My heart attack - Are you as healthy as you think?
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Re: My heart attack - Are you as healthy as you think?
Postby ball bearing » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:03 pm
My entire birth family have very poor health. My father and mother died in a diseased state. I am the exception after 44 years of a meat free diet. Coincidence? I don'think so.
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Re: My heart attack - Are you as healthy as you think?
Postby battler2 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:03 pm
forgot to mention we don't have sharp teeth.True and the argument has been had in other threads. The argument and information is also muddied by vested interests in the food industry.
We have the digestive tract of a herbivorous animal. Our closest genetic relatives are largely herbivorous and only supplement their diets with animal protein. That is as complex as it needs to be for me.
Sure there are genetic differences between us however we are remarkably similar to each other and our GI tracts are remarkably similar to that of the great apes.
Some are more predisposed to coronary artery disease though, true.
I dont think if you are less predisposed it gives the green light to chow down on t-bone steak and salami daily.
and that i have a bbq which negates all of the above.
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Re: My heart attack - Are you as healthy as you think?
Postby TonyB » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:49 am
A couple of years ago a mate had a Heart Attack on me while out riding, fortunately he survived and is back on his bike.
Big bro had a couple of stents put in earlier this year, I got checked out recently and all good, very happy as 7 years ago I had treatment for AF.
Tony
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Re: My heart attack - Are you as healthy as you think?
Postby CKinnard » Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:37 am
That's a slippery slope. You mean next time you are severely injured, you are going to tell the paramedics you don't want methoxyflurane, ketamine, morphine, or fentanyl because you can't be sure it will work on you because one size doesn't fit all?cyclotaur wrote:Good question. Leaving aside everything (including, and especially, personal opinions and preferences) I reckon it comes down to ...warthog1 wrote:Apart from expressing a dislike of vegans what is it you are trying to say here?
..battler2 wrote:...remember, there is no 'one size fits all' approach...
Let's keep in mind modern medicine's success is due to 'one size fitting all' more than it doesn't.
Just because a heart attack can happen with various metrics being normal, it doesn't discount that congenital diseases such as valve irregularities, and nervous system dysregulation are not exacerbated or brought forward in time due to the effects of poor diet (and other adverse lifestyle choices).
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Re: My heart attack - Are you as healthy as you think?
Postby mikesbytes » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:21 am
Hey Colin, while a distant second (or third) to the heart attack, how did your back go with the fall and CPR?
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Re: My heart attack - Are you as healthy as you think?
Postby warthog1 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:55 am
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Re: My heart attack - Are you as healthy as you think?
Postby cyclotaur » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:58 am
No - that's a different issue, i.e. acute and emergency medicine where, as you rightly point out, the 'one size fits all' approach is generally very successful.CKinnard wrote:That's a slippery slope. You mean next time you are severely injured, you are going to tell the paramedics you don't want methoxyflurane, ketamine, morphine, or fentanyl because you can't be sure it will work on you because one size doesn't fit all?cyclotaur wrote:Good question. Leaving aside everything (including, and especially, personal opinions and preferences) I reckon it comes down to ...warthog1 wrote:Apart from expressing a dislike of vegans what is it you are trying to say here?
..battler2 wrote:...remember, there is no 'one size fits all' approach...
Let's keep in mind modern medicine's success is due to 'one size fitting all' more than it doesn't.
Just because a heart attack can happen with various metrics being normal, it doesn't discount that congenital diseases such as valve irregularities, and nervous system dysregulation are not exacerbated or brought forward in time due to the effects of poor diet (and other adverse lifestyle choices).
I was just talking about the choices we have over our diet and lifestyle.
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Re: My heart attack - Are you as healthy as you think?
Postby ColinOldnCranky » Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:47 pm
No-one appears to have witnessed the actual moments of the heart attack and I can't remember anything of the five hours before nor several days after. As far as I know I would have stepped off the uni if I had any warning and even it I passed out on the uni, at the place it happened, and which I have ridden many times, I would have been going even slower than my normal negotiating curb and path. Falling of would have been a gentle thing and I had no bruising, no gravel rash, no sprains, etc. Just bruised and cracked ribs from the CPR from 20 minutes of CPR and two (or more) jolts of high voltage.mikesbytes wrote:The generic discussion on whether Vegan is good or not would fit better in the diet thread or a new thread on its own
Hey Colin, while a distant second (or third) to the heart attack, how did your back go with the fall and CPR?
