Plant Based Diet Thread

[Nobody]

At the supermarket you can see a relationship between what's in their trolley and how fat they are. I could probably categorise a high percentage of people into 3 basic categories;
- Do know and do care...The do know people have woken up to that's its a lot more simple than that, simply don't buy manufactured foods, purchase the ingredients and be in control.

I'd say there are a lot more people that know enough to eat to stay lean than there are to stay life long healthy.

- Don't know and do care...The ones that don't know and do care go thru the battle field of reading the nutritional labels on the food and comparing products from different manufacturers. They have stepped on to the path but have a long way to go.

- Don't care...The don't care group is the biggest of the groups (pun intended)

These two groups are harder to define because most have attitudes and dietary patterns that fall somewhere between those definitions.
At one end you have the people who do care, but are totally deceived by food industry marketing, contending advice from magazines/media, (poor advice) diet books, etc. They are usually the ones most frustrated with it all. The ones that have tried many diets, but can get nothing to work long term.
At the other extreme are the ones who think food is just entertainment and use it like an addictive substance. Restaurants, take away fast food, lots of meats, cheeses, lollies, biscuits, ice cream, cake, chocolates, soft drinks, etc. Whatever gives them a fix.

[Nobody]

Below is a small study result which may make people question whether they want to take DHA supplements, or just keep taking ALA and let their body work out what is needed by conversion.

“While this was a small study, our results show a potentially crucial and unexpected role for fats in the onset of dementia. Most surprisingly we found that a supposedly beneficial omega3, DHA, actually increased with the progression of the disease.

https://www.kcl.ac.uk/newsevents/news/n ... finds.aspx

Of course this could just be a side effect of the disease itself.

The study appears to disagree with the NutritionFacts video which shows that less than an omega-3 index of 4.4% can result in accelerated brain shrinkage. Interestingly the average US soldier was the same level as the the average vegan at 3.5%. So it appears eating more meat isn't the answer, only fish or supplementation.
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/should- ... -function/

IMO there are three remaining questions that seem to have contentious study results and opinions. They are:
- How much sodium intake is required for best health.
- Whether it is necessary to supplement DHA.
- What is the optimum fat intake, along with what types of fat.

My blood sodium levels have always been within normal limits regardless if I ate salt or not. But I still need to get a blood test for omega-3 index before making a decision whether to supplement DHA. I'll soon be getting into the higher risk group of over 50 yo male vegans which generally have the lowest blood index levels.

_____________________________________________________________________________

This correlates with my observation about diet and stress levels, or calmness.

Some veggies each day keeps the stress blues away

[Nobody]

This video gives more information about the study I posted in this thread on 24th March, here. This is the first video I've seen of Mr & Mrs Vegan. To me the video comes across like a sales video. Some may relate to that style, but I think it detracts from the message.

[CKinnard]

IMO there are three remaining questions that seem to have contentious study results and opinions. They are:
- How much sodium intake is required for best health.
- Whether it is necessary to supplement DHA.
- What is the optimum fat intake, along with what types of fat.

My blood sodium levels have always been within normal limits regardless if I ate salt or not. But I still need to get a blood test for omega-3 index before making a decision whether to supplement DHA. I'll soon be getting into the higher risk group of over 50 yo male vegans which generally have the lowest blood index levels.

Sodium
read up on regulation mechanisms here.
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictio ... deficiency
it is without doubt the most crucial mineral for the body to regulate if you understand all that it effects. there are multiple variable inputs for it from endocrine to renal to intestinal absorption rate, and to its interplay with fluid regulation. However, with age/degeneration some of these systems become less effective.

as for correct dietary intake, I don't think the guidelines are that far off now as a general guide.
And I think taking lower amounts is supported by reductionist studies and the intake of evolutionary cousins chimps and apes, with care to increase when doing unusual things such as endurance cardio exercise.
I think the picture is confused because so many people don't regulate a host of other factors well - hydration, micronutrient intake, excess protein, sedentary lifestyle where body fluids are not turned over optimally.

DHA
Ornish, Greger, and many others recommend Omega 3 supps.
True North, Loma Linda, Esselstyn and Neal Barnard don't.
DHA can be synthesized by the body from other 3's like ALA, which is what vegans do.
Seeds and nuts can adequately cover needs. The general recommendation is 1-2 tablespoons of flax or chia seed daily for all omega 3 requirements.

