Biphasic sleep

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zill
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Biphasic sleep

Postby zill » Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:32 pm

As a child, I had no trouble getting to sleep and often slept all through the night getting my 8 hours worth or more. It was great!

However, in my late twenties, had more and more trouble getting the required full (without a break) 8 hours of sleep (and not for reasons such as work). Recently, what I am experiencing is something strange but very effective in terms of not feeling tired for the rest of the day. That is falling asleep at midnight for about 4 hours, wake up and have breakfast then go back to sleep for another 4 hours or so. At first, I was scared that this was very bad and really wanted to make an effort to reverse this cycle. However, after searching the internet actually found that this was a natural phenomena and actually the way it should be! Note that I am lucky to not have work early in the morning so able to do this. I usually feel really good sleeping this way and never feel tired during the day - and don't feel the need for coffee after the second sleep. It even feels better than sleeping 8 hours straight which does happen on very rare occasions these days. However, I cannot claim to sleep like this every day as sometimes, I might get 6 hours of sleep straight but then not able to fully sleep afterwards, as a result feeling very bad and sleepy throughout the day even after having coffee. I will then have the need for naps as well throughout the day.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16964783" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://slumberwise.com/science/your-anc ... -like-you/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thoughts and comments?

fat and old
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Re: Biphasic sleep

Postby fat and old » Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:39 pm

I like a man who'll try anything without a shred of inhibition re other people's thoughts :D Good onya Zill

On topic...I now have to get up at 4 every morning to take a wiz. Getting old sucks :lol:

zill
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Re: Biphasic sleep

Postby zill » Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:55 pm

fat and old wrote:
On topic...I now have to get up at 4 every morning to take a wiz. Getting old sucks :lol:

Happens to me sometimes as well. How long does it take you to get to sleep again?

Bluejay87
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Re: Biphasic sleep

Postby Bluejay87 » Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:07 pm

Another great random Zill thread.

Do you need the breakfast to fall back asleep?

zill
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Re: Biphasic sleep

Postby zill » Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:19 pm

Bluejay87 wrote:Another great random Zill thread.

Do you need the breakfast to fall back asleep?
What is so random about it? It's startling if you ask me given also that people have done research on it.

Trying to lose weight at the moment so often feeling hungry after waking up at 4am. So yes, otherwise, I will have the feeling of hunger. Sometimes though after a larger dinner don't feel the need for breakfast so early. Will just lie in bed for maybe up to an hour before sleeping again.

Bluejay87
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Re: Biphasic sleep

Postby Bluejay87 » Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:29 pm

How's the weight loss going? You must be starving yourself if you are hungry at 4am.

zill
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Re: Biphasic sleep

Postby zill » Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:31 pm

Not good to be honest. Lost 3kg in 13 weeks by not trying to starve myself. So may have to start starving myself to some extent.

fat and old
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Re: Biphasic sleep

Postby fat and old » Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:30 pm

zill wrote:
fat and old wrote:
On topic...I now have to get up at 4 every morning to take a wiz. Getting old sucks :lol:

Happens to me sometimes as well. How long does it take you to get to sleep again?
Depends on whether my wife is awake or not......

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foo on patrol
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Re: Biphasic sleep

Postby foo on patrol » Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:46 pm

I don't know what 6hrs continuous sleep is? 2hrs is my limit and has been this way for close to 20yrs, hence the grumpy part.

Go and do a sleep study. It costs nothing, just get a referral from ya Dr.

Foo
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zill
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Re: Biphasic sleep

Postby zill » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:12 pm

zill wrote:Not good to be honest. Lost 3kg in 13 weeks by not trying to starve myself. So may have to start starving myself to some extent.
In fact, I am now solely going to concentrate on losing weight rather than training for power which is easy for me. Losing weight on the other hand is very hard. Will just be commuting for now plus walks and a weekend ride. It's all going to be about daily calorie deficits. My homework for the next few months is just to be constantly hungry which sounds horrible but at least there isn't the pressure of cycling. After losing the weight, I will then start to train properly for cycling.

zill
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Re: Biphasic sleep

Postby zill » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:13 pm

foo on patrol wrote:I don't know what 6hrs continuous sleep is? 2hrs is my limit and has been this way for close to 20yrs, hence the grumpy part.

Go and do a sleep study. It costs nothing, just get a referral from ya Dr.

Foo
You only sleep 2 hours at a time? How long break do you get before getting to sleep again?

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kb
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Re: Biphasic sleep

Postby kb » Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:13 am

zill wrote:
zill wrote:Not good to be honest. Lost 3kg in 13 weeks by not trying to starve myself. So may have to start starving myself to some extent.
In fact, I am now solely going to concentrate on losing weight rather than training for power which is easy for me. Losing weight on the other hand is very hard. Will just be commuting for now plus walks and a weekend ride. It's all going to be about daily calorie deficits. My homework for the next few months is just to be constantly hungry which sounds horrible but at least there isn't the pressure of cycling. After losing the weight, I will then start to train properly for cycling.
I'd add some weights or other strength work too.
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foo on patrol
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Re: Biphasic sleep

Postby foo on patrol » Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:50 am

zill wrote:
foo on patrol wrote:I don't know what 6hrs continuous sleep is? 2hrs is my limit and has been this way for close to 20yrs, hence the grumpy part.