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Re: My heart attack - Are you as healthy as you think?
Postby mikesbytes » Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:10 pm
Hows the ticker and blood going now?
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Re: My heart attack - Are you as healthy as you think?
Postby ColinOldnCranky » Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:29 pm
Three weeks ago I had to do an overnighter at a sleep lab. They put a cuff on me which automatically inflates, takes my BP and pulse and then rests for a minute of so before repeating another five times. A duress alarm went off after each cycle which initially caused the technician to hurry back to see what was wrong. My heart rate was 44 which, on many people, may indicate a problem. In my case I have always maintained a strong heart and pulse and BP that is not much different than when I was 20 and far better than most. A lot of cyclists here would be the same.mikesbytes wrote:So no additional trauma to existing (known) issues. That's good, assuming I'm allowed to use the word 'good' in this thread
Hows the ticker and blood going now?
I had to see my GP on unrelated matters a week ago. He took the ususal readings of BP, pulse, chest adn breathing function. He still feels guilty about charging me, he figures that he does nothing for me.
According to my cardiologist I have no more risk now than I ever did. But I will probably be on statins for life as apparently I lay down plaque even at reasonably low cholesterol levels in my blood.
However, as per my OP, with the best metrics in the world one should not allow one to take ongoing health for granted. So I'm being a bit more cautious with what I eat.
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Re: My heart attack - Are you as healthy as you think?
Postby Cowcorner » Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:56 pm
Cheers all.
iPhone - Nature's enemy to the bicycle bell
Airzound - Nature's enemy to the iPhone
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Re: My heart attack - Are you as healthy as you think?
Postby foo on patrol » Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:53 pm
Foo
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Re: My heart attack - Are you as healthy as you think?
Postby CKinnard » Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:47 am
Thought I'd add a couple of pertinent resources about better predicting your heart attack risk.
Lipid panels should not be relied on as they do not predict risk well for over 50% of people who have MIs....but medicine is conservative and it will take another 10-15 years before the convention changes.
Coronary Artery calcium scan predicts much better, and should cost under $200 out of pocket in Australia ($150 at my local radiologist).
https://youtu.be/U_Gcq8bEUq8?t=21m30s
And world leaders like Cleveland Heart Lab have better blood markers for stratifying cardiovascular disease risk.
http://www.knowyourrisk.com/
Either way, these are just risk indicators.
But hopefully you'll change your lifestyle if your risk is worse than expected.
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Re: My heart attack - Are you as healthy as you think?
Postby Mububban » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:58 pm
Can any GP give you a referral for this test? My dad had a quadruple bypass around age 60, I'm almost 40 so I think I should start checking this sort of thing every few years.CKinnard wrote:Coronary Artery calcium scan predicts much better, and should cost under $200 out of pocket in Australia ($150 at my local radiologist).
https://youtu.be/U_Gcq8bEUq8?t=21m30s
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Re: My heart attack - Are you as healthy as you think?
Postby Nobody » Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:59 pm
Yes. I got one from my GP, but never went through with it for the reasons cited below.Mububban wrote:Can any GP give you a referral for this test?
The Cleveland link that CK put up is a good place to start as a guide. If your inflammation blood markers are high, then a scan may be worthwhile. From the studies and information below, it can be seen that hsCRP is a useful inflammation marker. Since there are larger differences between those who do and don't have CAD than other markers in the studies.Mububban wrote:My dad had a quadruple bypass around age 60, I'm almost 40 so I think I should start checking this sort of thing every few years.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3038964/
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/ja ... 23465/_pdf
http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/109/16/1955.full
http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/108/12/e81.full
CAC screening may be useful, but it can give you a very large radiation dose. Also if you do decide to have one, avoid the radioactive contrast injection if you are just getting a CAC for screening purposes.
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Re: My heart attack - Are you as healthy as you think?
Postby CKinnard » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:49 pm
CAC screening radiation dose has reduced in recent years, to the point it is lower than mammography and low dose lung scans.Nobody wrote:Yes. I got one from my GP, but never went through with it for the reasons cited below.Mububban wrote:Can any GP give you a referral for this test?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4789203/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25381303
And for many, a picture is more persuasive than a thousand words of dietary advice!
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Re: My heart attack - Are you as healthy as you think?
Postby Nobody » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:34 pm
Can't argue with that. But regardless of my results, my resolve would have remained the same. No benefit for the added risk in my case.CKinnard wrote:And for many, a picture is more persuasive than a thousand words of dietary advice!
