Low Carohydrate High Fat diet, your thoughts

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Constantheadwind
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Re: Low Carohydrate High Fat diet, your thoughts

Postby Constantheadwind » Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:51 pm

True that, only been doing it short term & aware of the nutritional deficit. Mostly eat oat bran for brekky pre LCHF experiment.

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casual_cyclist
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Re: Low Carohydrate High Fat diet, your thoughts

Postby casual_cyclist » Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:12 pm

Constantheadwind wrote:True that, only been doing it short term & aware of the nutritional deficit. Mostly eat oat bran for brekky pre LCHF experiment.
Not meant to be a criticism. I think it is important that we educate each other as we find out more about nutrition. In the past I have been a low vegetable and no fruit consuming vegetarian. Eating like that for an extended period of time made me sick. It would be good if we could help you increase your veg consumption without increasing your carbs. There are lots of non-carby vegetables that can be included in meals. They still have essential vitamins and minerals but not a lot of calories or carbs. That should fit right into your healthy eating pattern.
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CKinnard
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Re: Low Carohydrate High Fat diet, your thoughts

Postby CKinnard » Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:31 pm

casual_cyclist wrote:
Constantheadwind wrote:Not this little black duck. I guess we're all different. From the satiating point at least, fat holds off my hunger pangs far far longer than any veg. Glucose control is a different story of course. A butter coffee can keep away my hunger for 1/2 a day. A bunch of celery would never do that for me. I'd need to constantly graze & I'd probably be belching & backfiring like a bloke at work does, he animal protein & fat restricts. He lost a lot of weight but his insides aren't at peace.
I think there are a lot of misconceptions about vegetable consumption. I eat lots of veggies without restricting fat, belching or farting my way around the office ;-)

For example, for breakfast I might eat a savoury sweet potato "pudding" made from boiled sweet potato and coconut milk. For dinner last night I ate pasta with heaps of extra veg in a tomato based pasta sauce. The extra veg included green beans, peas and broccoli. I eat it because I like it. It was delicious!

My question to you if you don't eat veggies is, where do you get your nutrition? There are not many essential vitamins and minerals in a butter coffee.
Hey CC, potatoes and even pumpkin are classified as starchy carbohydrates.
I should qualify when I talk about vegetables, I am talking mainly about fibrous carbohydrates, which are much denser in micronutritents and have about 35-40% of the Calories of potato via volume.
They also don't spike insulin like potato does.

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mikedufty
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Re: Low Carohydrate High Fat diet, your thoughts

Postby mikedufty » Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:38 pm

casual_cyclist wrote: My advice is whatever eating pattern you choose to follow, smash the veggies. They are very good for you and should be the foundation for any healthy eating plan.
Have you got any good references to studies to back that up? Genuine question, it seems likely that at least some amount of vegies are good for you, but you see a lot of claims of their importance and not much explanation of how and why they are good.

I figure they taste good and are unlikely to be bad so I eat plenty, but would like to know more. I have seen tables of nutrient content that suggest most vegies don't actually have a lot, and you'd be better off eating organ meats, but I find vegies more appetising.

Nobody
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Re: Low Carohydrate High Fat diet, your thoughts

Postby Nobody » Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:24 pm

mikedufty wrote:Have you got any good references to studies to back that up? Genuine question, it seems likely that at least some amount of vegies are good for you, but you see a lot of claims of their importance and not much explanation of how and why they are good.

I figure they taste good and are unlikely to be bad so I eat plenty, but would like to know more. I have seen tables of nutrient content that suggest most vegies don't actually have a lot, and you'd be better off eating organ meats, but I find vegies more appetising.
Probably a good idea to start here.

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mikedufty
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Re: Low Carohydrate High Fat diet, your thoughts

Postby mikedufty » Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:59 pm

Anything specific? seems to all links to videos, and from the descriptions none sound like they are going to have specific evidence for lots of vegies being good. Various vague stuff about antioxidants and guidelines this, may that.

I've read that the 5 serves a day guideline was based on a study finding people eating 5 serves a week were healthier than those with less, seems like extreme extrapolation, but I haven't checked if it's true.

