Poor diet + hard training + insufficient rest = injury

[zill]

Been a very bad year for the majority of this year. Not only am I not as fit as I was a year ago, but riding less due to physically not able from muscle injury.

Torn a calf muscle pretty seriously in April, came back from it after two month but then torn it again (same calf) in August as a result of sprinting too early during a ride and also cold weather. Nowhere as badly damaged this time but that meant i didn't treat it seriously so kept training. However, the muscle never fully healed and two months later still not 100% with it. So am forced to slow down and pretty much go back to ground 0 so back to April. So pretty much will miss this summer's cycling/racing!

[cp123]

riding is supposed to be fun above anything else. injuries happen. why don't you think that it's lucky that it was only a pretty minor twang and not something serious like getting cleaned up by a car, massive injuries and years to recover. Just plod along at a cruisey pace and it will come good. Slowing down never killed anyone.

Racing will still be there next year.

[zill]

riding is supposed to be fun above anything else. injuries happen. why don't you think that it's lucky that it was only a pretty minor twang and not something serious like getting cleaned up by a car, massive injuries and years to recover. Just plod along at a cruisey pace and it will come good. Slowing down never killed anyone.

Racing will still be there next year.

True that. Also this is a good time to change my previously extremely poor diet as some people here knows. The body is trying to teach me a lesson I think.

[vosadrian]

I hear you.

I trained well (good ride routine and good recovery and diet and sleep) for a 1000km 6 day ride with around 170k/day 6 days in a row including some serious climbing. I rode it harder than I should have and got poor sleep due to bedding arrangements. I was riding better than ever which may have been part of the issue. Also I failed to do my normal after ride stretching due to time and weather requiring me to shower and put some jeans on very soon after the days riding (8-10 hours a day and then taxied to a shower within 15 minutes off getting off the bike). As a result I injured my left achilles region. That was 18 months ago and it is still not much better even following a 4 months break off the bike over winter. It does seem to be best when I am riding at a moderate level (100k a week). It has been pretty bad, and scans don't show anything serious is wrong, but I am in constant pain that flares any time I do any activity with it (including kicking when swimming). I can't play catch with my kids.

When this happened 2 weeks off the bike seemed like a nightmare. Now I would get off the bike for 6+ months if I thought it would fix it.

Anyway, I am just getting in here to agree with your post title and hope that others can benefit from my experience. I have had plenty of sympathy, but that never really helped me unfortunately!!

[zill]

Wow, did you spend a fortune on physio therapy vosadrian? I know I am at the moment! Thank god for private health cover.

Do you think the pain will ever go away?

[zill]

riding is supposed to be fun above anything else. injuries happen. why don't you think that it's lucky that it was only a pretty minor twang and not something serious like getting cleaned up by a car, massive injuries and years to recover. Just plod along at a cruisey pace and it will come good. Slowing down never killed anyone.

Racing will still be there next year.

From hearing from vosadrian, seems an accident might be "better" than an injury because at least you know you will recover from a not too serious accident.

[moosterbounce]

From hearing from vosadrian, seems an accident might be "better" than an injury because at least you know you will recover from a not too serious accident.

Ummm...no. If you saw my simple accident - essentially a slip on sand with no cars or other cyclists involved - you wouldn't say that. I have weekly physio which is expected to last for about 2 years at which time the medicos will work out what movement I have lost permanently. I simple accident as you say can lead to pretty life altering consequences. The ambo's were going to take me straight home as they thought I had very bad bruising only.

And this is just me. A lot of members here have suffered similar life altering events that came from a "not too serious accident" as you say, so please be conscious of other folk on these boards that are living through, or have lived though injuries from a "not too serious" accident.

[zill]

I'm sorry moosterbounce. I've never had an accident that needed professional medical attention. I've heard stories of one NRS rider saying in a lucky year, he would only need to be hospitalized once from an accident. Obviously he was able to come back from it and still compete. Also the come back of Pantani rings in the back of my mind and his accident was serious!

[vosadrian]

I am trying to stay confident about my injury. I think I might get through it eventually. Some times it seems to be getting better. I have tried physio, accupuncture+chinese herbs, chiro (currently), massage, PRP, rheumatologist, GPs, and many scans including CT, MRI, Ultrasound. I think I have spent close to $10k on treatment. The difficulty is not know what is actually wrong. The only thing that comes up at any level that could be painful is some synovitis of my subtalar joint, but my pain symptoms are not consistent with that. I thnk there is probably some scar tissue down there aggravating nerves.

