I've been having a few issues with the ITB anchor point on my tibia getting irritated and inflamed from riding. It seems to be because the more forward cleat position on my Shimano R170 road shoes leads me to curl and hold my toes in tension, and the habit is proving difficult to break.
I've been using my Shimano XC90 Mtb shoes and pedals for a couple of weeks and have found my tendency to hold my toes and re-injure myself is much reduced. Comparing the centre line through the cleat positions shows the mtb cleat is 12-13mm behind the Speedplay cleat on the pedal. I want to move the Speedplay cleat back to the same position as the MTB cleat. The problem is the slots for the 3-point mount are very short and I'm maxed out to the rear as it is. Same on the Speedplay base plates slots.
I could whip out the dremel and go to work on the carbon sole I suppose, but it seems like rather an aggressive hack, and I'm not sure what the interior carbon contouring is like without ripping out the lining and risking trashing it. Don't want to have the cleat nuts sit proud and create pressure spots.
Any thoughts?
Mid-foot position with Speedplay Zero cleats
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The information / discussion in the Cycling Health Forum is not qualified medical advice. Please consult your doctor.
- trailgumby
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Mid-foot position with Speedplay Zero cleats
Postby trailgumby » Sat Dec 26, 2015 1:22 pm
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Re: Mid-foot position with Speedplay Zero cleats
Postby biker jk » Sat Dec 26, 2015 2:15 pm
http://www.this link is broken.au/speedplay-alum ... plate-kit/
Provides 14mm additional rearward positioning.
Provides 14mm additional rearward positioning.
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Re: Mid-foot position with Speedplay Zero cleats
Postby trailgumby » Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:02 pm
Follow up:
Picked a set of those plates up yesterday from BikeBug for $40 at North Sydney and went for a ride today, 77km. Cleats were moved back only 5mm, rather than the 12-13mm I was initially thinking. The difference in the number is from measuring the shoes with the heels against a vertical board and the shoe last at the same angle - more accurate than my first estimate.
How did I go? No knee pain. Hurrah! And another upside, I'm getting the foot engaged first time very time too - don't need to relearn the pedal position when I swap bikes.
Now I just need the same heat-molded footbeds as my XC90 shoes and we'll be set. But that's a subject for another thread.
Picked a set of those plates up yesterday from BikeBug for $40 at North Sydney and went for a ride today, 77km. Cleats were moved back only 5mm, rather than the 12-13mm I was initially thinking. The difference in the number is from measuring the shoes with the heels against a vertical board and the shoe last at the same angle - more accurate than my first estimate.
How did I go? No knee pain. Hurrah! And another upside, I'm getting the foot engaged first time very time too - don't need to relearn the pedal position when I swap bikes.
Now I just need the same heat-molded footbeds as my XC90 shoes and we'll be set. But that's a subject for another thread.
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Re: Mid-foot position with Speedplay Zero cleats
Postby bitstuffer » Wed May 18, 2016 3:50 pm
that toe scrunch can occur when the shoe is looser than it should be as well. Have the same shoes, my L foot is a bit bigger than the right (parents played with uranium) and my solution of tightening the R shoe to take out the lateral movement at the front of the foot has sorted it. I had the ITB thing too - a little stretching with the thigh up at ~90 degrees to your body (knee) leaning onto a door jamb with a little pressure and 10 dips down with the other leg just to stretch out that little sucker.
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Re: Mid-foot position with Speedplay Zero cleats
Postby trailgumby » Wed May 18, 2016 10:13 pm
Unfortunately my knee issue is back, with a vengeance, and my ankle ain;t too flash either.
I got back into the weights after my race in April and it looks like I was too aggressive in ramping up the volume.
I got back into the weights after my race in April and it looks like I was too aggressive in ramping up the volume.
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Re: Mid-foot position with Speedplay Zero cleats
Postby TheShadow » Thu May 26, 2016 9:07 pm
This may not apply for you, but after playing around with seat and cleat adjustments at various times over the years I've eventually come to believe that if I'm using mainstream, 'big-name' components that plenty of other good riders use with no apparent trouble...then (for me) if I find myself using extreme amounts of adjustment it's probably because I'm doing something wrong with how I'm trying to use my body.
I've had (and still have) a significant tendency to claw my toes inside the shoe and find it really helps everything (max power, min foot problems and the like) if I can really focus on slightly lifting my toes and making sure I'm really pressing on the ball of my foot - really feel that bone sinking into the sole of the shoe. The other foot exercise that you can do simultaneously is to try and pull the ball of your foot back towards your heel, by contracting your instep muscle. So you're kind of 'clenching' your foot, but lifting your toes lightly off the sole.
I find it's a different feeling that transfers right up your leg and into your glutes. Kind of really focuses everything to exerting maximum force in the most effective way that doesn't seem to cause injury....efficiency usually means less damage/injury, as well as more power. I'm not saying this will cure you, or that you're even not already doing something like this, but you might want to try the foot exercise and see if it helps. I find it takes a lot of concentration. Fortunately I have a foot that gets extremely painful if I don't do this, so I have good motivation.
I've had (and still have) a significant tendency to claw my toes inside the shoe and find it really helps everything (max power, min foot problems and the like) if I can really focus on slightly lifting my toes and making sure I'm really pressing on the ball of my foot - really feel that bone sinking into the sole of the shoe. The other foot exercise that you can do simultaneously is to try and pull the ball of your foot back towards your heel, by contracting your instep muscle. So you're kind of 'clenching' your foot, but lifting your toes lightly off the sole.
