Poor diet + hard training + insufficient rest = injury

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zill
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Re: Poor diet + hard training + insufficient rest = injury

Postby zill » Sat Nov 21, 2015 4:11 pm

matagi wrote: Are you looking for justification for your poor eating habits/unhealthy lifestyle? If so, you're wasting your time and ours asking questions on this board.
Definitely not matagi, was surprised by his statement and wanted to check with the people here. Thanks for providing the explanation. For me, a diet of junk food definitely will not work because I will not be able to control myself and overeat plus it's too expensive a lifestyle.

zill
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Re: Poor diet + hard training + insufficient rest = injury

Postby zill » Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:36 pm

A thought, if someone was always eating junk food and suddenly switch to a healthy diet, they will feel weird as the liver will not need to process so much bad chemicals anymore but will "crave" to put to use. Hence the cravings. Not sure if its entirely correct or other factors may be at play that are responsible for the cravings.

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trailgumby
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Re: Poor diet + hard training + insufficient rest = injury

Postby trailgumby » Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:42 pm

As with most addictions, if you persevere for long enough the brain will rewire itself and the cravings wil diminish to more manageable levels, althugh perhaps not completley disappear.

Speaking of which, it is time I logged out of this board and did what I planned for this weekend. Good night! :)

zill
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Re: Poor diet + hard training + insufficient rest = injury

Postby zill » Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:46 pm

trailgumby wrote:As with most addictions, if you persevere for long enough the brain will rewire itself and the cravings wil diminish to more manageable levels, althugh perhaps not completley disappear.


You have raised an interesting point. I am planning to go cold turkey for a year without junk food. For a food addict, this is the only way unfortunately. Can't do much cycling at the moment so it's all about diet for now.

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matagi
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Re: Poor diet + hard training + insufficient rest = injury

Postby matagi » Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:49 pm

zill wrote:
trailgumby wrote:As with most addictions, if you persevere for long enough the brain will rewire itself and the cravings wil diminish to more manageable levels, althugh perhaps not completley disappear.
You have raised an interesting point. I am planning to go cold turkey for a year without junk food. For a food addict, this is the only way unfortunately. Can't do much cycling at the moment so it's all about diet for now.
The key to succeeding will be to plan - plan your meals, plan your snacks. Do you know how to cook? What to look for when you go shopping for fresh produce?
These are skills you will need to develop in order to help break the junk food cycle. If you don't know how to cook, I would recommend signing up for a beginner's cookery course. Failing that Delia Smith's "How to Cook" series is a brilliant resource.

Do you have a backyard? Or even a balcony? Get planting - herbs are a good start, tomatoes do well in large tubs on a balcony too. If you do have a garden, then plant some tomatoes and green beans. You're too late to plant seeds but seedlings from the nursery are still ok.

But above all - plan! Plan menus, plan your shopping. Eventually it will become second nature but in the early stages planning is very important.

EDIT: Delia is now online - http://www.deliaonline.com/deliaonline- ... ideos.html

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Re: Poor diet + hard training + insufficient rest = injury

Postby Addictr3 » Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:43 pm

zill wrote:A thought, if someone was always eating junk food and suddenly switch to a healthy diet, they will feel weird as the liver will not need to process so much bad chemicals anymore but will "crave" to put to use. Hence the cravings. Not sure if its entirely correct or other factors may be at play that are responsible for the cravings.

Are you out for the lols or you being serious?
If you can't explain it simply, then you don't understand it well enough.

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Addictr3
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Re: Poor diet + hard training + insufficient rest = injury

Postby Addictr3 » Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:47 pm

trailgumby wrote:As with most addictions, if you persevere for long enough the brain will rewire itself and the cravings wil diminish to more manageable levels, althugh perhaps not completley disappear.

Speaking of which, it is time I logged out of this board and did what I planned for this weekend. Good night! :)
if speaking of addiction that is simply psych, its unrelated to how food works in the body. Coming from a bio-chem background. I tell you, if you are seriously putting in the km's each week and riding well each day, you can simply have good moderation in what you eat (note" I have not used the word junk food)

there is no such thing as junk food, if you choose to eat that or call it that, thats fine, but simply your body is just processing macros. Some come loaded with benefits such as vitamins etc.

