Biphasic sleep

[zill]

Slept early at 10pm yesterday but woke up at 1:30am. Looks like I am stuck with biphasic sleep!

Maybe you should try and analyse what is waking you up - full bladder? feeling too hot/too cold? pain? etc.
Also mucking around with backlit devices has been shown to disturb sleep patterns, so you should dump those at least 30-60 mins before you intend to go to sleep.
Finally, you shouldn't do anything other than sleep in the bedroom - no TV, no computers, etc etc.

You should have gotten up at 5am and gone for a ride.

Wanted to go to the toilet when I awoke but wasn't desperate to go either. To be honest, looking at the phone seems to help me get to sleep. Would be surprised if it is the reason why I wake up too early. One thing is that I am in the habit of having breakfast in between the sleeps. So afraid that this might be the reason why my body is making me alert in the middle of the night!

[fat and old]

You went to bed at 10, woke up at 1.30am and had breakfast? Then went back to sleep? And you have various questions about sleep patterns and diet?

Maybe a Sub-Forum "Zill's Corner" is called for

Seriously mate, if you just go for a good ride sans brekky (AT) 4.30 or 5.....consistently....you'll get over it.

[fat and old]

Oops Homer moment

[zill]

You went to bed at 10, woke up at 1.30am and had breakfast? Then went back to sleep? And you have various questions about sleep patterns and diet?

Maybe a Sub-Forum "Zill's Corner" is called for

Seriously mate, if you just go for a good ride sans brekky (AT) 4.30 or 5.....consistently....you'll get over it.

Had breakfast at 1:30am but then lunch at 12:30pm with an apple in the middle. So calories are still kept in check.

Can't help myself with the sleep patterns. My diet has drastically improved actually and losing weight weekly. Sleep is the only problem now. Seems like you people are suggesting that I have to really suffer for a few days in order to get it right?

[CKinnard]

Zill, the fact you are losing weight might be contributing to your hunger in the middle of the night, don't you think?

Some questions you should ask yourself:
Am I eating enough of the right foods?
Am I losing weight at too rapid a rate?

[zill]

Zill, the fact you are losing weight might be contributing to your hunger in the middle of the night, don't you think?

Some questions you should ask yourself:
Am I eating enough of the right foods?
Am I losing weight at too rapid a rate?

Not starving at night but seem to wake up and feel very alert. Funny that after having breakfast, I get sleepy. So eating more may help to sleep. Can't wait to achieve my desired weight then eat more to sleep through the night. But if biphasic sleep is natural in some way then can't see a problem with it.

[CKinnard]

You are deluding yourself Zill. You are hungry when you wake up. If you weren't, you wouldn't eat. You are not eating breakfast early, you are eating a late night snack....presumably because you are staying up too late after dinner, and burning through too much blood sugar.

[zill]

You are deluding yourself Zill. You are hungry when you wake up. If you weren't, you wouldn't eat. You are not eating breakfast early, you are eating a late night snack....presumably because you are staying up too late after dinner, and burning through too much blood sugar.

A calorie deficit is needed in the end. I've been trying to balance it out over the three meals but is it better to starve during the day and have a fullish dinner in order to last the night? Or have two mini dinners instead of one (one at normal time and one just before bed time)?

[HappyHumber]

When is Christopher going to start selling plush toy zills as a bit of a revenue spinner?

[CKinnard]

You are deluding yourself Zill. You are hungry when you wake up. If you weren't, you wouldn't eat. You are not eating breakfast early, you are eating a late night snack....presumably because you are staying up too late after dinner, and burning through too much blood sugar.

A calorie deficit is needed in the end. I've been trying to balance it out over the three meals but is it better to starve during the day and have a fullish dinner in order to last the night? Or have two mini dinners instead of one (one at normal time and one just before bed time)?

Your night time 'issue' is most likely due to too big a daily deficit, not eating healthily, or staying up late. But you knew that.

[zill]

You are deluding yourself Zill. You are hungry when you wake up. If you weren't, you wouldn't eat. You are not eating breakfast early, you are eating a late night snack....presumably because you are staying up too late after dinner, and burning through too much blood sugar.

