Undeclared medical conditions

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outnabike
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Undeclared medical conditions

Postby outnabike » Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:53 am

Not a new slant on testing oldies, but consequences can be hard on the public due to crashes due to health problems.

Undeclared medical conditions

https://practicalmotoring.com.au/car-ne ... spotlight/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Undeclared medical conditions might be the bane of insurance companies the world over, but they can also have serious consequences on the road, as a case in Scotland has highlighted.
IN A CASE THAT is just as relevant here in Australia, a court in Glasgow has called for changes to the UK law, including increased penalties and prosecutions for drivers who fail to declare medical conditions.
The crash involved a garbage truck driven by a 57-year old who lost control of the vehicle after fainting due to an undeclared medical condition. The vehicle mounted a pavement crowded with pedestrians and Christmas shoppers, killing six people, including two grandparents and their grand-daughter. It later emerged that the driver had previously suffered a similar episode while driving in his previous job, but he had not disclosed this to his new employer, the Glasgow City Council.
Vivente World Randonneur complete with panniers

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trailgumby
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Re: Undeclared medical conditions

Postby trailgumby » Sat Dec 26, 2015 1:06 pm

I recollect a story about a senior naval officer who crashed and killed a couple and their child in an SUV when he slammed them from behind and shot them into the path of an oncoming heavy vehicle not far from where I live.

Far from being exxonerated because it was "not his fault", he was jailed for several years, the judge reasoning he knew he was prone to the episodes, was not treating the condition, and drove anyway.

There is a memorial on the fence of the golf course where it happened. Very sad. :(

Rhubarb
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Re: Undeclared medical conditions

Postby Rhubarb » Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:31 pm

So very sad. When my grandfather was becoming a danger, I joined several members of my family in coercing him to sell the car and stop driving. It was difficult for him but ultimately he agreed with it.

I hope I'm smart enough to give it away before I kill someone. I certainly plan to. That will be when I get an ebike, not before :-P

Shred11
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Re: Undeclared medical conditions

Postby Shred11 » Sun Dec 27, 2015 8:58 am

Here in Tasmania, the Director of Public Prosecutions caused a fatal collision while suffering from diagnosed sleep apnoea. Predictably, there was a great deal of legal wrangling involved, but he did not go to gaol and only lost his license for two years.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-23/t ... sh/5984948

There seems to be great reluctance by medical practitioners to declare a person unfit to drive - and this is something that needs to change to protect all road users. Here are two examples I've seen at close range:

Former next door neighbour - a really nice old bloke, but a terrible driver in his later years. He caused multiple collisions just in our street, before he wrote off his car by failing to give way on a main road and the Police finally took his license off him. He was absolutely incensed at this and went to considerable trouble to try get back on the road, including taking driving lessons. Fortunately, the authorities refused to re-issue his license.

Family friend with dementia. She was downright dangerous and literally didn't even know what day it was. We suspect that she actually lost her license for repeated speeding violations, but she didn't know / remember. She only stopped driving when Her car died an expensive death through lack of any servicing for years (she forgot).

At one stage, my job used take me to the office of a prominent eye specialist. The staff told me to never park in their car park - because most of the cars there were driven by people who legally could not drive due to poor eye sight. It was very common for people to be told that they must not drive... but they would walk out to the car park, jump in their car and drive away.

So: is a driver's license a "right" or a privilege?

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trailgumby
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Re: Undeclared medical conditions

Postby trailgumby » Sun Dec 27, 2015 10:32 am

Shred11 wrote:Here in Tasmania, the Director of Public Prosecutions caused a fatal collision while suffering from diagnosed sleep apnoea. Predictably, there was a great deal of legal wrangling involved, but he did not go to gaol and only lost his license for two years.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-23/t ... sh/5984948

There seems to be great reluctance by medical practitioners to declare a person unfit to drive - and this is something that needs to change to protect all road users.
I wrote to my mother's GP advising my concerns. He acted. Having a paper trail to document my giving him this advice left him no wiggle room.

A few years later I was struck by an 88yo woman at a roundabout in July 2013 on my then brand-new Cannondale Scalpel 29r. As I slid off the side of her bonnet she then ran over my foot. Long story short, I told the 000 cops and the officers when they arrived I was concerned about dementia and her fitness to drive, as she was driving very slow (which was what deceived me into thinking she had seen me and was braking), was very slow to react to the collision, and had a dazed and confused demeanour in our initial interaction.