If you find you have a sweet tooth, simply manipulating the way our insulin response works is a good place to start, I'd suggest some chromium each morning, maybe some EGCG too.
If you can't explain it simply, then you don't understand it well enough.

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Re: Poor diet + hard training + insufficient rest = injury

Postby zill » Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:25 pm

Addictr3 wrote:
zill wrote:A thought, if someone was always eating junk food and suddenly switch to a healthy diet, they will feel weird as the liver will not need to process so much bad chemicals anymore but will "crave" to put to use. Hence the cravings. Not sure if its entirely correct or other factors may be at play that are responsible for the cravings.

Are you out for the lols or you being serious?
All my posts are serious. However, you can probably easily see that I am not very knowledgeable in this area.

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Re: Poor diet + hard training + insufficient rest = injury

Postby vosadrian » Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:32 am

It seems that discussion on junk foods here is limited to whether they can supply what a healthy body needs. Has anyone got any comments on "junk" foods effects on the body in terms of chronic inflammation and other things that can promote injuries to become chronic and generally prevent a body from healing properly.

I am currently trying to cut right down on Coke (which I love) and drink lots of water as well as taking Turmeric and other supplements in an attempt to fight general inflammation in my body. Apart from my ankle injury (which I think may be a case of an old injury never healing properly and becoming chronically inflamed), I have also recently found out I have facet joint arthritis in my back. I have been on NSAIDs to manage, but they have only a small positive affect on pain, and are known to be bad when used long term, so I am trying more natural ways that I can fight inflammation that I can use long term.

Sugar has been claimed to cause inflammation, so trying to reduce that mainly in drinks. Then I just take a supplement with turmeric and proteolytic enzymes and a few other things which are supposed to "pro" anti inflammatory for the body. At the moment it is just dipping a toe in the water to see what happens. I realise there are massive dietary changes that can be made to a proper anti-inflammatory diet. Would like to try that, but difficult to manage when I eat with a family with two kids and my wife. We can change a few meals a week to help me, but I don't want to take away the things the rest of my family enjoys all the time.

Anyway, my point is that although the body can get what it needs to maintain good performance from junk foods, is it possible that junk foods are providing things we don't want that can reduce its ability to recover/repair and may be making injuries becomes chronic?

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Re: Poor diet + hard training + insufficient rest = injury

Postby misterhorsey » Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:20 am

zill wrote:Actually does poor diet have much of an effect on my calf injury? My message therapist doesn't think so. He said any food is broken down in to basic components like carbs, protein etc. So it doesn't matter if you eat lots of junk food or not in terms of the composition of the muscles (leaving aside the issue of extra weight gain due to more easily able to consume extra calories). The "bad" chemicals from the junk food just gets filtered in the liver and goes out your back end. However, Joe Friel said in his book that it does matter and "would you want your muscles to be built from cakes, chocolates or more wholesome foods?"

The therapist backed up his claim by saying there have been Olympic Gold medalists on junk food diets and have done well. Who is right?
Zill, would it be helpful for you if you stopped thinking of 'junk food' as 'food'?

Highly processed carbs or meats, saturated with artificial flavourings, loaded with sugar, salt and fat, and preservatives, are manufactured by multinational corporations in order to efficiently extract as much money from consumers as possible. It simply isn't food. Its addictive, but its an inefficient and expensive way to 'satisfy' your body's nutritional requirements.

Whereas 'food' is stuff that is grown by the planet that your body is able to process to fuel its physiological processes.

Processing, such as milling wheat into flour, or adding heat to cook stuff, isn't totally necessary but can improve flavour/the dining experience, for sure.

The less processed the food, the more nutrients are made available to you without paying hefty processing margins demanded by the 'food' industry.

