Leg strength has gone but no pain, why?

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Big Pete 1
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Leg strength has gone but no pain, why?

Postby Big Pete 1 » Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:58 pm

I have been off the bike for a few years. Restarted training recently. I still have a punch but no endurance at all. That is, I can get up to racing speed for about 300m and then I am exhausted. I am also 40 kg overweight.

Today (5th ride) I rode with my old cycling friends. It was the longest distance for me so far in my comeback. The pace was easy for them but hard for me. I got dropped after 40 kms. The last 20 kms was hard on my legs. They were screaming for me to stop. My legs were not in pain as such, but strained to continue. After I got home and rested, my legs are still not sore - no pain whatsoever. However, I can hardly walk up steps, not because of pain but I have no strength in them. In the past I had weakness plus muscular pain, but this is just weakness. What is that all about?

madmacca
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Re: Leg strength has gone but no pain, why?

Postby madmacca » Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:59 pm

First the leg pain. Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness (DOMS) is common when your muscles do something unfamiliar to them. (even fit people can feel sore when taking up a new form of exercises). So no surprises that you were feeling sore on your first few rides, and not surprising either that after 5 rides your muscles are getting used to the new demands you are making of them, and therefore less pain.

Secondly, endurance. Your body has 2 different energy systems. The aerobic system is virtually inexhaustible, but is only capable of moderate output. The anaerobic system is capable of much higher output, but only has limited reserves. Likely you were able to keep up with your mates initially through using both your aerobic and anaerobic systems, while they were probably cruising largely on their aerobic systems. Once you burned through your anaerobic reserves, you were left with just your aerobic reserves to struggle home.

You can get faster over shorter distances by training your anaerobic system, but to improve your endurance, you need to work on the aerobic system, so that you can go faster before the anaerobic system kicks in, and thus stretch your anaerobic reserves further.

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Big Pete 1
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Re: Leg strength has gone but no pain, why?

Postby Big Pete 1 » Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:13 pm

Thank you madmacca.

I am not suffering from DOMS as such. My muscles seem fine.
Since posting my question, I think I know what I am feeling. I think my muscle tendons have been strained and now their integrity has been compromised. That is, though the muscles have endured, but the tendons holding the muscles have weakened. If that makes sense.

However, I will take your advise and start doing aerobic training to take the strain off my tendons and focus on burning off my 40kgs of fat. What I used to do before, to burn fat, was to ride at 75% max heart rate with a cadence of about 100 rpm. That is a cadence I can no longer do easily. Currently at about 80-90 rpm. But if I stay around 75% MHR I am sure I will eventually get used to 90 rpm and slowly build up that cadence without too much huffing and puffing.

madmacca
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Re: Leg strength has gone but no pain, why?

Postby madmacca » Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:14 am

Yeah, if you haven't been exercising for a while, then an imbalance between muscle strength and tendon strength and flexibility is a possibility as well. Anyway, it sounds like they are beginning to respond to regular use. And you are right that a higher cadence means less force per stroke, which your tendons may like as well.

Where energy is coming from during your workout is largely irrelevant to fat loss. What matters is the balance between calories burned and consumed over the ENTIRE 24 HOUR DAY. Table pushaways, fork put-downs and one arm fridge door closes are probably more effective exercises in terms of fat loss. :) But they probably aren't as good for your fitness.

From what I have read, riding at 65-70% of MHR is probably better for developing your aerobic capacity. At 75%, you are probably starting to engage your anaerobic system as well, and the training effect on the aerobic system not as focussed. But shedding some kg will help you go faster as well, and riding at 75% will burn more calories in the time available, and may well be a good trade-off to make in terms of achieving multiple objectives in terms of fat loss and training effect. (And we are only quibbling about 5% here anyway.)

Abby
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Re: Leg strength has gone but no pain, why?

Postby Abby » Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:04 pm

One way I've always looked at it is: Are you being held back by your legs or your heart?

If it's your legs - they'll start burning up and you'll fall off the group. But you can eventually recover and keep going.

If it's your 'heart' (cardio/fitness) - your legs will still be ok, but you just can't hold the pace or distance with the group.

I know that's a really simplistic & broad way of looking at it and leaves a lot out, but it can give you an idea of what to work on. If it's yor legs, then you can start adding sessions that target the type of riding you need to do. If its yoru heart, then look at weight loss, endurance, more frequency & consistency, etc.

Cheers :-)
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Top_Bhoy
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Re: Leg strength has gone but no pain, why?

Postby Top_Bhoy » Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:11 pm

Ask a regular cyclist who goes on a 4+ week holiday how they feel the first week or so back - many feel sluggish.

This will sound harsh but after being away from cycling for a few years, trying to keep up with mates and 40 kg overweight, you're at best, unfit. I'd reign back the distances and speed until your body gets used to being on a bike again then slowly increase them. It won't happen overnight but stick at it and it'll come without putting you in hospital.

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Re: Leg strength has gone but no pain, why?

Postby rheicel » Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:08 pm

+1 to Top_Bhoy. When I started riding again in 2012 (coming from 7 years of no cycling) I felt very weak. I managed to keep my weight but only have limited exercise prior to 2012. I have been cycling again for 4 years now and have admitted the fact that I wont be as fit as I was in 2004/5.
Enjoy the cycling and make sure you do regular long rides to trim your weight. Once you hit the plateau on how much weight you are loosing per week, you can start to look at your food intake to further reduce your weight.
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Big Pete 1
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Re: Leg strength has gone but no pain, why?