In my case, I would have preferred to come off my bike and break a collar bone and be out of action for a couple of months, but I understand that some people, have had seemingly small injuries from trauma turn bad and be life altering. Unfortunately my overuse injury has turned the same way. At least I did not have the acute pain of a trauma type injury and have avoided that with my cycling so far.... touch wood!!

[g-boaf]

riding is supposed to be fun above anything else. injuries happen. why don't you think that it's lucky that it was only a pretty minor twang and not something serious like getting cleaned up by a car, massive injuries and years to recover. Just plod along at a cruisey pace and it will come good. Slowing down never killed anyone.

Racing will still be there next year.

From hearing from vosadrian, seems an accident might be "better" than an injury because at least you know you will recover from a not too serious accident.

You've just got to back things off, follow the advice of the physio people to the letter and you'll recover. For the moment, you've just got to take it easy, little riding and only on the flat, no hills.

I've done a calf muscle before, but I got over it.

What fixed it was getting the bike fit sorted out and following the advice of the physiotherapist. Now it isn't a problem.

Some people here have had seemingly small accidents/injuries that have seriously affected them in the long term, so your thing should be possible to come back from.

[zill]

In my case, I would have preferred to come off my bike and break a collar bone and be out of action for a couple of months

The other thing is you won't re injure it again unless you have the accident again which is rare for an amateur.

[dalai47]

Enough of this 'that accident x be more preferable than injury y. As moosterbounce quite eloquently put it, there is no such thing as a good accident or injury!

In my case, I would have preferred to come off my bike and break a collar bone and be out of action for a couple of months

The other thing is you won't re injure it again unless you have the accident again which is rare for an amateur.

1. Broken collarbones can have serious long term consequences.

2. 'amateurs' can and have broken their collarbones multiple times. If operated on can and will break more easily next time too - either at the ends of the plate if left in or the multiple screw holes if removed.

No accident is a good accident!

[vosadrian]

Not questioning that dalai47. Most achilles injuries are solved in a few weeks, but sometimes they get chronic. Either can have long term consequences. I have just been surprised that some soft tissues heel much more slowly than bones. I always assumed the higher density of bones would be slower to heel, but some soft tissues have low blood flow and can be a real problem also. Best to avoid any injury. It not like we can choose which injury after the fact anyway!

[zill]

1. Broken collarbones can have serious long term consequences.

Like what?

Heard people say that you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a surgical added metal in your body compared to a piece of real bone originally in your body.

How is your injury coming along? Fully recovered yet? Training or competing?

[zill]

I thnk there is probably some scar tissue down there aggravating nerves.

Wouldn't message help get rid of the scar tissue?

[trailgumby]

1. Broken collarbones can have serious long term consequences.

Like what?

Heard people say that you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a surgical added metal in your body compared to a piece of real bone originally in your body.

How is your injury coming along? Fully recovered yet? Training or competing?

Like not re-joining at all. It's called non-union, I believe, and is something every doctor who deals with collarbones is concerned about when you present.

It happens.

[dalai47]

It definitely does happen! Work colleague broke his MTB racing. After his first operation it didn't rejoin, so he had a second operation for a bone graft and still isn't right over three years later!

Otherwise standard potential surgery complications: risks of a full anesthetic operation, infection, nerve damage as a number of nerves run over the collarbone. Plus there is a good chance that in breaking the collarbone there will be other collateral damage.

You may have heard others say they can't tell the difference with metal in there and perhaps others can't. But mine is clearly visible, including seeing a number of the screw heads. Definitely can feel it too! Took me over a year to be able to wear a light day pack on that shoulder, but still hurts and aches on it's own at times. I had a great surgeon but the sensation touching that shoulder still feels odd over 18 months later (can only describe it as a dull wooden sensation).

I was finally back very nervously racing on the track after 8 months and 16 physio sessions post crash, continuing through Winter racing the National CX series and state CX series. But prior to the end of the winter season I've indefinitely shelved my bikes. Not because of the collarbone, but to care for my wife as she goes through chemo having been diagnosed late July.

[vosadrian]

Everyone who I know who had a metal plate for bone breaks (including collar bone) and had it removed later after it healed was much happier after the plate was removed. They all say it just did not feel right until after the plate was removed and then it felt right a few weeks later.

Oh... and for my scar tissue (possibility), I have done massage, but I have not don Gastron tryp deep tissue massage. Might have to give that a go.