At least for me, I've found my own take on a hippie mindset to be useful in critically analysing our society's engagement with food.

zill
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Re: Poor diet + hard training + insufficient rest = injury

Postby zill » Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:36 pm

matagi wrote:
zill wrote:
trailgumby wrote:As with most addictions, if you persevere for long enough the brain will rewire itself and the cravings wil diminish to more manageable levels, althugh perhaps not completley disappear.
You have raised an interesting point. I am planning to go cold turkey for a year without junk food. For a food addict, this is the only way unfortunately. Can't do much cycling at the moment so it's all about diet for now.
The key to succeeding will be to plan - plan your meals, plan your snacks. Do you know how to cook? What to look for when you go shopping for fresh produce?
These are skills you will need to develop in order to help break the junk food cycle. If you don't know how to cook, I would recommend signing up for a beginner's cookery course. Failing that Delia Smith's "How to Cook" series is a brilliant resource.

Do you have a backyard? Or even a balcony? Get planting - herbs are a good start, tomatoes do well in large tubs on a balcony too. If you do have a garden, then plant some tomatoes and green beans. You're too late to plant seeds but seedlings from the nursery are still ok.

But above all - plan! Plan menus, plan your shopping. Eventually it will become second nature but in the early stages planning is very important.

EDIT: Delia is now online - http://www.deliaonline.com/deliaonline- ... ideos.html


Got my (home made meals) plan worked out.

The number one rule is: Not buy any "take away" food or beverages from any shops except fruit.

I know fruit may not be the healthiest thing but I just want a rule that's easy to stick to and remember under all circumstances! Great thing about fruits are that you eat until full- and you can get full pretty easily, wouldn't want to eat more than you can handle. The unfortunate thing is if I happen to be outside all day and need to eat a meal outside then it's a full fruit meal!

All the food I buy from the supermarket are (relatively) healthy. Only time I eat unhealthy is when I buy ready eat foods from shops and when I buy one, I buy LOTS until fully stuffed. Compared to many of you I am way behind in terms of healthy living but for a food addict like me, if I can just stop binge eat, the world is my oyster or more like cycling is my oyster!

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Poor diet + hard training + insufficient rest = injury

Postby kb » Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:58 pm

I found this idea pretty interesting

(From http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/pro ... in/6867030" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

Lynne Malcolm: And is it possible to train our brains to be attracted to healthy foods?

Helena Popovic: Yes, it is, there have actually been studies done I believe at Tufts University, but there have definitely been studies done, where they took a whole group of obese people and they showed them a range of different foods—healthy, unhealthy, junk, high sugar, high fat—and they looked at what regions of their brain were activated when they flashed different foods up in front of them. And as predicted, when they flashed up the ice creams and the rich, sugary, fatty foods, the pleasure centres of their brain lit up and they produced dopamine. When they showed them brussel sprouts, barely a flicker in their brains.

So then they tried an experiment where they said, okay, we want you to allow yourself to get really hungry and then when you are really hungry, hungrier than usual, eat healthy foods. Because it's when we are really hungry that we crave junk food. And the theory was that if you eat junk when you are really hungry you strengthen the circuit between hunger and the junk food because eating that junk food will then produce dopamine and satisfaction. Instead they said when you are really hungry, reach for the really healthy food. And they did this for about six months, but they scanned their brains every fortnight.

And they found that for some people, within two weeks when they flashed up the same images they got a stronger positive response to healthy food and a weaker response to junk food, which means that they had actually started to shift their preferences for the healthy food. And the trick really is, when you are really hungry, that's the most important time to eat healthy food, that's the worst time to eat junk food. Neurons that fire together, wire together. So if you associate hunger and satisfaction of that hunger with healthy food, you will actually increase your craving for that healthy food.
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matagi
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Re: Poor diet + hard training + insufficient rest = injury

Postby matagi » Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:48 pm

zill wrote:. The unfortunate thing is if I happen to be outside all day and need to eat a meal outside then it's a full fruit meal!
Do you not know when you're going to be out all day? If it happens without prior warning, that can make it difficult but if you know in advance then take extra stuff for your meal "out".