Goldhamer mentioned studies that support increased cancer risk (esp prostate) with N3 PUFA supps!
Goldhamer told me one day over breakfast about his most inspiring client - a Polish guy who migrated to the US after WWII that lived to 108 and was independently ambulant until breaking a hip joint 3 mths before dying. He was a strict vegan from around 55yo, but grew all his own vege and fruit. And outlived several partners. So 60 odd years' vegan. The guy never took a suppplement of any kind including B12. Goldhamer presumes he got enough from the dirt on the home grown vege.


Fat
Esselstyn, McDougall, and True North say NO OIL....and trust that you'll get enough FAT from nuts, seeds, other plants, and synthesize the rest.
McDougall says there's essentially no reported cases of low fat intake in the literature or medical practice.
https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2007nl/aug/oils.htm

[Nobody]

Thanks for the reply CK.

Sodium

... with care to increase when doing unusual things such as endurance cardio exercise.
I think the picture is confused because so many people don't regulate a host of other factors well - hydration, micronutrient intake, excess protein, sedentary lifestyle where body fluids are not turned over optimally.

At the moment I just try to remember to eat 100g+ of celery after riding which not only has plenty of sodium (80mg/100g) but from what I understand, it's high in nitrates too.

DHA
Ornish, Greger, and many others recommend Omega 3 supps.
True North, Loma Linda, Esselstyn and Neal Barnard don't.
DHA can be synthesized by the body from other 3's like ALA, which is what vegans do.
Seeds and nuts can adequately cover needs. The general recommendation is 1-2 tablespoons of flax or chia seed daily for all omega 3 requirements.

Campbell thinks DHA supplementation is a sales scam. His opinion on such topics I'd rate above all others so far. Hopefully this continues to be the case because I don't take any and I don't want to unless I have to. After a reread it appears I'm probably not in the low omega-3 index danger group until above 60 yo anyway. So no need for me to panic yet. I've been taking about 10g of linseed since the beginning as that was Esselstyn's recommendation and his book was the first I read.

Some like Jack Norris have made the argument that it depends on how well you convert and older males (60+) are more likely to be poor converters. Of course it depends on one's omega 6:3 ratio as well, which Campbell says (in link above) ideally should be 2:1. Mine usually is 2:1. It used to be closer to 4:1 when I was consuming more grains.

Goldhamer mentioned studies that support increased cancer risk (esp prostate) with N3 PUFA supps!

Well that's another good reason. I remember Lisle saying in a video that Goldhamer just kept testing for B12 without supplementation until it got low enough to act. It took 17 years IIRC. Mine took only a 2 years even with some low level supplementation.

Goldhamer told me one day over breakfast about his most inspiring client - a Polish guy who migrated to the US after WWII that lived to 108 and was independently ambulant until breaking a hip joint 3 mths before dying. He was a strict vegan from around 55yo, but grew all his own vege and fruit. And outlived several partners. So 60 odd years' vegan. The guy never took a suppplement of any kind including B12. Goldhamer presumes he got enough from the dirt on the home grown vege.

I would avoid all supplementation if I could get away with it. But B12 is a must and I seem to do slightly better taking a half dose of zinc daily. Hopefully vit-D and omega-3 index are high enough in blood tests for me to avoid taking them.

Fat
Esselstyn, McDougall, and True North say NO OIL....and trust that you'll get enough FAT from nuts, seeds, other plants, and synthesize the rest.
McDougall says there's essentially no reported cases of low fat intake in the literature or medical practice.
https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2007nl/aug/oils.htm

Thanks. I'm aware of what McDougall believes. But I've also heard/read a reasonable number of vegans saying they fair better with some seed/nuts in their diet. Whether it's better skin condition and/or feeling better, a small amount appears to make a difference for many. That is where the contention comes from. I take a small amount of almonds and Brazil nuts to cover my vit-E and selenium, since Cronometer says I'm low without them. I don't take them every day though. Just when I remember to. Sometimes some walnuts too. Usually about 10g or less of each. Anecdotally I seem a bit calmer when taking nuts and my skin seems to fare better too. I know McDougall means well, but he says his diet has 8% fat by Cal. I don't eat his diet, so I need seeds/nuts just to bring mine up to near 8% fat.