A calorie deficit is needed in the end. I've been trying to balance it out over the three meals but is it better to starve during the day and have a fullish dinner in order to last the night? Or have two mini dinners instead of one (one at normal time and one just before bed time)?

Your night time 'issue' is most likely due to too big a daily deficit, not eating healthily, or staying up late. But you knew that.

Eating very healthily now, for a change. Calorie deficit is large though but not that large. What do you suggest then?

[CKinnard]

I'd be repeating myself..

[fat and old]

You went to bed at 10, woke up at 1.30am and had breakfast? Then went back to sleep? And you have various questions about sleep patterns and diet?

Maybe a Sub-Forum "Zill's Corner" is called for

Seriously mate, if you just go for a good ride sans brekky (AT) 4.30 or 5.....consistently....you'll get over it.

Had breakfast at 1:30am but then lunch at 12:30pm with an apple in the middle. So calories are still kept in check.

Can't help myself with the sleep patterns. My diet has drastically improved actually and losing weight weekly. Sleep is the only problem now. Seems like you people are suggesting that I have to really suffer for a few days in order to get it right?

My over 50 y.o. Opinion? Yes. Men are supposed to suffer.

My club cyclist opinion? Yes. Racers are supposed to suffer.

My I want to beat my bad habits opinion? Yes. You're supposed to suffer.


Go out and join Audax Zill, and don't come back until you do a 500!

[zill]

I'd be repeating myself..

You've suggested that I fix my sleep habit by waking up at a fixed time such as 5:30am but I can't even sleep that long and probably due to not eating enough. But not eating enough is the only way to lose weight. How do I lose weight and simultaneously sleep good?

[Kalgrm]

How do I lose weight and simultaneously sleep good?

Exercise appropriately.

Consume less energy than you burn during the exercise.

[CKinnard]

I'd be repeating myself..

You've suggested that I fix my sleep habit by waking up at a fixed time such as 5:30am but I can't even sleep that long and probably due to not eating enough. But not eating enough is the only way to lose weight. How do I lose weight and simultaneously sleep good?

Knowledge is power.
Know what your calorie deficit is.
Know that a few days after getting out of bed at 530am you will sleep better when you hit the sack between 9 and 10pm

[zill]

You went to bed at 10, woke up at 1.30am and had breakfast? Then went back to sleep? And you have various questions about sleep patterns and diet?

Maybe a Sub-Forum "Zill's Corner" is called for

Seriously mate, if you just go for a good ride sans brekky (AT) 4.30 or 5.....consistently....you'll get over it.

Had breakfast at 1:30am but then lunch at 12:30pm with an apple in the middle. So calories are still kept in check.

Can't help myself with the sleep patterns. My diet has drastically improved actually and losing weight weekly. Sleep is the only problem now. Seems like you people are suggesting that I have to really suffer for a few days in order to get it right?

My over 50 y.o. Opinion? Yes. Men are supposed to suffer.

My club cyclist opinion? Yes. Racers are supposed to suffer.

My I want to beat my bad habits opinion? Yes. You're supposed to suffer.


Go out and join Audax Zill, and don't come back until you do a 500!

I like to do everything safely and scientifically.

[zill]

I'd be repeating myself..

You've suggested that I fix my sleep habit by waking up at a fixed time such as 5:30am but I can't even sleep that long and probably due to not eating enough. But not eating enough is the only way to lose weight. How do I lose weight and simultaneously sleep good?

Knowledge is power.
Know what your calorie deficit is.
Know that a few days after getting out of bed at 530am you will sleep better when you hit the sack between 9 and 10pm

It surely seems that I'm too calorie deprived for the reason of not able to sleep continously. Take this morning, woke up after 5 hours of sleep. Not very hungry but couldn't sleep again right after so had breakfast. Tried to sleep after breakfast but couldn't either. Went out and had a binge of junk food including chips, chocolate etc totaling about 3000 calories (haven't done this for some time now and avoiding it more and more). However, after the binge, slept very soundly for 4 hours and feeling extremely fresh now. Will now skip lunch and have a normal dinner. From tomorrow onwards will have a larger dinner but keep the same food intake for breakfast and lunch as before.