I find it's a different feeling that transfers right up your leg and into your glutes. Kind of really focuses everything to exerting maximum force in the most effective way that doesn't seem to cause injury....efficiency usually means less damage/injury, as well as more power. I'm not saying this will cure you, or that you're even not already doing something like this, but you might want to try the foot exercise and see if it helps. I find it takes a lot of concentration. Fortunately I have a foot that gets extremely painful if I don't do this, so I have good motivation.
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Re: Mid-foot position with Speedplay Zero cleats
Postby ItsDank » Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:09 am
Might be an idea to see the guys at the Body Mechanic, not far from Milsons Point under the bridge. They do pretty decent fits and cleat positioning.trailgumby wrote:Unfortunately my knee issue is back, with a vengeance, and my ankle ain;t too flash either.
I got back into the weights after my race in April and it looks like I was too aggressive in ramping up the volume.
- trailgumby
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Re: Mid-foot position with Speedplay Zero cleats
Postby trailgumby » Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:16 pm
Got my last bike fit done there by Blair. Was mostly a good outcome. Was thinking I should go back, but may be updating bike(s) in the near future so didn;t want to waste money on the current bike. All depends on the size of my tax refundItsDank wrote:Might be an idea to see the guys at the Body Mechanic, not far from Milsons Point under the bridge. They do pretty decent fits and cleat positioning.trailgumby wrote:Unfortunately my knee issue is back, with a vengeance, and my ankle ain;t too flash either.
I got back into the weights after my race in April and it looks like I was too aggressive in ramping up the volume.
In the meantime I seem to have turned a corner with the treatment from my current physio and some work from me focusing on engaging and using my glutes and core more in my pedal action, which were under-utilised.
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Re: Mid-foot position with Speedplay Zero cleats
Postby trailgumby » Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:28 pm
Sorry, only just noticed this.TheShadow wrote:I've had (and still have) a significant tendency to claw my toes inside the shoe and find it really helps everything (max power, min foot problems and the like) if I can really focus on slightly lifting my toes and making sure I'm really pressing on the ball of my foot - really feel that bone sinking into the sole of the shoe. The other foot exercise that you can do simultaneously is to try and pull the ball of your foot back towards your heel, by contracting your instep muscle. So you're kind of 'clenching' your foot, but lifting your toes lightly off the sole.
I find it's a different feeling that transfers right up your leg and into your glutes. Kind of really focuses everything to exerting maximum force in the most effective way that doesn't seem to cause injury....efficiency usually means less damage/injury, as well as more power. I'm not saying this will cure you, or that you're even not already doing something like this, but you might want to try the foot exercise and see if it helps. I find it takes a lot of concentration. Fortunately I have a foot that gets extremely painful if I don't do this, so I have good motivation.
Yes! I was clawing my toes as well. Likely a big contributor. It has taken a *lot* of work to break the habit.
Besides the glute work mentioned in the previous post, a session on the trainer with the Sufferfest "Elements of Style" video and the use of the 7-point self-check outlined therein has has helped. I will do a few more of them over the coming weeks to cement the habits.
In the point about feet, they encourage relaxing the foot and the use of even pressure across the whole shoe. This has encouraged me to stroke a bit more heel-down, which I can feel feeding up through my leg and into my glute, as you say.
The problem tonight was I smashed the glutes with the leg press and abductor machines on Monday with big weights and they're still sore now! At least it made them easy to feel and "switch on", even if power was way down.
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Re: Mid-foot position with Speedplay Zero cleats
Postby DG1984 » Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:09 am
There is something to be said for a proper fit...I adjusted my own cleats, having no real idea what I was doing. Must have had the left cleat slightly inward compared to the right, which was giving me huge amount of pain through the tendon on the inside of my knee.
Regular physio wasn't really helping, adjusted the cleats to be slightly more outward after sitting down Sunday evening and figuring out at what angles I had pain at, and those I didn't - as a result I've had zero pain all this week - including the very next day from the ride I was really quite sore during/after.
I think, like you gumby I'll be getting an actual fit once the tax comes through. TBM are aligned with Wheelhaus now, so I'll likely go there.
Regular physio wasn't really helping, adjusted the cleats to be slightly more outward after sitting down Sunday evening and figuring out at what angles I had pain at, and those I didn't - as a result I've had zero pain all this week - including the very next day from the ride I was really quite sore during/after.
I think, like you gumby I'll be getting an actual fit once the tax comes through. TBM are aligned with Wheelhaus now, so I'll likely go there.
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Re: Mid-foot position with Speedplay Zero cleats
Postby trailgumby » Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:10 pm
Got the fit done on Thursday after our financial results went to the market.
Seat is up by about a centimetre and the saddle is over 15mm further forward (IOW I'm now on a zero offset seat post - unusual for a roadie). That's quite a difference - I need to get an easy spin in today before our group ride tomorrow.
Very interestingly, no changes to the XC mtb. After watching e pedal he said all my angles were perfect. Might be why I don't get any problems on that bike.
Seat is up by about a centimetre and the saddle is over 15mm further forward (IOW I'm now on a zero offset seat post - unusual for a roadie). That's quite a difference - I need to get an easy spin in today before our group ride tomorrow.
Very interestingly, no changes to the XC mtb. After watching e pedal he said all my angles were perfect. Might be why I don't get any problems on that bike.
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