2015 11:45 pm

CKinnard wrote:I've been meeting a lot of health pros in the last 2 weeks, and it scares me the level of ignorance regarding dietary influence on our main killers, amongst GPs and specialists.
As far as I can tell, this is normal.

MDs often let their feelings get in the way too, as you seemed to indicate in the rest of your post. The specialist I see is a vegetarian and appeared a bit irritated by my response when diet came up. Which was a bit puzzling. I suspect it might be a negative attitude toward a "my diet is better than yours". Which is not where I was going but she seemed to take it personally anyway. People are so sensitive about diet. :roll:
Anyway, I don't really need to see her again technically, but I'm staying a patient just so I can prove to her and myself than I can negate the symptoms of haemochromatosis with diet. We'll see. I should have a good idea in another 3 months.
I also noticed she'd put on a bit of weight in the ~ 4 months between visits. So like many, I don't think her diet is working too well for her.
For that matter, I sensed the nurses that drained my blood were negative toward my diet too. No wonder we have a health care crisis looming with attitudes like that.
CKinnard wrote:So, there you go. If GPs are too PC to talk about the "BIG ISSUES" with patients, where's the driving force for lifestyle change in Australia?
Well, it's certainly not coming from public health care and our GPs!!!
True, and we can't rely on the general media to fill the ignorance void. From what I've read and seen lately, I'd say if I didn't already know something, I'd be very confused thanks to them. So although there are solutions, I'm pretty sure most of the country (and the world) are going to be in a health care crisis in the coming decades. We might be able to change some, but most will probably go down with the ship, either willingly or through ignorance.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby casual_cyclist » Thu May 14, 2015 12:54 am

Nobody wrote:I also noticed she'd put on a bit of weight in the ~ 4 months between visits. So like many, I don't think her diet is working too well for her.
As a formerly obese vegetarian, I can confirm that it is very easy to gain weight and have an unhealthy diet when eating vegetarian.
Nobody wrote:Anyway, I don't really need to see her again technically, but I'm staying a patient just so I can prove to her and myself than I can negate the symptoms of haemochromatosis with diet. We'll see. I should have a good idea in another 3 months.
That reminds me, I had a general checkup- cholesterol, trigs, iron, etc. I forgot to ask for zinc, b12 and something else I have forgotten :( Anyway, I keep forgetting to pick up the results. I am posting this to remind me.
Nobody wrote:For that matter, I sensed the nurses that drained my blood were negative toward my diet too. No wonder we have a health care crisis looming with attitudes like that.
Ouch! That's really unprofessional if that's true. You maybe weren't oversensitive after seeing an ignorant doctor?
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby casual_cyclist » Thu May 14, 2015 12:59 am

CKinnard wrote:So, there you go. If GPs are too PC to talk about the "BIG ISSUES" with patients, where's the driving force for lifestyle change in Australia?
Well, it's certainly not coming from public health care and our GPs!!!
Pete Evans, David Gillespie and Sarah (rich girl hair) Wilson.

The funny thing about Pete and the ACA paleo beat up is Dr Kerryn Phelps slamming the paleo diet as a fad, unhealthy and unsustainable is that when I accidentally stumbled onto Cooking with Pete or whatever it is called, he cooked two vegetarian dishes in a row. They looked very tasty too. He can't be accused of not encouraging people to eat lots of veggies. That said, I accept the paleo baby formula with excess vitamin A is dangerous for infants. Still, the ACA beatup just made people more interested in paleo, which as we know has some health concerns.

Oh yeah, and the rich girl hair came from this: Not family-friendly language - if you're interested search for The Katering Show on Youtube
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Reason: Language in the video was reported.
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Thu May 14, 2015 8:35 am

casual_cyclist wrote:That reminds me, I had a general checkup- cholesterol, trigs, iron, etc. I forgot to ask for zinc, b12 and something else I have forgotten :( Anyway, I keep forgetting to pick up the results. I am posting this to remind me.
Nobody wrote:For that matter, I sensed the nurses that drained my blood were negative toward my diet too. No wonder we have a health care crisis looming with attitudes like that.
Ouch! That's really unprofessional if that's true. You maybe weren't oversensitive after seeing an ignorant doctor?
I don't know about unprofessional, just a personal bias and an in/out group problem. Probably right about being oversensitive. On the most recent visit the nurse had a go at me about not having lunch before I came for a 1:30pm appointment. So I don't know when I was supposed to eat it since 1pm is a normal lunch time for many and I was traveling. She suggested I eat the lunch provided there (already knowing my diet) but I said the sandwiches were four kinds of meat (egg, chicken, roast beef and cheese with token carrot). A photo of the suggested lunch below. Anyway, not a big deal. Just the usual things I face regularly at work, home etc. Like I've said before, the hardest thing about my diet is other people's disapproval. Not the food itself.
Image

