Plant Based Diet Thread

[Nobody]

Nice find Nobody.

Thanks.

I am planning to get over there again this year.

For another fast? If so, how long this time?

[Nobody]

My brother decided to up his protein intake and did it by increasing nut intake. Presumably he adjusted in calorie intake elsewhere

This doesn't appear to be a very calorie efficient way to add protein compared to say green peas. For the same total calories, peas have 69% more protein than high protein almonds for the same calories. If you take out the fibre, then peas' advantage increases to 145% more protein. Kidney beans would be marginally more than peas.

I'm sure he has his reasons for choosing nuts to add protein. So I'd be interested to hear what they are. Beans are usually the first choice of many plant based eaters for added protein.

[CKinnard]

For another fast? If so, how long this time?

if I fast it would be for no more than 12 days.
primary purpose is a deeper internship.
they are doing better data analysis and building a better clinical pathway algorithm.

[mikesbytes]

My brother decided to up his protein intake and did it by increasing nut intake. Presumably he adjusted in calorie intake elsewhere

This doesn't appear to be a very calorie efficient way to add protein compared to say green peas. For the same total calories, peas have 69% more protein than high protein almonds for the same calories. If you take out the fibre, then peas' advantage increases to 145% more protein. Kidney beans would be marginally more than peas.

I'm sure he has his reasons for choosing nuts to add protein. So I'd be interested to hear what they are. Beans are usually the first choice of many plant based eaters for added protein.

Likes the taste of nuts

[Nobody]

What I got from this video is the confirmation that prebiotics are more important than probiotics, since prebiotics both encourage and sustain the beneficial bacteria. Probiotics might be beneficial for the introduction of certain bacteria, but won't thrive without the prebiotics.

[CKinnard]

The pre's and pro's are one aspect.
Moisture content, peristalsis, rest,immune state are also important.

These are influenced by neural inputs, hydration status, sleep quality, stress levels, viral/bacterial load.

[ball bearing]

I am very sorry for him as an individual - although I do hope he resumes his vegan diet that he abandoned years ago because he claimed he needed meat and rebuilds his health...

"..."The Biggest Loser" star Bob Harper suffered a serious heart attack two weeks ago and is lucky to be alive, he revealed on Monday, Feb. 27...."

http://www.msn.com/en-au/entertainment/ ... spartandhp

"...Harper ended his vegan diet when it became clear that his performance at the gym was “really lacking.” Like Anne Hathaway, he sensed that his body needed animal protein for power, and claims feeling “better” and “stronger” consuming meat. Harper confessed the shame and guilt he experienced when he started eating animal foods again: “In the beginning, I was quietly eating my egg whites in the morning. Oh my God, I felt so bad. I just couldn’t help it. I just couldn’t hide it anymore. It works for me.”..."

http://www.paleoplan.com/2015/01-02/sta ... gan-paleo/

[mikesbytes]

I am very sorry for him as an individual - although I do hope he resumes his vegan diet that he abandoned years ago because he claimed he needed meat and rebuilds his health...

"..."The Biggest Loser" star Bob Harper suffered a serious heart attack two weeks ago and is lucky to be alive, he revealed on Monday, Feb. 27...."

http://www.msn.com/en-au/entertainment/ ... spartandhp

"...Harper ended his vegan diet when it became clear that his performance at the gym was “really lacking.” Like Anne Hathaway, he sensed that his body needed animal protein for power, and claims feeling “better” and “stronger” consuming meat. Harper confessed the shame and guilt he experienced when he started eating animal foods again: “In the beginning, I was quietly eating my egg whites in the morning. Oh my God, I felt so bad. I just couldn’t help it. I just couldn’t hide it anymore. It works for me.”..."

http://www.paleoplan.com/2015/01-02/sta ... gan-paleo/

Shame to hear he had a heart attack, glad he survived it.