Go and do a sleep study. It costs nothing, just get a referral from ya Dr.

Foo
You only sleep 2 hours at a time? How long break do you get before getting to sleep again?
I go back to sleep again within 5-15mins.

Some nights I only get 4-5hrs total.

Foo
I don't suffer fools easily and so long as you have done your best,you should have no regrets.
Goal 6000km

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ValleyForge
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Re: Biphasic sleep

Postby ValleyForge » Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:10 pm

Bluejay87 wrote:Another great random Zill thread.
But I can't look away, even though I know the script.
Ha ha ha! Cookies on dowels.

fat and old
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Re: Biphasic sleep

Postby fat and old » Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:07 pm

kb wrote:
zill wrote:
zill wrote:Not good to be honest. Lost 3kg in 13 weeks by not trying to starve myself. So may have to start starving myself to some extent.
In fact, I am now solely going to concentrate on losing weight rather than training for power which is easy for me. Losing weight on the other hand is very hard. Will just be commuting for now plus walks and a weekend ride. It's all going to be about daily calorie deficits. My homework for the next few months is just to be constantly hungry which sounds horrible but at least there isn't the pressure of cycling. After losing the weight, I will then start to train properly for cycling.
I'd add some weights or other strength work too.
Concur, although I think Zill has done this before?

Old mate I ride with had a diabetic reminder last year, lost 10kg in 6 weeks. Diet and lots of treadmill, no cycling. He's still as weak as a kitten. Looks unhealthy, too.

Mind you, we're in our 50's. Different story in your teens or twenties I think?

zill
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Re: Biphasic sleep

Postby zill » Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:01 pm

fat and old wrote:
Concur, although I think Zill has done this before?

Yes, doing some weights at home as well. Cutting my kms back now and just focusing on diet.

CKinnard
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Re: Biphasic sleep

Postby CKinnard » Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:32 pm

zill wrote:Not good to be honest. Lost 3kg in 13 weeks by not trying to starve myself. So may have to start starving myself to some extent.
your lack of weight loss is common for people who go to bed at midnight.
you may very well be getting up 4 hours later because of your late night activities. but I digress

macca33
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Re: Biphasic sleep

Postby macca33 » Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:09 pm

If you fart in your sleep and the missus doesn't kick you, did a fart actually occur???
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tgdavies
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Re: Biphasic sleep

Postby tgdavies » Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:00 pm

CKinnard wrote:your lack of weight loss is common for people who go to bed at midnight
Interesting comment -- what's the reason for late nights reducing weight loss?

CKinnard
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Re: Biphasic sleep

Postby CKinnard » Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:25 pm

tgdavies wrote:
CKinnard wrote:your lack of weight loss is common for people who go to bed at midnight
Interesting comment -- what's the reason for late nights reducing weight loss?
The reasons are not elaborated in the literature.
But it could be
- disruption of any number of endocrine rhythms, especially those reliant on progressive NREM sleep phases, such as growth hormone. Third and forth stage NREM stages are considered essential for adequate recovery from athletic activity.
- expending higher levels of blood sugar between dinner and sleep, and consequent snacking more in that time, especially on unhealthy foods.
- being more fatigued in the morning, and consequently less physically active.
- you burn more fat when you go 12 hours without eating. Those who stay up late tend to snack more regularly.


http://www.northwestern.edu/newscenter/ ... -gain.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

zill
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Re: Biphasic sleep

Postby zill » Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:29 pm

CKinnard wrote:Third and forth stage NREM stages are considered essential for adequate recovery from athletic activity.
This can occur in the second phase or period of sleep as described in the opening post.

If one can control themselves not to over eat than can't see why it's bad to sleep late. However, it does feel pretty bad going to bed on a not very full stomach. If one can get over that than shouldn't be much problems?

CKinnard
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Re: Biphasic sleep

Postby CKinnard » Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:40 pm

zill wrote:
CKinnard wrote:Third and forth stage NREM stages are considered essential for adequate recovery from athletic activity.
This can occur in the second phase or period of sleep as described in the opening post.

If one can control themselves not to over eat than can't see why it's bad to sleep late. However, it does feel pretty bad going to bed on a not very full stomach. If one can get over that than shouldn't be much problems?
The second phase or period you referred to occurred over a 12 hour period of darkness. You are breaking your sleep over a shorter period.

zill
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Re: Biphasic sleep

Postby zill » Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:59 pm

CKinnard wrote: You are breaking your sleep over a shorter period.

What do you mean?

Break up my sleep into two phases seem to be the only way I can feel energetic the whole day. Sometimes however like today, it took three hours to fall asleep the second time which isn't good. Those are very drowsy three hours.

CKinnard
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Re: Biphasic sleep

Postby CKinnard » Thu Sep 24, 2015 5:42 pm

The traditional breaking of sleep into two blocks the researchers refer to was apparently common when people went to bed shortly after dark, like before 8pm, in an era before electricity and kerosene lanterns.

As for energetic, you want to take a leaf out of the sleeping patterns of the world's best athletes, and their dietary preferences. but you and I have covered this before, and you still seem to be looking for a brand new fancy pants way to get the best out of your body....and mind.

GAV!N
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Re: Biphasic sleep

Postby GAV!N » Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:16 pm

have you ever heard of Munchausen's Syndrome? It seems you're always finding something wrong with you....

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