After reflection I think I'll continue on with business as usual.

[CKinnard]

Re fats, I think what makes us feel better is to not change radically the food types we've been on too fast, within reason. Whether it is a psyche addiction or a genetic endocrine pathway kindled to process certain foods easier, or a material comfort factor, who knows. But I think over time one can change more than they realize.

i.e. I never thought I would dislike dairy. But honestly now, the taste of milk is offensive. I could still enjoy a small piece of cheese, but can't overdo it like I did so essentially don't eat it unless it is included in some bought dish. I never thought I'd survive without starches, but many meals I have now are legumes with vege, or the occasional piece of salmon and vege. And it honestly fills me.

And incidentally, I am still on the very low Cal intake, 500-800 Cals a day. Not doing as much clinic, but more mental effort as an integrated program for a retirement village, which has been much more stimulating than I imagined. They residents are much more motivated to reduce animal produce and up their f&v, and the local GP is going to do bloods for those who get on board before and 10 weeks out. Should be great.

Am also putting together presentations for when I go back to True North which will be June, confirmed. But am getting heaps of headwork done so I my brain must be running well on ketones and liver synthesized glucose. My appetite is settled too. No hint of a sugar drop. BG and ketones have hovered around same level. Have gone right off the bike though. Just a bit of walking and stretching.

The beginning of May, I'll adopt SOS 100%.

BTW, when I talk about Omega supps, I am talking pills, not nuts and seeds.
Yeah Jack Norris has a legitimate point in that as you age women convert to DHA better, and conversion rates are highly variable, from the couple of studies I've read. I must revisit him as I haven't seen anything he wrote in the last 3-5 years. I'd like to see whether Amanda Benham's head is these days too, but she is a difficult personality who I think doesn't keep up with the latest literature. But I'd like to think that if the rest of the diet is very good, and one has stress managed, then absorption rates etc are going to be fine. I think I've told you stress can be so bad it can shut down absorption altogether, as in when an Aboriginal thinks they will die from having the bone pointed at them.

Re B12, yep I remember that story of Goldhamers. I think if you can prioritize growing a bit of your own stuff, and cultivate the soil over a year, it would very likely offset B12 intake issues....not absorption issues though. It would be a really important b12 study actually, to monitor 30 vegans who source at least half their vege from an organic home garden and only lightly rinse before eating.

[Nobody]

Re fats, I think what makes us feel better is to not change radically the food types we've been on too fast, within reason. Whether it is a psyche addiction or a genetic endocrine pathway kindled to process certain foods easier, or a material comfort factor, who knows. But I think over time one can change more than they realize.

i.e. I never thought I would dislike dairy. But honestly now, the taste of milk is offensive. I could still enjoy a small piece of cheese, but can't overdo it like I did so essentially don't eat it unless it is included in some bought dish. I never thought I'd survive without starches, but many meals I have now are legumes with vege, or the occasional piece of salmon and vege. And it honestly fills me.

I suppose what I'm saying is that C80 : F10 : P10 is recommended for a reason and is generally healthier (with the right fats) than C87 : F4 : P9, which is what my diet would be without linseed and nuts. Sure, many feeling are subjective and change in time, but I found my skin improved with more protein and fat in my diet.

And incidentally, I am still on the very low Cal intake, 500-800 Cals a day. Not doing as much clinic, but more mental effort as an integrated program for a retirement village, which has been much more stimulating than I imagined. They residents are much more motivated to reduce animal produce and up their f&v, and the local GP is going to do bloods for those who get on board before and 10 weeks out. Should be great.

Looks like the retirement home is a smart operator. With these multi stage care facilities, they can reduce their staff burden and costs if they can keep the clients out of higher level care for longer. They might save on some food costs as well. Of course the hardest part would be encouraging their clients to get and/or stay on board with the changes. Not everyone has a personality conducive to tolerate the changes.

Am also putting together presentations for when I go back to True North which will be June, confirmed.

On what subject?

The beginning of May, I'll adopt SOS 100%.

Why not sooner?

Yeah Jack Norris has a legitimate point in that as you age women convert to DHA better, and conversion rates are highly variable, from the couple of studies I've read. I must revisit him as I haven't seen anything he wrote in the last 3-5 years.