The fact she accused me of failing to indicate a right turn after entering the roundabout from the 6 o'clock position (relative to her 12), rather than from 9 (as I had, intending to go straight) sealed it, I think. The woman left with her license suspended subject to a fitness to drive assessment.

(No damage to the bike by the way. It happened so slowly I was just able to lift it clear of the road in time to stop the wheels from being tacoed. My foot had a very mild bursa that resolved in a couple of weeks.).

chriscole
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Re: Undeclared medical conditions

Postby chriscole » Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:32 pm

Shred11 wrote:Here in Tasmania, the Director of Public Prosecutions caused a fatal collision while suffering from diagnosed sleep apnoea. Predictably, there was a great deal of legal wrangling involved, but he did not go to gaol and only lost his license for two years.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-23/t ... sh/5984948

There seems to be great reluctance by medical practitioners to declare a person unfit to drive - and this is something that needs to change to protect all road users. Here are two examples I've seen at close range:

Former next door neighbour - a really nice old bloke, but a terrible driver in his later years. He caused multiple collisions just in our street, before he wrote off his car by failing to give way on a main road and the Police finally took his license off him. He was absolutely incensed at this and went to considerable trouble to try get back on the road, including taking driving lessons. Fortunately, the authorities refused to re-issue his license.

Family friend with dementia. She was downright dangerous and literally didn't even know what day it was. We suspect that she actually lost her license for repeated speeding violations, but she didn't know / remember. She only stopped driving when Her car died an expensive death through lack of any servicing for years (she forgot).

At one stage, my job used take me to the office of a prominent eye specialist. The staff told me to never park in their car park - because most of the cars there were driven by people who legally could not drive due to poor eye sight. It was very common for people to be told that they must not drive... but they would walk out to the car park, jump in their car and drive away.

So: is a driver's license a "right" or a privilege?

We (doctors) actually have very little power to do anything at all about people who we know should not drive, advise not to drive, and choose to do so, anyway. I've had cases where I've contacted the Police, who say they don't deal with that and to contact the licensing authority...and on contacting the licensing authority was informed there's nothing they can do, and to contact the Police if there are any concerns. :-/ Medicolegally there is no requirement for us to do anything beyond tell the person they should not drive.

Incidentally, I was working in Hobart when the DPP killed Natalia Pearn. It is astonishing, and sadly reinforces my general opinion about the incestuous nature of the legal profession and government (perhaps particularly in Tasmania), that he was not actually punished for carelessly killing another person.

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redsonic
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Re: Undeclared medical conditions

Postby redsonic » Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:46 pm

chriscole wrote:
We (doctors) actually have very little power to do anything at all about people who we know should not drive, advise not to drive, and choose to do so, anyway. I've had cases where I've contacted the Police, who say they don't deal with that and to contact the licensing authority...and on contacting the licensing authority was informed there's nothing they can do, and to contact the Police if there are any concerns. :-/ Medicolegally there is no requirement for us to do anything beyond tell the person they should not drive.

Incidentally, I was working in Hobart when the DPP killed Natalia Pearn. It is astonishing, and sadly reinforces my general opinion about the incestuous nature of the legal profession and government (perhaps particularly in Tasmania), that he was not actually punished for carelessly killing another person.
I believe the situation in QLD is different. We have "Jets Law":
In November 2004 a driver suffering an epileptic fit hit the car of 22 month old Jet Rowland's mother's. The impact killed Jet, severely injured his mother Anita Rowland and left his brother Bailey confined to a wheelchair. Medical Condition Reporting Legislation introduced after the tragedy has been named "Jet's Law" in recognition of the little boy whose death inspired the laws.
Driver licence holders have a mandatory requirement to report, any long term or permanent medical condition that may affect their ability to drive safely, to Queensland Transport.
Source

Failure to report a medical condition can result in a fine of $7000 and disqualification from driving. Reporting a condition usually results in the need to provide a medical certificate, renewed periodically.
Doctors seem to have some powers:
Health professionals may report directly to us [QLD transport] if they believe their advice may be ignored or that your condition poses a risk to public safety.
https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/licens ... e/medical/

chriscole
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Re: Undeclared medical conditions

Postby chriscole » Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:25 pm

Hiya redsonic,

I expect you're right. Unfortunately things like this vary from state to state/territory in Australia. I trained in Queensland, some time before this law was introduced, but work in the ACT these days. The part you're quoting makes it an offence for a person not to report their own medical condition, and seems to allow for notification/reporting by a doctor, but I wonder if it includes mandatory notification? Interesting.

Here in Canberra, neither the motor vehicle licensing folk nor the Police want to know about it.

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