Health impact of a cloud of diesel exhaust particulates of illegal magnitude?

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TheShadow
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Health impact of a cloud of diesel exhaust particulates of illegal magnitude?

Postby TheShadow » Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:51 pm

I've read the health impact of cycling in bad car pollution is far worse than eating a diet comprised entirely of junk food. And there's a lot of finger-pointing at small vehicle diesel engines currently - Volkswagen springs to mind.

But even the French govt. have openly admitted diesel cars are so bad for the health of humans that they are drastically cutting back, or ceasing, production of the small diesels their governement-subsidised car industry made. In the UK, London is considering introducing a tax for diesel cars entering London, because they are such major contributors to air pollution that has gotten so bad that literally thousands of people are thought to be dying from it every year.

And this is for 'clean' modern diesels that have expensive Particulate Filters in the exhaust system, and expensive, high tech fuel injection that prevents visible smoke and pollution coming out the exhaust pipe. You can't see it so easily anymore, but it's still far worse than what comes out the tail pipe of an unleaded petrol engine car.

So, how would you feel if you're labouring away up an 8-10% climb, with a moderate to high heart rate, and a small diesel vehicle (ie not proper commercial truck) drives slowly past you leaving a thick cloud of grey-black smoke hanging in the air between the trees? It doesn't disperse very quickly due to the trees and you have to ride slowly through it for the next 100m. You can almost see and taste the diesel and oil particles in the air. It can't be good. It's enough to make you want to abandon the climb and do a quick u-turn to descend and try get away from it.

Does anyone even have any idea of how bad this is for your health, medically speaking?

Say you're at your VO2 max when you inhale it into your lungs. There are poisonous gasses and tiny diesel particulates also potentially able to breach the membranes and enter your blood? And the bigger diesel particulates simply lodge in your lungs, like cigarette tar?

I've seen online some of the (usually futile) attempts to clean out or burn off clogged Diesel Particulate Filters in cars, AND IT LOOKS LIKE TAR. It does not look like something you either want in your lungs, or like it is something you'll ever get OUT of your lungs once it's gotten in there.

Trevtassie
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Re: Health impact of a cloud of diesel exhaust particulates of illegal magnitude?

Postby Trevtassie » Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:55 pm

Yep, PM2.5, nano particles that go straight to the depths of your lungs and kill you dead... maybe... eventually if you suck back enough of them. Too small for the cillia in your lungs to chuck back out.
Since manufacturers have got their act together with direct injection petrol engines, the need for small automotive diesels isn't there any more realistically.

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RonK
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Re: Health impact of a cloud of diesel exhaust particulates of illegal magnitude?

Postby RonK » Fri Oct 14, 2016 6:09 pm

It probably wouldn't bother me much. I quite like the smell of diesel smoke actually.
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TheShadow
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Re: Health impact of a cloud of diesel exhaust particulates of illegal magnitude?

Postby TheShadow » Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:18 pm

I'll admit I used to have an affection for the smell of burnt 2-stroke motorcycle engine oil. It smells like high speed racing machines. But there's no place for them on the roads anymore. There are fuel injected 4 stroke motorcycle engines that got phased out because they couldn't meet ever stricter emission limits, and they were probably proportionately cleaner than any of the small diesel engines that have been sold in the last 10 years.

I think it's a lot worse than most people realise. There's a lot more nasty stuff in it than the smoke of a basic campfire, and even that is not something to inhale on purpose as in when the wind changes and everyone has to change positions around the fire.

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Mulger bill
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Re: Health impact of a cloud of diesel exhaust particulates of illegal magnitude?

Postby Mulger bill » Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:33 pm

Liquid coal...
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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warthog1
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Re: Health impact of a cloud of diesel exhaust particulates of illegal magnitude?

Postby warthog1 » Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:13 pm

Dogs are the best people :wink:

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Comedian
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Re: Health impact of a cloud of diesel exhaust particulates of illegal magnitude?

Postby Comedian » Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:20 am

I don't know specifics on this but I'm aware of the issue. Local busses here were CNG but there were issues, and they are progressively phasing them out and moving back to diesel.

As to diesel cars... I really dislike them. We bought a new petrol car earlier this year, and it's so economical that I really do struggle with why financially you would even bother buying the diesel version. I think the thing that concerns me though is that Australia is pretty much at 50% of the vehicle new vehicles that are being bought are SUV's.. the ABS says has stats on this. http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf ... enDocument

I think that thanks to VW the diesel car is probably on the way out.. however the trend to SUV's is far more worrying. These vehicles are more suited to diesel. With diesel engines they are sufficiently economical that families buy them. They often get environmental exceptions because of their class. Manufacturers love them as they are bigger vehicles that they can charge more for and make higher margins. In short they are going to be an ongoing problem for some time. I can't see this changing in the near term, and with fuel prices down I think it will accentuate the trend.

To the OP.. I'm not sure what the answer is. What do you do? People just don't care. They love their SUV's. I think this is falls into the same basket as climate change. For many.. unless they can see an immediate consequence they won't change their behaviour.

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CXCommuter
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Re: Health impact of a cloud of diesel exhaust particulates of illegal magnitude?

Postby CXCommuter » Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:52 am

I am sure there is a study showing the ingested volume of particulates is higher for motorists in traffic than pedestrians/ cyclists. Air conditioners have their inlets immediately adjacent to the car in fronts exhaust. And motorists are in a confined space whereas cyclists are in open air allowing dissipation.
Regardless the stuff is nasty and not good for you, but the key would be the ingestion rate plenty of things are really bad for you (in fact one could argue everyything is bad for you at the wrong dose) but the rate of application is key the most extreme example could be seen as chemotherapy
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fat and old
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Re: Health impact of a cloud of diesel exhaust particulates of illegal magnitude?

Postby fat and old » Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:40 am

I've always found it sorta ironic that the people who'd be the most vocally and ethically opposed to this seem to be concentrated in areas where streetside dining is most popular. My wife loves her paseo but flat refuses to deal with the exhausts

VinceGU05
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Re: Health impact of a cloud of diesel exhaust particulates of illegal magnitude?

Postby VinceGU05 » Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:27 am

ride on bike paths and get off the road. or do MTB riding amongst the trees and fresh air.transit vans, trucks and heavy 4x4's are way worse than the small diesel engine cars.


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