Sugar its like a poison

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matagi
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Re: Sugar its like a poison

Postby matagi » Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:18 pm

zill wrote:
matagi wrote: I refuse to buy my fresh produce from supermarkets

Where do you buy your fresh produce then? I actually do buy all my foods from the supermarket but only via the internet and gets it delivered. Been doing it for nearly 6 months and haven't been tempted to click on a temptation food yet.
I'm in Melbourne, so on Saturdays I am able to go to the Queen Victoria Markets and there are also a couple of very good farmers markets in my area.

Actually, I forgot, I do buy one other thing at the supermarket and that's Lindt 90% chocolate, however last month I found out there is a chocolate maker at one of the farmers markets I go to who does a 90% dark chocolate so even buying my chocolate from the supermarket may soon be a thing of the past.

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Re: Sugar its like a poison

Postby Xplora » Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:37 pm

Nobody wrote:No added salt tomato paste is effectively tomato sauce without the sugar, salt and food acids.
And that is not going on my damn pie for any reason.

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Re: Sugar its like a poison

Postby queequeg » Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:01 pm

Xplora wrote:
Nobody wrote:No added salt tomato paste is effectively tomato sauce without the sugar, salt and food acids.
And that is not going on my damn pie for any reason.
I'm with Xplora on this. The sauce is the least of my worries. There's nothing nicer than a good meat pie smothered in sauce....I'm drooling just thinking about it.
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Re: Sugar its like a poison

Postby mikesbytes » Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:28 pm

My comment about the sauce is not about whether its bad for you or not, its about how the food manufacturers are lacing everything with sugar.
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Sugar its like a poison

Postby zill » Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:32 pm

mikesbytes wrote:My comment about the sauce is not about whether its bad for you or not, its about how the food manufacturers are lacing everything with sugar.
Mikebytes, just wondering I think I remember you were pretty healthy with less than 10% body fat? If so why are you so concerned about sugar?

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Re: Sugar its like a poison

Postby mikesbytes » Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:03 am

Its more a concern about about the general health of Australia
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Sugar its like a poison

Postby Nobody » Fri Sep 18, 2015 8:11 am

On TV at 8:30pm Sunday night in Sydney on channel 10 is "Jamie Oliver's Sugar Rush".
Last edited by Nobody on Fri Sep 18, 2015 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sugar its like a poison

Postby mikesbytes » Fri Sep 18, 2015 8:27 am

Nobody wrote:On TV at 8:30pm Sunday night in Sydney is "Jamie Oliver's Sugar Rush".
SBS? if so it seems that SBS is doing a series of independent programs on the same topic
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Sugar its like a poison

Postby Nobody » Fri Sep 18, 2015 8:40 am

Sorry, channel 10. Left out while editing to make easier to read. Edited again now.

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Re: Sugar its like a poison

Postby Xplora » Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:10 am

mikesbytes wrote:Its more a concern about about the general health of Australia
I am not really into the "whole foods" fad, but I am guessing I am actually a lot closer to eating like that than some. The simple reality is that you have to prepare food yourself to have control over the process, and you have to have some discipline. Every time I hear "my one weakness is..." I roll my eyes inside, because if you recognise why you are fat, and you want to be thinner, you really don't have much of an excuse! Live well, and work with the consequences. Or live well another way, and work with the consequences. Just don't put things on the "to do" list, like you need something to whine about to validate your feelings of suffering. /rant off. :lol:

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Re: Sugar its like a poison

Postby Nobody » Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:59 pm

Xplora wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:Its more a concern about about the general health of Australia
I am not really into the "whole foods" fad...
If you are talking about whole food plant based (WFPB) it's hardly a fad. Since it prevents or reverses many first world chronic diseases. Just because it's becoming more popular as the knowledge of the science spreads, doesn't make it a fad either. Giving up smoking would have likely been seen as a fad in the '50s.

As for weight control, it's the most successful at keeping the weight off for more than 5 years within the general population. With diets in general, less than 1% of people are successful in keeping the weight off for that length of time. You might be currently successful at keeping the weight off with exercise so far, but not everyone is. Especially as they get older. Most middle aged people working full time and raising a family don't have the time or health to do 300Km a week to out ride some of the effects of a poor diet. Easier and better for them to optimize their diet.

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Re: Sugar its like a poison

Postby Xplora » Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:37 pm

I think you saw the word fad and missed everything else I've said :lol:

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Re: Sugar its like a poison

Postby Bluejay87 » Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:44 pm

My wife has gone vegan and I'm definitely now seeing the health benefit of plant based diets. Much much harder to put on weight and you are sure to get all your other nutrients.

Was sceptical at first especially in regards to protein intake but it soon became clear that humans 1) don't need as much protein as commonly claimed and 2) you can get enough through alternative sources.

Note that I still eat animal products when it is inconvenient not to but it isn't all that often these days. I'm a flexitarian.

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Re: Sugar its like a poison

Postby Nobody » Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:07 pm

Xplora wrote:I think you saw the word fad and missed everything else I've said :lol:
I didn't miss it. I agree with much of what you said. Maybe I should have mentioned that.

There are plenty of fad and/or bogus diets out there, but grouping WFPB with them negates its real value and broad scientific backing. Nothing personal, just trying to help the inexperienced who might get the impression that WFPB is another dead end, short term diet. :)

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Re: Sugar its like a poison

Postby zill » Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:17 pm

Bluejay87 wrote:My wife has gone vegan and I'm definitely now seeing the health benefit of plant based diets. Much much harder to put on weight and you are sure to get all your other nutrients.

Was sceptical at first especially in regards to protein intake but it soon became clear that humans 1) don't need as much protein as commonly claimed and 2) you can get enough through alternative sources.