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby casual_cyclist » Thu May 14, 2015 10:23 am

Nobody wrote:I don't know about unprofessional, just a personal bias and an in/out group problem. Probably right about being oversensitive. On the most recent visit the nurse had a go at me about not having lunch before I came for a 1:30pm appointment. So I don't know when I was supposed to eat it since 1pm is a normal lunch time for many and I was traveling. She suggested I eat the lunch provided there (already knowing my diet) but I said the sandwiches were four kinds of meat (egg, chicken, roast beef and cheese with token carrot). A photo of the suggested lunch below. Anyway, not a big deal. Just the usual things I face regularly at work, home etc. Like I've said before, the hardest thing about my diet is other people's disapproval. Not the food itself.
Image
Blerg! That looks disgusting. Maybe she was concerned that you hadn't eaten lunch because you are looking undernourished... compared to the rest of her patients! :lol:
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby warthog1 » Thu May 14, 2015 11:59 am

I'm not excusing anyone's attitudes toward diet. However maybe it is explained a bit by food and the eating of it traditionally being a social activity. By excluding many foods perhaps they also subconsciously see exclusion from the social norm :?
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Thu May 14, 2015 12:51 pm

warthog1 wrote:However maybe it is explained a bit by food and the eating of it traditionally being a social activity. By excluding many foods perhaps they also subconsciously see exclusion from the social norm :?
Probably. But long term health is obviously more important to me than adhering to social norms. I know with my family that if I started to eat a little bit of meat to fit in, I would have failed and eventually be expected to eat everything. A colleague at work fell into that trap as I've mentioned before. He could never get the last 5Kg off with a mainly plant based diet and is at least 10Kg heavier than me, although shorter. More importantly, his waist is in the 80s (which is still better than 90cm +) where mine is 73.5cm.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby warthog1 » Thu May 14, 2015 1:28 pm

Nobody wrote:Probably. But long term health is obviously more important to me than adhering to social norms.
I'm just indulging in a little amateur group psychology, I know you are concentrating on your health. Crikey some people must be giving you the shizens though.
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Thu May 14, 2015 1:59 pm

casual_cyclist wrote:Blerg! That looks disgusting. Maybe she was concerned that you hadn't eaten lunch because you are looking undernourished... compared to the rest of her patients! :lol:
Could be. :) Although the official line is supposed to be preventing a person from fainting after 450ml of blood is taken.

But I look out of place where ever I go these days (which can be another down side). I get watched and/or stared at a lot, where I used to be fairly invisible. Some think I'm a homo, some think I may have a serious illness, some think I may be very fit. None of it is true.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby casual_cyclist » Thu May 14, 2015 4:21 pm

Nobody wrote:
casual_cyclist wrote:Blerg! That looks disgusting. Maybe she was concerned that you hadn't eaten lunch because you are looking undernourished... compared to the rest of her patients! :lol:
Could be. :) Although the official line is supposed to be preventing a person from fainting after 450ml of blood is taken.
Fair enough I guess.
Nobody wrote:But I look out of place where ever I go these days (which can be another down side). I get watched and/or stared at a lot, where I used to be fairly invisible. Some think I'm a homo, some think I may have a serious illness, some think I may be very fit. None of it is true.
People have no concept of "normal" anymore because they never see it. I have been told I am "too skinny" even though I am still overweight (in my opinion, waist still too big and 'overweight' according to BMI).
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby piledhigher » Thu May 14, 2015 11:23 pm

casual_cyclist wrote: As a formerly obese vegetarian, I can confirm that it is very easy to gain weight and have an unhealthy diet when eating vegetarian.
Thought of this comment today when my Indian heritage workmate was talking about his wife's 25kg weight gain as a religiously motivated vegetarian. Vegetarianism is not a panacea for weight loss when you have tools like ghee at your disposal.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Thu May 14, 2015 11:53 pm

Being vegan too is no guarantee of reaching or sustaining healthy weight.
Eat enough bananas, dates, pasta, potatoes, etc and you will get fat.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby casual_cyclist » Fri May 15, 2015 3:07 am

CKinnard wrote:Being vegan too is no guarantee of reaching or sustaining healthy weight.
Eat enough bananas, dates, pasta, potatoes, etc and you will get fat.
Datorate with added refined sugar anyone? :wink:
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby warthog1 » Fri May 15, 2015 3:41 pm

I had a crack at this last night cooked for the family. Everyone ate it though the girls whinged a bit.