Postby Big Pete 1 » Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:38 pm

Thanks madmacca.
madmacca wrote:Yeah, if you haven't been exercising for a while, then an imbalance between muscle strength and tendon strength and flexibility is a possibility as well. Anyway, it sounds like they are beginning to respond to regular use. And you are right that a higher cadence means less force per stroke, which your tendons may like as well...
My knees get a hammering sometimes from my style of riding (I like to push it know and again). I now have a slight knee ache. I feel the pain during light workout outs. It is as if my muscles are still a bit slack in holding the knee joints in place (I am in my 60's). So when I pedal with a bit of force, my muscles hold the knee together and I feel no pain - only in recovery I feel the knees ache.
madmacca wrote:...Where energy is coming from during your workout is largely irrelevant to fat loss. What matters is the balance between calories burned and consumed over the ENTIRE 24 HOUR DAY. Table pushaways, fork put-downs and one arm fridge door closes are probably more effective exercises in terms of fat loss. :) But they probably aren't as good for your fitness...
Thanks for the table behavior tips. :lol: I'll give them a go.
madmacca wrote:...From what I have read, riding at 65-70% of MHR is probably better for developing your aerobic capacity. At 75%, you are probably starting to engage your anaerobic system as well, and the training effect on the aerobic system not as focussed. But shedding some kg will help you go faster as well, and riding at 75% will burn more calories in the time available, and may well be a good trade-off to make in terms of achieving multiple objectives in terms of fat loss and training effect. (And we are only quibbling about 5% here anyway.)
I used 75% before and it worked very well for me. At the moment, getting to pedal at 90 rpm is a bit of a hassle. My cardio is down and my butt on seat gets a bit sore after a while. I know I will eventually get used to it.
Last week was my second week on the bike. In the first week I rode 102 km. Last week 280 km. So far, this week 140 km (hoping to repeat the 280 km). My week starts Mondays. In that way, I have Sunday to ride any lag/gap in my weekly goal. Mondays are my no-sweat rides, a spin session of about 38 km (AT) 20 kph.
My legs are good. They recover overnight. I ride everyday (raining or not). My recovery days after a longer ride are active recovery rides of 10-20 km spins.

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Big Pete 1
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Re: Leg strength has gone but no pain, why?

Postby Big Pete 1 » Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:51 pm

Thanks Abby.
Abby wrote:...If it's your legs - they'll start burning up and you'll fall off the group. But you can eventually recover and keep going.
If it's your 'heart' (cardio/fitness) - your legs will still be ok, but you just can't hold the pace or distance with the group....)
It's mainly heart, then legs.
When I ride alone, I always take it easy. But in a group, I go into race mode, I can't help it. I am a racer.
In race mode, I always ride with the first five riders. Taking turns up at the front. Because I am overweight and unfit, I can only hang in for a short time. I lack endurance and strength.
However, I have gained strength since two weeks ago. Two days ago, I left home late to ride with my friends; I had to time-trial myself to catch them. I quickly found my doable speed of 30 kph and 12 kms later I caught them. The previous week I did a 10 time trial and could only muster 26 kph. So I have improved strength and endurance since then (I don't think I was in a tailwind).

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Big Pete 1
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Re: Leg strength has gone but no pain, why?

Postby Big Pete 1 » Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:01 pm

Top_Bhoy wrote:Ask a regular cyclist who goes on a 4+ week holiday how they feel the first week or so back - many feel sluggish.

This will sound harsh but after being away from cycling for a few years, trying to keep up with mates and 40 kg overweight, you're at best, unfit. I'd reign back the distances and speed until your body gets used to being on a bike again then slowly increase them. It won't happen overnight but stick at it and it'll come without putting you in hospital.
Thanks Top_Bhoy.
I am a racer by heart, so I push myself when the group starts going. However, I soon get dropped, and then I revert back to cruising at a comfortable pace.
I do see myself as fat and overweight, but I also see myself in weight-training. That is, I am carrying a 38 kgs weight on my bike... something my mates are not doing. :wink:

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Big Pete 1
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Re: Leg strength has gone but no pain, why?

Postby Big Pete 1 » Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:09 pm

rheicel wrote:+1 to Top_Bhoy. When I started riding again in 2012 (coming from 7 years of no cycling) I felt very weak. I managed to keep my weight but only have limited exercise prior to 2012. I have been cycling again for 4 years now and have admitted the fact that I wont be as fit as I was in 2004/5.
Enjoy the cycling and make sure you do regular long rides to trim your weight. Once you hit the plateau on how much weight you are loosing per week, you can start to look at your food intake to further reduce your weight.
Thanks for tip rheicel.
In the past, any weight-loss plateau of mine was due to doing a regular routine or exercising. So I change to the routine as drastic as I can, like adding some hills for awhile instead of only riding the flats. Doing an extra 100 kms per week for awhile, or do some speed workouts. Also, a change of food helps me too - as you suggested.

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Big Pete 1
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Re: Leg strength has gone but no pain, why?

Postby Big Pete 1 » Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:11 pm

Thank you all for your lovely support, it's great!

CKinnard
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Re: Leg strength has gone but no pain, why?

Postby CKinnard » Thu Mar 03, 2016 11:58 pm

if you are 40kg overweight, then you've no doubt been on a poor diet for years.
you want to ease off the higher intensity stuff, and build up to it more gradually.

the leg weakness and lack of endurance is multifactorial, and includes that your leg and heart arteries are not getting the same blood they got years ago due to atherosclerotic plaques. If you keep pushing the intensity and distance too early, you'll risk a plaque coming loose.
leg weakness can also come from pressure on the lumbar nerves. combining obesity with a flexed lumbar spine will put more pressure on these nerves and cause weak lower limb muscles.
clean your diet up, talk to your GP about your exercise regimen (you might need a blood thinner), and ease into it.

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Big Pete 1
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Re: Leg strength has gone but no pain, why?

Postby Big Pete 1 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 7:38 pm

Thanks CKinnard.
I'll take that under advisement.

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