Note that I still eat animal products when it is inconvenient not to but it isn't all that often these days. I'm a flexitarian.

What's this got to do with sugar?

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Re: Sugar its like a poison

Postby Bluejay87 » Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:21 pm

Deleted

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Re: Sugar its like a poison

Postby Xplora » Sun Sep 20, 2015 12:19 am

Nobody wrote:
Xplora wrote:I think you saw the word fad and missed everything else I've said :lol:
I didn't miss it. I agree with much of what you said. Maybe I should have mentioned that.

There are plenty of fad and/or bogus diets out there, but grouping WFPB with them negates its real value and broad scientific backing. Nothing personal, just trying to help the inexperienced who might get the impression that WFPB is another dead end, short term diet. :)
I'm getting older... everything that is less than 20 years old without a truckload of scientific evidence that "I" am familiar with is a fad to me :lol: Anything that is new sucks :mrgreen:

I guess my point is that if you are eating "well" you are probably doing a bunch of this stuff anyway. That's the thing about the best and the ideal... doesn't matter what you call it, it's still the best. Now, I've got to work out how to survive a 250km ride on 4 hours sleep.

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Re: Sugar its like a poison

Postby Nobody » Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:35 am

Xplora wrote:I'm getting older... everything that is less than 20 years old without a truckload of scientific evidence that "I" am familiar with is a fad to me :lol: Anything that is new sucks :mrgreen:
Reversing first-world chronic illnesses with a plant based diet may be new to you and I and almost all medical doctors. But it's far from new since Kempner started doing it with great success in 1939.
It's mainly due to the medical system's bias of medicine_and_procedures over anything else that is the main reason why doctors don't know about it. They get minimal training on diet and just think they know about it. The problem is that their patients treat them as an authority on diet.
Xplora wrote:I guess my point is that if you are eating "well" you are probably doing a bunch of this stuff anyway.
A WFPB diet is more defined by what you exclude than include and that moderation kills to those genetically predisposed. Exclusions include all animal products, processed foods, all oils, sugar and in some cases a reduction in salt.


Anyway, I'll be interested to see the TV program tonight on channel 10 (Sydney) on sugar.

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Re: Sugar its like a poison

Postby Nobody » Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:58 pm

OK, so I saw "Jamie Oliver's Sugar Rush". The focus on sugar alone masked what I thought the the real message was. That of food industries versus people's health and the need for governments to regulate.

There was one glaring error which is that sugar causes type two diabetes. It does so only indirectly as excess sugar contributes to obesity and that obesity contributes to the diabetes. Dietary fat is the main culprit for type two diabetes.
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/what-ca ... esistance/
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-spi ... -diabetes/
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/diabete ... -toxicity/
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/29/8/1777.full" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Sugar its like a poison

Postby RhapsodyX » Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:16 pm

Nobody wrote:Dietary fat is the main culprit for type two diabetes.
Can you back that up with some actual research that showed statistical significance? Because, as far as I can tell, this statement is not valid.

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Re: Sugar its like a poison

Postby RhapsodyX » Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:10 pm

RhapsodyX wrote:
Nobody wrote:Dietary fat is the main culprit for type two diabetes.
Can you back that up with some actual research that showed statistical significance? Because, as far as I can tell, this statement is not valid.
Mechanisms of Insulin Resistance in Humans and Possible Links with Inflammation
The only in-depth investigation I have found after a fair bit of searching. It's fairly involved, but an interesting read. But it's also ten years old, so perhaps not "state of the art".

A bit "chicken and egg" as well - I think they are saying that getting fat makes you get fatter. By overloading of the "adipose depot" (with excess food energy), it puts fat storage into places they aren't supposed to be (ie., the liver)... which then promotes insulin resistance which puts fat storage into places they aren't supposed to be. Moral of the story : don't get fat to start with.

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Re: Sugar its like a poison

Postby Nobody » Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:09 pm

Nobody wrote:
Mulger bill wrote:
HappyHumber wrote:Too much life eventually kills ya too.
This.
I suppose the next question would be, how many "good" years do you want? I've heard that a good diet can add 8 years* to the average lifespan. If this is true then you may be adding 5 more good years before you have significant problems that makes your life less than optimal.
However, if the answer is "As long as my current diet lets me." then don't let me stand in your way.

*Please don't press on the specifics of this lifespan difference, because I don't know if I could find the data easily now. But we are talking about a lot more than 1 or 2 years for a change to the currently known optimal diet for humans (WFPB of fat=10:prot=10:carb=80).
Found it. 14 years is the claim. Even half that would be worth the effort IMO.

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Re: Sugar its like a poison

Postby mikesbytes » Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:34 am

All the people I know who are type2 are carrying a lot of excess weight. It wouldn't surprise me if most type2 people are carrying a significant level of excess weight.
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Sugar its like a poison

Postby RhapsodyX » Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:00 pm

mikesbytes wrote:All the people I know who are type2 are carrying a lot of excess weight. It wouldn't surprise me if most type2 people are carrying a significant level of excess weight.
I'm trying to find the papers, but there are references that (at a population level) keeping BMI under 25 reduces the chances of Type 2 by over 90%. Type 2 is also associated with high Glycemic Load foods.

Anyone up for some sports gels when cycling? My first AG Fondo I used eight gels in four hours (as per recommendations on the packaging - one gel every 20 - 30 minutes) and bonked 15km before the end. This year I used no gels, I had one bidon of SuperStarch (slow absorption), my total carb intake was ~ 36gm (18gm before, 18gm during) - I finished in 3:26, no bonk. Simple sugars suck.

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Re: Sugar its like a poison

Postby mikesbytes » Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:27 pm

It doesn't get more evil than energy gels. Thankfully I only take a few every year
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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