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casual_cyclist
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Re: Low Carohydrate High Fat diet, your thoughts

Postby casual_cyclist » Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:08 pm

mikedufty wrote:
casual_cyclist wrote: My advice is whatever eating pattern you choose to follow, smash the veggies. They are very good for you and should be the foundation for any healthy eating plan.
Have you got any good references to studies to back that up? Genuine question, it seems likely that at least some amount of vegies are good for you, but you see a lot of claims of their importance and not much explanation of how and why they are good.

I figure they taste good and are unlikely to be bad so I eat plenty, but would like to know more. I have seen tables of nutrient content that suggest most vegies don't actually have a lot, and you'd be better off eating organ meats, but I find vegies more appetising.
Yeah, fair question. The 2 and 5 campaign has been around so long, we don't question it anymore. We should! It wasn't science based.

So, to the science. Harvard has a great summary of the research here:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionso ... nd-fruits/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There is another review by two researchers working in public health. The review found that for all cause mortality:
There was a dose-response relation between consumption of fruit and vegetables and decreasing risk of all cause mortality at consumption below five servings a day, but the risk did not decrease further with five or more servings a day. Compared with people who had no daily consumption of fruit and vegetables, the estimated hazard ratios of all cause mortality were 0.92 (95% confidence interval 0.90 to 0.95) for one serving/day of fruit and vegetables, 0.85 (0.81 to 0.90) for two servings/day, 0.79 (0.73 to 0.86) for three servings/day, 0.76 (0.69 to 0.83) for four servings/day, 0.74 (0.66 to 0.82) for five servings/day, and 0.74 (0.65 to 0.82) for six or more servings/day.
and concluded
This meta-analysis provides further evidence that higher consumption of fruit and vegetables is associated with a lower risk of mortality from all causes, particularly from cardiovascular diseases. The results support current recommendations to increase consumption to promote health and overall longevity.
http://www.bmj.com/content/349/bmj.g4490" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I could go on, but I don't really think that I can do better than this review: http://www.pbhfoundation.org/pdfs/about ... Review.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Even though it is published by 'Produce for Better Health Foundation', it reads like a very honest and straightfoward review of the science.
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casual_cyclist
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Re: Low Carohydrate High Fat diet, your thoughts

Postby casual_cyclist » Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:20 pm

CKinnard wrote:
casual_cyclist wrote:
Constantheadwind wrote:Not this little black duck. I guess we're all different. From the satiating point at least, fat holds off my hunger pangs far far longer than any veg. Glucose control is a different story of course. A butter coffee can keep away my hunger for 1/2 a day. A bunch of celery would never do that for me. I'd need to constantly graze & I'd probably be belching & backfiring like a bloke at work does, he animal protein & fat restricts. He lost a lot of weight but his insides aren't at peace.
I think there are a lot of misconceptions about vegetable consumption. I eat lots of veggies without restricting fat, belching or farting my way around the office ;-)
For example, for breakfast I might eat a savoury sweet potato "pudding" made from boiled sweet potato and coconut milk. For dinner last night I ate pasta with heaps of extra veg in a tomato based pasta sauce. The extra veg included green beans, peas and broccoli. I eat it because I like it. It was delicious!

My question to you if you don't eat veggies is, where do you get your nutrition? There are not many essential vitamins and minerals in a butter coffee.
Hey CC, potatoes and even pumpkin are classified as starchy carbohydrates.
I should qualify when I talk about vegetables, I am talking mainly about fibrous carbohydrates, which are much denser in micronutritents and have about 35-40% of the Calories of potato via volume.
They also don't spike insulin like potato does.
Ah yes. My point was that you don't necessarily have to go low fat to eat more veg. I didn't think Constantheadwind comparing celery to butter coffee was very fair, which is why I raised sweet potato and coconut milk, which is somethign I eat. I think they are more comparable.

I know sweet potatoes are considered a starchy carb, which some avoid. Personally I think you can do a lot worse.
Sweet potatoes contain a wealth of orange-hued carotenoid pigments. In countries throughout Africa, in India and in the Caribbean, sweet potatoes have been shown to be a highly effective way of providing school age children with sizable amounts of their daily vitamin A. In some studies, sweet potatoes have been shown to be a better source of bioavailable beta-carotene than green leafy vegetables. Because sweet potatoes are available in many countries on a virtual year-round basis, their ability to provide us with a key antioxidant like beta-carotene makes them a standout antioxidant food.
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... ce&dbid=64" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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durianrider
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Re: Low Carohydrate High Fat diet, your thoughts

Postby durianrider » Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:59 am

Peter Attia claims to be 'ultra fit' yet he struggles to hit 220w for 10mins as a 100kg cyclist on the ergo LOL! Im 65kg can hold 287w for an hour.