Absolutely essential ingredients
400g red lentils
2 tsps turmeric
2 knobs unsalted butter
2 tsps cumin seeds
1 small onion, finely chopped
2-3 cloves garlic, finely sliced
1-2 fresh green chillies, finely sliced (remove seeds if you want to keep the heat down)
Optional (recommended) extras
1 tsp garam masala
1 tsp ground coriander
thumb-sized piece of fresh ginger, finely grated
2-3 tomatoes, chopped small


Place the lentils in a pan and cover with enough cold water to come to around two inches above their surface. Bring to the boil (skim off any scum that rises to the top), and reduce to a simmer. Stir in the turmeric and a generous knob of butter. Cover and leave to cook gently.
In a small frying pan, dry-fry the cumin seeds over a medium heat until toasted and fragrant (no more than a couple of minutes). Remove from the pan and set to one side.
Melt a second knob of butter in the same frying pan and gently fry the chopped garlic, onion, chillies and the grated ginger and tomatoes, if you’re using them. Once the garlic is golden, mix in the toasted cumin seeds and, if using, the garam masala and ground coriander. Remove from the heat until the lentils are completely softened.
Give the lentils a good stir. They should have the consistency of porridge – thicker than soup and looser than houmous. Add more water as necessary (you will be surprised how thick they can get over just a couple of extra minutes cooking), and mix in your aromatic fried mixture.
Season to taste, then serve on its own, topped with coriander, or with a side of basmati rice and greens.
So simple, so quick, so sustaining; heaven!

Read more at http://www.jamieoliver.com/news-and-fea ... chP1bO9.99" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


I cooked some beans and broccoli as a side also. Still got heaps left over as I doubled the quantities. Used olive oil instead of butter. Should be pretty healthy [emoji123]
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby singlespeedscott » Fri May 15, 2015 7:02 pm

Sounds similar to the lentil dish I have been serving up to the wife and family for the lst 15 years.

Red lentils are the easiest of the lentils to prepare but I prefer to rinse them off with cold water through sieve before cooking them. It helps to remove the starch.

Also at the end I usually tip a packet of washed baby spinach on the top of the lentils and cook them until they have wilted.

On the side I fry up the cumin seeds and then some onion and garlic until they are soft. I then fry some chilli and tumeric in the onion mix for a another minute. Next tip a can of organic plain diced tomatoes and cook it all up until its reduced. After it's cooked stir the whole lot through the lentils and greens. Serve it up with Basmati rice and some papadums. Yum
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Fri May 15, 2015 7:09 pm

Wartie, sounds like a classic Dahl recipe. Dahl is just Indian for stew. In the south where it's hot, they add more water so it's like a soup.
In the cold north, it's more thick and energy rich. There's heaps of variations - you can add coconut cream, sultanas, lots of vege, etc.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby toolonglegs » Fri May 15, 2015 7:14 pm

Yeah I have similar once or twice a week... A lot more spices in there though. Usually no oil at at all... Not quite as yummy without.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby rapunzel » Fri May 15, 2015 7:17 pm

I confess to perusing this thread due to general interest in nutrition.
Nobody wrote:I need to be in control of my diet if I want to get to my goals.
Given what you post in this thread, you appear to spend a lot of time and effort in controlling your diet. But I haven't seen mention of your goals (or I've missed them somewhere). Out of curiosity... care to share? Do you mean cycling training goals?

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Fri May 15, 2015 8:57 pm

This thread is an offshoot of the "BNA losers club - 2015" after some complaints of too many diet posts.

The not too ambitious goal in this post. Mainly as I didn't know how it would go. Last posted results here. But I got the Jan starting weight wrong. It should have been 65.5Kg.

My cycling goals are health driven and so my diet goals are health driven rather than cycling driven. At the moment my primary goals are to get my cholesterol, blood pressure and blood test results as good as possible. Everything else is a side effect.
Last edited by Nobody on Fri May 15, 2015 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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