[dalai47]

Definitely planned from the start to get the plate removed vosadrian, even though I don't handle a full anesthetic well... I was going to get done at the end of this years CX season, but right now it is only an inconvenience compared to what my wife is going through so ignoring it for now.

[vosadrian]

I hear you mate... it sounds like I may be going through similar in my family as you. It changes everything when cancer strikes. Niggling injuries do not matter.

[zill]

Actually does poor diet have much of an effect on my calf injury? My message therapist doesn't think so. He said any food is broken down in to basic components like carbs, protein etc. So it doesn't matter if you eat lots of junk food or not in terms of the composition of the muscles (leaving aside the issue of extra weight gain due to more easily able to consume extra calories). The "bad" chemicals from the junk food just gets filtered in the liver and goes out your back end. However, Joe Friel said in his book that it does matter and "would you want your muscles to be built from cakes, chocolates or more wholesome foods?"

The therapist backed up his claim by saying there have been Olympic Gold medalists on junk food diets and have done well. Who is right?

[trailgumby]

I'd respectfully suggest those junk food Olympians have done well despite their diets, not because of them. What your massage therapist is saying is anecdote, not evidence. Friel is on the money.

The short answer is "everything matters".

The thing is, training actually does you a small amount of damage in the short term. The body recognises this stimulus and supercompensates, improving fitness, but this takes time, nutritional inputs, and sleep. If you don't allow enough time before the next session, do things that slow your recovery like not enough sleep, or fail to provide optimal building materials through nutritional input, it's training too early (the left of the first dotted line in the graph below) and you damage yourself further. The risk of training yourself into a downward spiral (ie, overtraining) rather than supercompensation and improvement is multiplied.



The chart below explains the concept. Your injury likely is a symptom of overtraining.



Good nutrition and nutrition timing helps keep the recovery period shorter. I find it useful to have a protein recovery drink within 20 minutes after a hard session. For most people, the classic 600ml low fat choccy milk is pretty close to optimal protein/carb mix. I need to use rice protein as dairy gives me respiratory complications, but you get the idea.

[zill]

I'd respectfully suggest those junk food Olympians have done well despite their diets, not because of them.

Offcourse junk food isn't optimal but the question is how much negativity does it create?

The body needs rest but if it can get the adequate nutrients from junk food then is it all good?

[trailgumby]

The body needs rest but if it can get the adequate nutrients from junk food then is it all good?

One of my mentors, Steve McKnight, has a saying that I've written on my bedroom mirror so that I see it and am reminded every day.

You don't get a full crop by sowing half the seed.

Do you want a full crop, or not?

The way you talk about junk food reminds me strongly of the way some alcoholic acquaintances talk about drink.

[matagi]

Actually does poor diet have much of an effect on my calf injury? My message therapist doesn't think so. He said any food is broken down in to basic components like carbs, protein etc. So it doesn't matter if you eat lots of junk food or not in terms of the composition of the muscles (leaving aside the issue of extra weight gain due to more easily able to consume extra calories). The "bad" chemicals from the junk food just gets filtered in the liver and goes out your back end. However, Joe Friel said in his book that it does matter and "would you want your muscles to be built from cakes, chocolates or more wholesome foods?"

The therapist backed up his claim by saying there have been Olympic Gold medalists on junk food diets and have done well. Who is right?

Ok, over the time you've been on this forum, you've asked enough questions and presumably read all the responses so you should know the benefits a "wholesome" diet vs a junk food diet, so I'll just get right down to it - the therapist is correct up to a point. As far as the enzymes in our body that break them down are concerned, carbs are carbs, fat is fat and protein is protein regardless of whether it comes from fresh food cooked from scratch or from junk food. At its most basic level, the body has a finite set of reactions that render foods into their constituent molecules.

HOWEVER ..... what junk food contains that fresh, minimally processed foods lack is the chemical soup of stabilisers, emulsifiers, preservatives and flavour enhancers that your body - specifically your liver - has to deal with. Science really does not know how all these things interact within the body, but it would be disingenuous to think they do not have some sort of deleterious effect. Some may even mimic the actions of endogenous hormones (Which may explain the obesity epidemic more than the simplified "fat is bad, sugar is bad" mantra that some people peddle).

If I were your health care provider, I would most definitely be advising you to eat a wholefood diet as opposed to a junk food diet, possibly with a bit more protein than usual to aid in the recovery from this injury. I would also be advising physiotherapy and recommending you get adequate amounts of sleep.

Are you looking for justification for your poor eating habits/unhealthy lifestyle? If so, you're wasting your time and ours asking questions on this board.