He has a blog with more recent write ups. I think I got my advice for a minimum of 1000 mcg/d (preferably 1500 mcg/d) of methyl B12 from that blog.
http://jacknorrisrd.com/

[CKinnard]

subjects at TN.
2 hour combined presentation/workshops:

1. HOW FAST AM I AGEING, and HOW DO I SLOW IT DOWN?
the order things start to fail and how it gradually or not so gradually constrains our life choices. focus is on musculoskeletal as that is what people notice first, apart from fatigue issues. presentation of studies showing how atherosclerosis of arteries supplying lumbar spine discs are highly correlated with low back pain, and case studies in my clinic of people reversing or reducing significantly LBP symptoms with weight loss and WFPB diet. I also address degeneration of special senses because these are the most sensitive indicators of lifestyle choices; and most people don't associate hearing, vision, balance, reflexes loss with nutrition, sleep quality, sedentariness, and stress management.

2. WHAT'S THAT PAIN, and HOW TO STOP IT?
the main regions of musculoskeletal degeneration - lumbar spine, knees, shoulders, hips, neck. : causes, lots of images and pathophysiological detail (i.e. Modic changes in vertebral endplates as a common source of pain when disc herniation is absent), relationship to diet, hydration, as well as posture and activity. interventions to slow degenerative process. Practical elements where members are taught techniques used to self assess for various joint pathologies. (people love discovering stuff about their own bodies so this is highly motivating, and something I've used for 20 years in corporate health).

3. WHERE'S THE BEST HEALTH INFORMATION?
An interactive workshop on the temporal and intellectual disconnect between the biological sciences, and what health care authorities and media serve to the public; as it relates to where and how people get health information.
How to get premium health info/advice, who to trust, how to ensure govt and health authorities repair the disconnect.
But WHY it is paramount that every individual ACCEPT personal responsibility for their health, and do not get sweet talked into thinking the govt and health authorities care more for you than you do!



Re going 100% SOS sooner, I may very well. The only way I am breaking it now is with coffee (have reduced significantly, haven't been out in the morning for one with the lads for a few weeks) and 100g animal flesh twice in the last 4 weeks, and irregularly a very small qty of commercial honey, soy, garlic Asian stir fry sauce. though that bottle is nearly finished and I won't buy another.

I need to buy nuts and be more diligent on seeds, but I avoid both when running low Cal.

[CKinnard]

More on Salt from Greger, this time re exacerbation of autoimmune diseases....certainly an important association in my work which I had not been specifically aware of before.

Incidentally, the recommended maximum dose is 1500mg of sodium per day = under 4g salt.
This will be achieved on PBWF diet, without adding salt to anything.

[Nobody]

subjects at TN.
2 hour combined presentation/workshops:

1. HOW FAST AM I AGEING, and HOW DO I SLOW IT DOWN?
...

2. WHAT'S THAT PAIN, and HOW TO STOP IT?
...

3. WHERE'S THE BEST HEALTH INFORMATION?
...

Looks interesting. They might film it and post it up on YouTube and I end up posting it here.

[Nobody]

More on Salt from Greger, this time re exacerbation of autoimmune diseases....certainly an important association in my work which I had not been specifically aware of before.

Incidentally, the recommended maximum dose is 1500mg of sodium per day = under 4g salt.
This will be achieved on PBWF diet, without adding salt to anything.

https://youtu.be/EklWNg7yhiU

Thanks for posting this.
I just ran my current diet through Cronometer and it's about 460mg of sodium without celery and 560mg with. I probably haven't added salt in well over a year. Sometimes I might have some pumpkin soup the wife made or some left over salad from a BBQ at work. That might be about 4 times a year.

The WHO recommends < 2g of sodium per day according to their latest 2012 guideline. It might reduce as newer evidence appears.