From the way the article is written it strikes me as someone who is looking for the silver bullet. He has jumped from, for want of a better term from complete left field to complete right field. I'm gathering that rather than looking at what was working for him and what wasn't working for him, he as simply thrown everything out regardless of whether it was good or bad for him

BTW we are a bit off topic, Nobody set this thread up to help those who wanted plant based dietary advice. the Diet thread is probably a better place to debate one diet vs another

[CKinnard]

Ben Harper: hmmmm

When considering contributions to his heart attack, you have to cast a wide net.
- he says they run in his family, so there's genetic inputs. not necessarily. families often eat the same diet, good or bad...and Bob grew up on the family cattle ranch.
- congenital heart issues such as malformed heart valves increase risk of heart attack.
- illicit drug abuse. amphetamine, growth hormone, steroid, cocaine, and caffeine class drugs are associated with increased heart attacks. His workmate Jillian Michaels is certainly guilt of some of the above, as are many in the more strength is better business.
- he had very high cholesterol levels before going vegan, which dropped those levels significantly. The pre levels indicate either or both of a crap diet and genetic predisposition.
- the guy is now 52, and no doubt drives himself hard with resistance exercise to counter decreasing levels of testosterone and its effect on loss of lean tissue. regular very heavy resistance work does push blood pressure, esp if you hold your breath in accord with bro science convention.
- Bob has been a strong advocate for cross fit for decades. In my view, cross fit proponents and philosophy more often than not push people to unsafe levels of simultaneous cardio and resistance effort, which stresses cardiac output and BP.
- Bob was a vegan for about 2.5 years. mid 2010 to end of 2012.
- not necessarily related to heart attacks and diet, but Bob is gay, which may surprise a few people and disappoint a few women. But gay guys tend to have more recreational/gym time due to being childless.

My impression is if you look at the quality of his diet over his whole life, it has probably been pretty ordinary and loaded with animal proteins, and low on vegetables and fruit as is the convention in the USA. He has also pushed his body more than most considering his income depends on being cut and built. I'd also say probability favors him having indulged in party and performance drugs.

[ball bearing]

- Bob was a vegan for about 2.5 years. mid 2010 to end of 2012.

Oh, I didn't know that. That's a very small percentage of his lifetime eating habits. It does dismay me that so many people call themselves vegan depending on if they have eaten animal products on that particular day. The hip terminology like flexitarian and reducetarian have muddied the waters.

[CKinnard]

yeah I've seen well inside the LA and Californian vegan scene. many younger celebrities always looking for an exposure edge get involved in trending topics, as veganism was a few years ago. most are lucky to last 18 months. being strict vegan doesn't fit being an adrenalin driven late night party girl/boy very well at all. and strength fitness men rarely go vegan because of the protein=strength thing. Most 'strength' aficionados know stuff all about longevity studies.

older celebs though do get into veganism more long term for genuine health reasons (after knocking themselves around for 20+ years)

[Nobody]

[CKinnard]

In the Australian Dietary Guidelines, 5 and 2 is a recommended minimum intake!
and 98% of Australians don't even get that.


http://www.gofor2and5.com.au/WhatisaSer ... fault.aspx

"How many serves of fruit and vegetables should I eat?

The minimum recommended intake of vegetables for adults is 5-6 serves per day.
The minimum recommended intake of fruit for adults is 2 serves per day."

[Nobody]

In the Australian Dietary Guidelines, 5 and 2 is a recommended minimum intake!
and 98% of Australians don't even get that.


http://www.gofor2and5.com.au/WhatisaSer ... fault.aspx

"How many serves of fruit and vegetables should I eat?

The minimum recommended intake of vegetables for adults is 5-6 serves per day.
The minimum recommended intake of fruit for adults is 2 serves per day."

As you know, the Australian Dietary Guideline serves are different (75g for veg and 150g for fruit) to what she specified in the video (80g a serve for both fruit & veg). So the AU recommendations of 6 and 2 work out to be 9.375 serves for the video. That's pretty close to the 10 serves she was saying which was close to the optimal minimum IIRC.
According to the 80g serves of the video, I got 60 serves of fruit and veg today. So 10 serves should be pretty easy to get.

[CKinnard]

yep, thanks for that. I only cross checked the vege and thought near enough close enough.

I don't know where she pulled 80g a serve of fruit from, though I note she includes fruit JUICES in fruit servings.
The USDA fruit serve guidelines say 1 cup, which is a little under one of our cups, so is more like 150g per US fruit serve.

https://www.choosemyplate.gov/fruit

[Nobody]

Interesting to see Barnard's position on multi-vitamins change over the years. I thought I read in one of his books to take a multi daily. Now they are focusing more on B12 and vit-D. The impression I got from the video as a whole was not to take a multi.