Gary Taubes constantly battles the bulge. At least he admits it.

Tim Noakes recently diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. Dr Barnard tried to convince him to try his high carb low fat diet but Noakes said 'I love my bacon and eggs too much, sorry'.

Phinney is as crooked as a bent spoke. He claims he has the 'ultra diet' but never gives out any real numbers or stats. Peter Attia did and became the laughing stock of the clued up sports nutritionists dealing with cyclists. They looked at his lab wattage and laughed out loud. I did too.

Anyone with a power meter can quickly debunk any diet. I respect Attia for making his poor wattage results public. Sad thing is, those with no knowledge of watts per kgs might think he is actually fit. Well he would be if he was an 85 year old vet rider.

Ive trained with hundreds of pro riders in the last decade during TDU. They all carb up. Even that AG2R rider who battles his weight constantly from thrashing his metabolism on this low carb gigs, he still fuels on race day with carbs. If only he ate like a Kenyan he would bloody dominate the classics.

Noakes even had the cheek to say that its 'impossible to run out of carbs aka bonk and all that happens it the legs are not trained enough'. I have the direct email from him. The guy is a fruit loop. I can drop any pro on earth who rides over 30 000km a year and on all the extras from the team doctor, just cut their carb intake for 2 days and I will smash them in any race. That debunks Noakes theory of 'they havent done enough miles...'. lol!

Ive done PED's and can speak from first hand experience that sugars and water are more important than any doping program. Without hydration and sufficient muscle glycogen, no drugs will let that rider really shine.

Too many noobs with no power meters and no idea leading those with also no idea.

If anyone knows a low carb athlete who wants to race me in a marathon or a hill climb TT please let me know. $50 000 prize money. They can take any doping product they want. The only condition is they have to be in ketosis the entire event and we monitor their diet & training for 7 days before the event. My email is durianriders@gmail.com and put 'Low carb 50k' as the subject heading.
Vegan since 2001.

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foo on patrol
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Re: Low Carohydrate High Fat diet, your thoughts

Postby foo on patrol » Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:55 pm

Strange how your name never crops up in any of the big races or teams or anything of note! :roll:

Foo
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twizzle
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Re: Low Carohydrate High Fat diet, your thoughts

Postby twizzle » Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:11 pm

A guy by the name of Bruce wrote :
Nutritional theory is a mine-field, but the more I research it, the more I agree with Gary Taubes. It is really just a system of personal beliefs and untested hypotheses, given a veneer of scientific respectability, when in actual fact it’s more like a religion – replete with irrational fanatics, money-making frauds and devout lemming-like followers. But each to their own I suppose, the thing that really gets my goat is this simple perpetuation of a culture in which bullsh*t trumps evidence and science loses.
And goodbye.
I ride, therefore I am. But don't ride into harm's way.
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casual_cyclist
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Re: Low Carohydrate High Fat diet, your thoughts

Postby casual_cyclist » Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:27 pm

durianrider wrote:The guy is a fruit loop.
Coming from you, I'll take that as a comment. :lol:
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CKinnard
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Re: Low Carohydrate High Fat diet, your thoughts

Postby CKinnard » Sun Apr 19, 2015 9:23 pm

twizzle wrote:A guy by the name of Bruce wrote :
Nutritional theory is a mine-field, but the more I research it, the more I agree with Gary Taubes. It is really just a system of personal beliefs and untested hypotheses, given a veneer of scientific respectability, when in actual fact it’s more like a religion – replete with irrational fanatics, money-making frauds and devout lemming-like followers. But each to their own I suppose, the thing that really gets my goat is this simple perpetuation of a culture in which bullsh*t trumps evidence and science loses.
And goodbye.
Let Gary Taube provide a few longitudinal studies of 10's of thousands following a particular dietary philosophy, as the Seventh Day Adventists have done.

Until then, he is an "irrational fanatic pushing untested hypotheses swallowed by lemming like followers"!

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