[CKinnard]

re the TN presentations, haha. I do want to get them down pat before getting there. If I do a good enough job, it could be an accelerated path to the US PBWF inner sanctum, or at least solidify reputation for fanning the flames in Australia. I am meeting so many people around Brisbane and the Sunshine Coast now who intuitively know the profundity of nutrition, but cannot find mainstream health carers to flesh it out and use it as therapy. Why, just this morning, I was with 3 multimillionaire business owners, an ex cycling pro and team manager, and several other high achievers having a coffee. One of the boy's latest heart stent surgery came up, and associated health issues. He was conveying how the pain started when he was solo off Brisbane on his $2M 60 foot ketch, and struggled against shortness of breath for 40 minutes before the boat got back into S.... Boat Harbour, where an ambulance was waiting for him (long story behind all that which I won't go into). There followed 30 minutes of genuine group interest in how diet effects atherosclerosis and joint inflammation. The market will drive demand for personal responsibility for our health as supported by the science. GPs en masse will take another generation before they begrudgingly adopt it with enthusiasm. Why? because it dumbs down therapy and makes the doctor more of an information resource and motivator, something the strong intellect and ego of most attracted to medicine are ill at ease with.

re sodium

NH&MRC AI is apt at 460-920mg sodium per day
https://www.nrv.gov.au/nutrients/sodium
They also have a "suggested dietary target" of 1600mg sodium, also apt as an upper limit.

heart foundation is about 15 years behind
https://www.heartfoundation.org.au/heal ... ition/salt
(and I have emailed them re the page's mistake in their formula : .04 s/be .4, an unacceptable mistake to make for an organization whose specialty is medical science.)

Once again, I think these recommendations are baseline, and have to be flexible enough to accommodate sweat rate and activity levels. Salt craving is ubiquitous amongst all mammals after significant exertion in hot or humid climates, let alone those who sweat.

[mikesbytes]

I'm looking for a simplistic way to categorise vegetables into groupings to simply describe their role in a meal. For example lettuce may be in one category and potato's in another category.

[CKinnard]

Vegetables are categorized as starchy or fibrous carbohydrates.

Apart from that, there's other groupings such as cruciferous, leafy greens, deadly nightshade, root.... but there's no groupings based on how they apply to meals.

In my view, it's better just to have a minimum 3 vege or salad ingredients with each meal, and to make them different colors (not all shades of green). Eating lots of color is arguably a better way to get optimal nutrition than any other I know of. Purple in particular is associated with higher levels of anti-oxidants.

[Nobody]

The market will drive demand for personal responsibility for our health as supported by the science.

When you say the market, would that be driven by individuals, or by business trying for cost savings, or both?

GPs en masse will take another generation before they begrudgingly adopt it with enthusiasm. Why? because it dumbs down therapy and makes the doctor more of an information resource and motivator, something the strong intellect and ego of most attracted to medicine are ill at ease with.

Not to mention the lower demand for services from the medical industry and therefore ultimately lower incomes as a result.

NH&MRC AI is apt at 460-920mg sodium per day
https://www.nrv.gov.au/nutrients/sodium
They also have a "suggested dietary target" of 1600mg sodium, also apt as an upper limit.

Unusual for a government body to have better recommendations that the WHO.

Once again, I think these recommendations are baseline, and have to be flexible enough to accommodate sweat rate and activity levels. Salt craving is ubiquitous amongst all mammals after significant exertion in hot or humid climates, let alone those who sweat.

Strangely I don't have such cravings to my knowledge. But then I don't usually get thirsty either. Just get a strong head ache if I don't re-hydrate properly.

[mikesbytes]

Thanks CK, perhaps I use the colour method to apply some simple education, need to look up a guide somewhere and then simplify it

[Nobody]

Apart from that, there's other groupings such as cruciferous, leafy greens, deadly nightshade, root.... but there's no groupings based on how they apply to meals.

Why "deadly"?

Hi Mike,

Since you appear to like kJ counting, most non-starch veg has about 84 kJ/100g while starchy veg typically has around 330kJ/100g excluding fibre. I think all the minor grouping aren't that important, unless you have a specific health problem. Like I can't eat green leafy because of too much iron. Some people are intolerant or nightshades etc.

[Nobody]

To get the most out of this video, you've had to have seen some of Goldhamer's previous videos. Or in the case of CK, know him.

[CKinnard]

Mike, I don't know of any color guides. Don't overthink it. What matters is over the long term (a week or a month) a person gets a good variety of vegetables....and keep in mind seasonality. A major point of resistance is expense for many people unused to eating vege. In season is cheaper.

I'd also encourage you to browse recipe books with lots of pics. Whatever looks good vege wise will be healthy. And don't let me put you off making your own color guide rooted in complementary colors.