[zill]

A bit sad because I actually thought I had nailed weight loss in the head as I am able to function well during the day and lose decent weight. Only downfall is not able to fully sleep throughout the night! Have to tinker with my plan again.

[HappyHumber]

You should get on reddit, zill.

There's a crackpot sub-reddit for every school-of-thought-du-jour that pops up. You'll be in overthinking heaven.

[CKinnard]

If you have a daily energy deficit greater than 1000 Cals, you will tend not be comfortable. Hence the reason the most successful weight loss is done via Calorie counting, or a prescribed energy deficit. Until you control your deficit, you will be out of control in many areas of your life.

Cravings for carbs as well as indicating too large an energy deficit, are often associated with depression (no matter how mild) and anxiety - same for sleep issues. Starch consumption triggers release of the feel good neurotransmitter serotonin. It's a nasty trap to use food to lift your mood. see abstract below:


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8697046" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Brain serotonin, carbohydrate-craving, obesity and depression.
Abstract
"Serotonin-releasing brain neurons are unique in that the amount of neurotransmitter they release is normally controlled by food intake: Carbohydrate consumption--acting via insulin secretion and the "plasma tryptophan ratio"--increases serotonin release; protein intake lacks this effect. This ability of neurons to couple neuronal signaling properties to food consumption is a link in the feedback mechanism that normally keeps carbohydrate and protein intakes more or less constant. However, serotonin release is also involved in such functions as sleep onset, pain sensitivity, blood pressure regulation, and control of the mood. Hence many patients learn to overeat carbohydrates (particularly snack foods, like potato chips or pastries, which are rich in carbohydrates and fats) to make themselves feel better. This tendency to use certain foods as though they were drugs is a frequent cause of weight gain, and can also be seen in patients who become fat when exposed to stress, or in women with premenstrual syndrome, or in patients with "winter depression," or in people who are attempting to give up smoking. (Nicotine, like dietary carbohydrates, increases brain serotonin secretion; nicotine withdrawal has the opposite effect.) It also occurs in patients with normal-weight bulimia. Dexfenfluramine constitutes a highly effective treatment for such patients. In addition to producing its general satiety-promoting effect, it specifically reduces their overconsumption of carbohydrate-rich (or carbohydrate-and fat-rich) foods."

Judith Wurtman is a world authority on the relationship between serotonin, mood, and appetite. This is a reliable article.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/th ... eight-loss" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[fat and old]

I like to do everything safely and scientifically.

That's cool.

Yet I slept a solid 8 hrs, went for a 60km ride this am without brekky and am slowly but surely losing weight. No science, no questions, some suffering (hot Northerly.....my least favourite, followed by ignoring the left over bbq from yesty and eating fruit and yoghurt )

Tomorrow, repeat. Worse....a scheduled session on the trainer. My least favourite form of "cycling". Then a commute home into a forecasted Northerly again.

You do understand the difference between "unsafe" and "suffering" yeah?

[zill]

If you have a daily energy deficit greater than 1000 Cals, you will tend not be comfortable. Hence the reason the most successful weight loss is done via Calorie counting, or a prescribed energy deficit. Until you control your deficit, you will be out of control in many areas of your life.

Cravings for carbs as well as indicating too large an energy deficit, are often associated with depression (no matter how mild) and anxiety - same for sleep issues. Starch consumption triggers release of the feel good neurotransmitter serotonin. It's a nasty trap to use food to lift your mood. see abstract below:

Thing is if I get to 80kg or above, don't have the need for junk but whenever, I get below 75kg, it can easily kick in or at least on my mind a few times a day. In this way, don't think it's depression. The only way I get around it is to not carry cash or cards around and this is working at the moment as I'm below 75kg.

Would taking Melatonine make me sleep better even if hungry at night? Or is that too risky to take as I'd be dependent on it?

[zill]

You do understand the difference between "unsafe" and "suffering" yeah?

Slowly learning it. Learnt a big lesson in April when suffering turned into an injury which I still haven't fully recovered from.

[matagi]

I like to do everything safely and scientifically.

Ah, humour.