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Re: My heart attack - Are you as healthy as you think?
Postby CKinnard » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:05 pm
And if your diet has been pretty average over the years, and vegan seems too extreme, consider just smashing the vegetables 2-3 times a day. Some authorities personally eat more than 10 cups of colored vege and leafy greens most days.Mububban wrote:Can any GP give you a referral for this test? My dad had a quadruple bypass around age 60, I'm almost 40 so I think I should start checking this sort of thing every few years.CKinnard wrote:Coronary Artery calcium scan predicts much better, and should cost under $200 out of pocket in Australia ($150 at my local radiologist).
https://youtu.be/U_Gcq8bEUq8?t=21m30s
A higher intake of vege (than the std Western diet) is a common factor in Paleo, and low and high carb diets.
edit:
Nobody, I'll have to disagree with Pam Popper and others who say CACS is pointless, overservicing, or doesn't change outcomes.
This ignores clinical reality. Many conscientious people trying to do the right thing lifestyle wise are lulled into a very false sense of security by lipid panels....and blindly continue on with a diet that quietly robs them of enduring functionality.
For many, an abnormal CAC score (or coronary angiogram) and heart image, is a significant shock, and strong motivator, stronger than dietary advice. Some just respond more powerfully to imaging than blood marker numbers.
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Re: My heart attack - Are you as healthy as you think?
Postby Nobody » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:40 am
I was looking through the health section of ABC's site and came across the following article on calcium scores. It might be of some benefit to those who are weighing up whether to get one or not.CKinnard wrote:And for many, a picture is more persuasive than a thousand words of dietary advice!
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-10/f ... se/9023960
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Re: My heart attack - Are you as healthy as you think?
Postby CKinnard » Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:21 pm
So the brunt of the CAC denier message, is that they prefer the status quo, which gives around 50% of people killed by cardiovascular disease the false security that they are not high risk.Nobody wrote:I was looking through the health section of ABC's site and came across the following article on calcium scores. It might be of some benefit to those who are weighing up whether to get one or not.CKinnard wrote:And for many, a picture is more persuasive than a thousand words of dietary advice!
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-10/f ... se/9023960
Predictive testing has its shortcomings, and strengths. It's a pity this article didn't focus on both for CACs, and the status quo.
Naturally the earlier we can pick up evidence of cardiovascular disease the better.....if and only if health care professionals can convert those results into healthy lifestyle changes.
And this issue highlights the problem with nationalized health. Those who genuinely want top health advice and guidance re longevity and robust health, are outnumbered to a ridiculous degree by those who don't value that advice and guidance. Ergo, health policy bean counters are more inclined to say outcomes don't substantiate tax payer dollar investment in such things.
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Re: My heart attack - Are you as healthy as you think?
Postby Nobody » Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:22 pm
Which is what the medical system mainly does when it comes to long term lifestyle induced chronic diseases. I think McDougall said something like "They give you a bag of pills and a bunch of excuses". We both know one has to significantly change their lifestyle to affect real benefit. But since almost no one wants to eat like you or I, what the MDs prescribe is what they're left with.CKinnard wrote:So the brunt of the CAC denier message, is that they prefer the status quo, which gives around 50% of people killed by cardiovascular disease the false security that they are not high risk.
If only they were trained properly to do it. But since medical associations opposed changes to mandatory education of MDs to include effective dietary education in the US, we know that the industry as a whole is more focused on money than people's well-being.CKinnard wrote:Naturally the earlier we can pick up evidence of cardiovascular disease the better.....if and only if health care professionals can convert those results into healthy lifestyle changes.
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/medica ... -training/
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Re: My heart attack - Are you as healthy as you think?
Postby CKinnard » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:54 pm
I'd settle for MDs to at least know the power of lifestyle change to heal.Nobody wrote: If only they were trained properly to do it. But since medical associations opposed changes to mandatory education of MDs to include effective dietary education in the US, we know that the industry as a whole is more focused on money than people's well-being.
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/medica ... -training/
Then they could 'refer on' appropriately, rather than prescribe pills.
Personally, I think the major religions are going to have to initiate the healthy lifestyle choices revolution.
The SDAs have set the bar very successfully, and The Daniel Plan has been successful in many congregations.
Fancy that hey? religion having to do what medicine and nationalized health care cannot.
To my mind, not only has junk food and alcohol replaced religion as the opiate of the masses....but also medicine!
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