If I had to pick 4-5 vege for a salad, here's some combos:
- baby spinach, grated red cabbage, tomato, cucumber, red capsicum (stuffed olives).
- any leafy greens, grated carrot and zucchini and radish (apple slices and ginger slivers)
- leafy greens, broccoli, avocado, red and yellow capsicum (orange slices)

Mix it up, there's no rules. If the colors look good, then it will be no doubt good for you.

Adding sliced fruit, ginger, or olives, can make things more palatable when someone is first getting into more 'bland' vege. Olives introduce a lot of salt, but over 3 mths they can be reduced.
Dressings balsamic vinegar or lemon/lime juice add flavor to everything, and usually negate the desire for salt.

What I have a lot of success with is sweet potato mash as a base, which is accompanied by either or both salad or steamed vege. The soy milk potato mash can have ginger, garlic, mixed spices, coriander, basil added and a mouthful of this with vege is agreeable to many.

Many vege avoiders will also be enticed by pouring white sauce over vege, or doing au gratin, especially cauliflower and broccoli.

And keep in mind frozen vege. When fresh is tired, frozen is fine. I keep a few bags from Aldi in the freezer (corn, broccoli, spinach blocks) and combine with rice or potato or legumes for a quick meal.

I suppose it comes down to your clients. You have to compromise more with some to entice them to make a habit of having vege with every lunch and dinner. Many people struggling with fatigue or bad habits find it too easy to default to a protein and starch meal, which is the most important habit to break.

[CKinnard]

Nobody, by market I mean health care prices and outcomes are growingly unsatisfactory to many. Many are looking for alternative solutions than yet another prescription med, or surgery. Many want a greater sense of control and involvement in their health and wellbeing. At TN last year, it was amazing to see people with chronic hypertension, high cholesterol, diabetes type 2, see all these things resolve without drugs. So market means both
- supply side is growingly unsatisfactory and distrusted due to profit and convenience motive.
- demand side is looking for more natural lifestyle choices for "therapy".

Re deadly nightshade, the category relates to shared alkaloid toxins usually in the leafy part of the plants (which deter herbivores). Tomato, potato, eggplant are members.

[mikesbytes]

nobody, the interest in Kj's was more to do with that being the only information easily available when purchasing fast food and therefor the primary metric being used for comparison, though I did add a little common sense

CK those salads sound really good and all the other info is quite useful. The person speaks little English and reading is even worse. My friend who has good nutritional knowledge managed to score what appears to be a very good book on LoGi cooking in their language when he was visiting and passed that on to me. The success of the book seemed a bit limited but none the less a small improvement is better than no improvement.

Now I'm toiling with the idea the of segmenting the food in an attempt to improve portion control and limit within the portion. I'm seeing 2 problems to encounter;
1. If something is good for you then 1kg of that must be even better. IE no understanding of optimum consumption. This is more to do with protein/fat but it does also apply to some carb based dishes and is more a discussion for the other diet thread.
2. Not understanding the difference between starch and fibre. Ignoring Avocado's and nuts for the moment, what if I did 2 categories;
2.1 Fibre such green salad and other greens
2.1 Starch such as potato and rice.
I see an affinity towards root and fruit style vegetables such as gord. Determining the boundary and hence what is on each side of the boundary is a big question with this approach. Perhaps a way to separate between the 2 categories would be to pick a Kj per 100gms figure and then segregate based on that. and other way would be with fibre density, more complicated again would be a combo of the two. However once the math's is done its simply a list

[CKinnard]

Mike, I can see how your mind is approaching this.
I did the same 20 years ago.
Over the years I kept on revisiting how best to dumb it down to communicate well with fatigued and depressed people who really need simple guidance.

Unlike Nobody who I believe still works via mass in the first instance, I turned to thinking of portions in terms of volume (cups specifically) for most ingredients. THis does away with the need for kitchen scales.