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Re: Poor diet + hard training + insufficient rest = injury

Postby zill » Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:37 pm

matagi wrote:
zill wrote:. The unfortunate thing is if I happen to be outside all day and need to eat a meal outside then it's a full fruit meal!
Do you not know when you're going to be out all day? If it happens without prior warning, that can make it difficult but if you know in advance then take extra stuff for your meal "out".

For the next 3 months especially will try to eat at home and plan to go out only between meals. Apart from breakfast, I like to have a hot meal but don't like to prepare ahead of time. So will have to be fruits. Also not any fruit as fruits such as peaches can be addictive and lead to binge eating. So has to be bananas and apples.

zill
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Re: Poor diet + hard training + insufficient rest = injury

Postby zill » Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:40 pm

kb wrote:I found this idea pretty interesting

(From http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/pro ... in/6867030" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

Lynne Malcolm: And is it possible to train our brains to be attracted to healthy foods?

Helena Popovic: Yes, it is, there have actually been studies done I believe at Tufts University, but there have definitely been studies done, where they took a whole group of obese people and they showed them a range of different foods—healthy, unhealthy, junk, high sugar, high fat—and they looked at what regions of their brain were activated when they flashed different foods up in front of them. And as predicted, when they flashed up the ice creams and the rich, sugary, fatty foods, the pleasure centres of their brain lit up and they produced dopamine. When they showed them brussel sprouts, barely a flicker in their brains.

So then they tried an experiment where they said, okay, we want you to allow yourself to get really hungry and then when you are really hungry, hungrier than usual, eat healthy foods. Because it's when we are really hungry that we crave junk food. And the theory was that if you eat junk when you are really hungry you strengthen the circuit between hunger and the junk food because eating that junk food will then produce dopamine and satisfaction. Instead they said when you are really hungry, reach for the really healthy food. And they did this for about six months, but they scanned their brains every fortnight.

And they found that for some people, within two weeks when they flashed up the same images they got a stronger positive response to healthy food and a weaker response to junk food, which means that they had actually started to shift their preferences for the healthy food. And the trick really is, when you are really hungry, that's the most important time to eat healthy food, that's the worst time to eat junk food. Neurons that fire together, wire together. So if you associate hunger and satisfaction of that hunger with healthy food, you will actually increase your craving for that healthy food.
Really interesting article. Thanks for that. It's been 2 days eating at home and already have had many thoughts of eating out.

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Re: Poor diet + hard training + insufficient rest = injury

Postby Aussiebullet » Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:09 am

zill wrote:I know fruit may not be the healthiest thing

It's not ...? care to elaborate?
I'm pretty sure they are not teaching the kiddies at school that fruit is not the healthiest thing to eat, it's the second highest food on the Australian dietary food pyramid.
Fruit is a large part of my diet second only to vegetables.
If you don't think eating fruit is healthy then what do you consider a healthy food to eat?

Bluejay87
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Re: Poor diet + hard training + insufficient rest = injury

Postby Bluejay87 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:28 am

Would be pretty hard to get fat on fruit

zill
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Re: Poor diet + hard training + insufficient rest = injury

Postby zill » Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:45 am

Aussiebullet wrote:
zill wrote:I know fruit may not be the healthiest thing

It's not ...? care to elaborate?
I'm pretty sure they are not teaching the kiddies at school that fruit is not the healthiest thing to eat, it's the second highest food on the Australian dietary food pyramid.
Fruit is a large part of my diet second only to vegetables.
If you don't think eating fruit is healthy then what do you consider a healthy food to eat?
It is high in sugar. Some fruits can be very addictive like peaches and watermelons. For me fruit will have to be apples and bananas which thankfully is readily available outside. The great thing though is it fill you up pretty well and that is so much more important for me.

If outside, I'd add two more things to buy, water and small amounts of low sugar cheese (only when needing to eat a meal outside). Note that it seems some people are addicted to cheese but not me. So in the rare instances of being outside the whole day then I'll have an apple or two, a banana or two and some cheese depending how much energy I've expanded.