I'm currently taking 1000 mcg of methyl B12 daily. I prefer not to take vit-D if I can keep my sun exposure up. I only want to take what I need considering there is some evidence that artificial supplements can do harm (as can be seen in videos below). Where the article below says that getting more non-burning exposure to sunshine reduces the risk of skin cancer.
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/some-di ... -of-money/
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/industr ... not-pills/
http://www.curetoday.com/articles/sensi ... tudy-finds

They didn't mention that B12 is also a key requirement for the processing/reduction of homocysteine. Testing for homocysteine can be a way of testing for active B12 in plant based eaters, since we usually get plenty of the other required vitamins (B6 and folate).

An issue they didn't appear to mention in relation to vit-D is increased auto-immune problems with low vit-D. I developed eczema in the winter of 2015. I also logged what I ate to find it was in response to certain foods. From reading I believe the eczema was highly likely due to low vit-D (and/or lack of sun exposure, since there is another beneficial immune system response with exposure to sun shine). Once I significantly increased my sun exposure, the eczema symptoms slowly went away. AFAIK nothing else changed.

[CKinnard]

Re supps, their advice might vary based on age group and co-morbidities.
In general I support supps with age. Many don't appreciate digestion and absorption function degenerates along with everything else with age. I think you can make a case for eating less raw food and more soups and steamed vege with age too (to pre-digest your nutrition more so).
Once you start comprehending everything degenerates, you start to appreciate more so the need not to prematurely wear out these systems by overeating...and the benefits of fasting become more apparent.

I was aware Vit. D has a strong influence on immune function, and in fact just raised it with my GP on my last visit...so he included it in my bloods. and it was fine. I tend to average 4-5 hours of exposure a week before 10am in short sleeved lycra kit.

[thatmdee]

My partner and I have been vegetarian for around 4 - 5 years now, but drastically need to improve our diet. We've been eating a lot of meat substitutes (think the various Quorn products, Vegie Delights, etc)... This has often resulted in vegie burgers, sausage sandwiches, etc with a fair amount of carbs in the form of white bread.

I really want to come up with a good meal plan and possibly try and lost a little weight and help my fitness if possible. I'm 167cm tall, and 72kg -- I track my fitness with a Garmin, and end up doing 30 - 60 minutes exercise a day, 5-6 days a week (all cycling at the moment). I've found over the last few years that I seem to have just hit a weight plateau, so want to ramp up the exercise a little more and certainly fix my diet.

I'm struggling to know where to start. Am I best just going on to EdX or a similar open courseware site, picking a video series on nutrition, and going through it?

The main problem I've encountered is finding a good vegetarian meal plan. Most plans out there cater toward meat eaters. On top of that, there is a lot of misinformation online, making it all the more difficult. Hell, I've come across work colleagues that have gone to nutritionists and been told questionable things at times..

[Nobody]

My partner and I have been vegetarian for around 4 - 5 years now, but drastically need to improve our diet.

So do you currently eat eggs and dairy products, or are you are strict_vegetarian/vegan?

I really want to come up with a good meal plan and possibly try and lose a little weight and help my fitness if possible.

I suppose it comes down to what you define as a good meal plan and how serious you are. There are all kinds of variables that people value in a diet. Much of which isn't necessarily productive in getting to the end goal.
Mine is to keep it simple with my end goals in mind. For example, I eat quite simply without much preparation for most foods and eat similar foods every day. Below are some principles to help with weight loss.
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=83496&p=1385655#p1385655

I'm struggling to know where to start. Am I best just going on to EdX or a similar open courseware site, picking a video series on nutrition, and going through it?

I agree with your statement below that there is a lot of misinformation, so the need to be careful.
Below is a basic plan:
https://share.kaiserpermanente.org/wp-c ... ooklet.pdf
I'll wait for your reply before I recommend anything further.

The main problem I've encountered is finding a good vegetarian meal plan. Most plans out there cater toward meat eaters. On top of that, there is a lot of misinformation online, making it all the more difficult. Hell, I've come across work colleagues that have gone to nutritionists and been told questionable things at times..