If you want better detail on how to guide clients to how much to eat, I can dumb it down for you.
I've shared this stuff before but when I want to structure an eating plan to meet a specific energy intake, following is the general algorithm and all dietitians and nutritionists work the same way. (though most rely on ready made tables derived from this:

Step 1
Determine the Calorie intake required for the specific goal (1kg wt loss/week, wt maintenance, etc)

Step 2
calculate recommended g/kg bwt of protein. I usually allow 1.2-1.5g/kg bwt for dieters spread over 3 meals, which helps preserve lean tissue, esp when combined with a modicum of resistance exercise.
determine portion sizes of protein rich foods to achieve most of this target. i.e. 100g raw animal flesh, 1/2 cup legumes, etc.
raw animal flesh is allocated 1.25Cals /gram (oily fish like salmon are 1.5Cals/g)
legumes are allocated 200 Cals per cup.
XL eggs 100 Cals
(btw, I have program that does all this automatically now....which allows me to focus more on the food likes and dislikes of clients when they are sitting in front of me. The point is though to get the portions concretely communicated to the client.

Step 3
designate a minimum number of cups of fibrous carb (vege, salad) and fruit. For people up to 60kg, I'll designate 6 cups vege and 2 cups of fruit. If the people are happier to eat these foods I might recommend 8 and 3. These are scaled up for heavier clients.
I use 25 Calories per cup of vege, whether steamed or raw. Some vege are slightly more and some less. It doesn't matter though because averaging errors are reduced over time (say one month). For fruit, I use 60 Cals per cup, minimizing denser fruit like bananas and mangoes.

Step 4
Add seeds or nuts for Omega 3. Usually this is no more than 1 tblspn of chia, flax, etc.

Step 5
Whatever shortfall you have in reaching desired energy intake for the day, fulfill with starchy foods - potato, grains, etc, Starch intake is highly variable depending on activity levels. If you have a young athletic guy trying to cut fat, who does 15 hours on the bike every week, he'll be taking a lot of starch.
However, your average Joe or Jill rarely does more than 3 hours of moderate cardio /week. (This excludes medium paced walking (up to 6kph).
For potatoes, I use 100 Cals per cup
For all cooked grains, I use 200 Cals per cup.
Bread is about 70-100 Cals per slice depending on type.

You can also allocate a 100-300 Cals to discretionary foods and make it the responsibility of the client to check Calorie content. If you have

Number of portions of each of the different food types is what most seek clarity on.
They want to know they are eating enough to stay healthy, but as little as is required to strip weight.

[CKinnard]

To get the most out of this video, you've had to have seen some of Goldhamer's previous videos. Or in the case of CK, know him.

haha. I don't recognize the woman to the left, but obviously Chef AJ behind the mask.
Many of the inner sanctum spend Christmas / NY break at TN.
It's a lot of fun according to most.
I think I've mentioned TN is very popular with many within the US Jewish community (fasting fits with their religious/cultural beliefs), and I know a lot of Jewish clients go there for Christmas, as they are not as big into family get togethers as Christians at that time.

There's a plaque on the wall behind AJ, for those who have donated $$$s+++. Some familiar names from Hollywood on it.

[mikesbytes]

CK you have pretty similar thinking to me and have done a great job of making it simple for people. Your post above is probably the best post of any of us in the 2 diet threads. It's simple and its sweet. I'll treat that as a target to get to (I've taken a copy so it doesn't get lost)

The step I've thinking of is portion control, which you have expressed as cups and that's a step better than the place I'm with, I'm looking at reducing the excess by increasing the good stuff and as I stated before they can't tell the difference between lettuce and potato and think that more is better in other areas. They aren't in a place for controlled calorie intake as it seems to me to be more of an addition so I've been slowly adjusting the addition. I'm actually thinking of buying a plate with raised areas and stating what can go in each segment. A quick google brought back this example

[CKinnard]

Yep, portion sized plates are a proven solution. It's how defense force messes used to control the food troops would eat. Then US schools did the same back in the 40s and 50s. This is all when food was more valued and waste was avoided.

I actually looked at bringing out a range of them in the 90s, but decided against it because I realized many people are uncertain how high to stack the plates!

I also looked into partitioned lunch boxes for kids and adults. But realized it's just more simple to drive home the no. of cups concept...then a 1-2 liter decor container will suffice.


The cups thing works really well. A meal plan will reduce to a dinner recommendation such as
- 100g meat (or 1/2 cup legumes)
- 1 cup mashed potato (or 1/2cup grain)
- 4 cups vege
There's nothing ambiguous about that, and it is easy to remember for the rest of one's life.

That meal can be prepared as a stir fry or just steamed. Discretionary Calories can cover commercial sauces added.