Aussiebullet
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Re: Poor diet + hard training + insufficient rest = injury

Postby Aussiebullet » Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:42 pm

Still didn't answer my question Zill. you say fruit is not the healthiest, tell me why?
1kg or 2.2 pounds in the old scale of peaches is ~390cal mostly from carbohydrates sucrose, glucose & fructose it's loaded with vitamins antioxidants fiber etc.
1kg or 2.2 pounds in the old scale of banana's is much higher in calories ~890cal mostly from carbohydrates glucose, fructose & sucrose it's also loaded with vitamins/minerals fibre etc.
Both are great options both are healthy, unless you have another definition of heathy?

zill
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Re: Poor diet + hard training + insufficient rest = injury

Postby zill » Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:56 pm

Aussiebullet wrote:Still didn't answer my question Zill. you say fruit is not the healthiest, tell me why?
My answer is in the first sentence of my last post "It is high in sugar". You might say it is not that high but for some healthy freaks (not me) trying to cut sugar to minimum levels, having a meal consisting of lots of fruits is a no no.

Aussiebullet wrote: 1kg or 2.2 pounds in the old scale of peaches is ~390cal mostly from carbohydrates sucrose, glucose & fructose it's loaded with vitamins antioxidants fiber etc.
1kg or 2.2 pounds in the old scale of banana's is much higher in calories ~890cal mostly from carbohydrates glucose, fructose & sucrose it's also loaded with vitamins/minerals fibre etc.
Both are great options both are healthy, unless you have another definition of heathy?
Here is my experience with peaches. Last year, went to the supermarket in a healthy frame of mind and bought 6 when not even particularly hungry but knew that I love them and it's fruit, surely good for you. Ate 6 so that I can fully enjoy the taste of my peaches. Was fairly filled afterwards but because it left such a sweet and pleasant taste in my mouth, my mind switched modes and went into dessert binge eating mode. Had close to 10 000 kj of artificial sweets after those peaches. Never touched peaches again after that!

So you can see that many foods especially bought outside sets triggers in my head. And when that trigger is released, it is very hard to hold back until I am stuffed full. That is a dangerous, unhealthy and expensive cycle to be in on a day to day basis. At the moment, I am just accepting the fact that I am a food addict and at least for this coming year, cutting out all trigger foods.

Aussiebullet
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Re: Poor diet + hard training + insufficient rest = injury

Postby Aussiebullet » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:47 pm

So you went on an eating binge that started with peaches therefore fruit is not that healthy.
Your logic astounds me.

zill
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Re: Poor diet + hard training + insufficient rest = injury

Postby zill » Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:00 pm

Aussiebullet wrote:So you went on an eating binge that started with peaches therefore fruit is not that healthy.
Your logic astounds me.
Your inference astounds me!

Fruit is not that great due to the high sugar content. Some fruits are trigger foods for me like peaches for a few reasons (sweetness is one of them). I am trying very hard to avoid trigger foods at the moment. So will avoid peaches but not all fruit. Will never get addicted or trigger anything by eating apples or bananas.

zill
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Re: Poor diet + hard training + insufficient rest = injury

Postby zill » Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:04 pm

3 days of wholesome home cooked foods and all is well. I think I've finally found the (healthy) foods I enjoy eating and am now cooking them in healthy portions at home.

Bluejay87
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Re: Poor diet + hard training + insufficient rest = injury

Postby Bluejay87 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:55 pm

Low sugar cheese? Do you mean low fat cheese?

zill
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Re: Poor diet + hard training + insufficient rest = injury

Postby zill » Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:24 am

Bluejay87 wrote:Low sugar cheese? Do you mean low fat cheese?
Low sugar because again it's the addictive. Sweet flavoured cheese is like cheese cake without the crumbs!

Don't mind the fat in the cheese. I'm having a little bit of it anyway. As long as it doesn't trigger anything it's all good especially with a natural product such as cheese.

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