Unfortunately in a world of deception and misinformation, you're effectively on your own. However in the end you have to choose to start trusting some people or group. Otherwise you're unlikely to progress well or as fast. I obviously chose to go whole foods, plant based. Which really is a whole foods, plant only diet in practice. I'm also currently SOS, which mean sugar, oil and added salt free. So far it's worked well for me, but I've had a few challenges along the way. In October it will be 4 years since going vegan. I progressed to whole foods and SOS later.

[CKinnard]

Many people go out and buy vego cookbooks created by ppl who are not realistic about how much time (and skill) people want to invest in food.

Honestly, like Nobody, I eat pretty simply 98% of the time.
i.e.
Breakfast
fruit and a flat white soy coffee.
porridge with nuts and seeds
muesli with fruit
avo on toast
legumes, mushies, eggplant on toast

Lunch
salad, salad, salad with leftover legume based dishes or a pocket bread.
or leftovers including a lot of vege.

Dinner
legume dishes with vege or salad, and a starch like mashed sweet potato/pumpkin, colored rices, wholemeal pasta (rarely).
tofu and vege stir fry
soups.
(sometimes I don't bother with legumes and just have starch and vege, especially sweet potato or rice)

fruit +/- nuts for snacks.

If you are adapted to more standard faire, then it may take a few months for your taste buds to re-sensitize.....but it does DEFINITELY happen. What you found bland a few months earlier will eventually be very satisfying.

I am not perfect though. I still add stuffed olives to salads and legume dishes which add salt.
I've had a lot of vego friends over the years with kids, and I swear to you the kids are happy with this stuff if adapted to it.

Don't worry about not knowing how to do dozens of recipes. Just focus on 3 quick basics such as legume stew type things and getting mash interesting (sweet and white potato with ginger, garlic, and chili added made on soy milk). You'll find there's only so many themes for preparing meals, and all the thousands of meals on the internet are just variants on those themes.

BTW, I am not 100% vegan. I eat a piece of salmon once every 2-3 weeks currently, and 100g of beef every 3-4 weeks.

[Nobody]

[CKinnard]

I like that young english dietitian. He sums things and backs them up with studies very nicely.

Re red cabbage, I don't think I have mentioned it on BNA before. But if you are ever interested in measuring the pH of your urine, you can ballpark it using the juice of a red cabbage. You blend up the cabbage with a bit of water, then squeeze the mixture through a muslin cloth. Then add about 10mls of it to a beaker or glass, and add about 5-10ml of your urine. pH is reflected in the color change. It really works! I have definitely found that my urine goes more alkaline when I am consuming at least 6 cups of vege and not doing junk, alcohol, or too much grains. Drinking a solution of 1 tspn sodium bicarb in 500mls will also send your pee blue.

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/testin ... e-cabbage/

[RhapsodyX]

...
fruit and a flat white soy coffee.
...

[Nobody]

The below video is called "The Perfect Personality", but it's not what you may initially think. It's relative to being able to stick with and succeed on a WFPB diet. Doug briefly explains that different personalities are ideally suited to different occupations/tasks. This is an extension to the book "The Pleasure Trap", since the book didn't cover these attributes.

I found it worthwhile to watch. But then I've tended to find psychology interesting of late (even though I've always thought of it as a more vague/soft science).



Because I'm going to forget, I've listed the 5 attributes below.

Open to experience
Conscientious
Extroversion
Agreeableness
Stability
(plus intelligence)

From what I got from the video, the ideal personality to succeed on this style of diet has the following:

Open to experience - LOW
Conscientious - HIGH
Extroversion - LOW
Agreeableness - LOW
Stability - HIGH

Or just see it in the video at about 29 minutes.
https://youtu.be/QUiH8yeTx0w?t=28m59s

Fortunately for me, I'm pretty close to the above. I'm happy to eat simple foods every day. I'm strongly committed to this. Introverted. Quite disagreeable by nature, but I've learnt some social skills over the years. Quite high in personality stability. I can see myself still doing this diet style in 20 years.

[CKinnard]

A little synchronicity here. Two of my favorite utubers are Mark Steyn (public intellectual) and Jordan Peterson (psychology professor).

Jordan is putting up some of his lectures on personality, which cross over into what Doug is getting into.

Egads, I just saw that Gustavo is interviewing. He might be a great pianist, but he is too long winded and touchy feely for me. I had a few good chats with him at TN as he was there for 3 weeks doing a cleanse, and I found him the same in real life. sometimes you just have to call it how you see it