Epic Build

[Bnej]

I presume "The Brain" is some kind of inertia valve like the Fox Terralogic forks?

[Mulger bill]

Now that is hot! Stealth just looks right

If that doesn't get noticed Graeme, an eye test is in order

Shaun

[Kalgrm]

Took it for a ride on the dirt today. All I can say is "WOW!"

I mean WOW!

Climbs like my hard tail, tracks like it's on rails. Even the soft sandy track was taken in its stride. I think I'm in love.

Now that there is action in the rear, it seems like the fork (a RS Tora Air, which I loved before) has finally found a soul mate. The whole thing works beautifully.

Dean, we need to swap calipers: yours would be perfect for the cable run they've put on this bike. The hose would be in a straight line going up the seat stay, completely out of harm's way. What brake is it? I may be in the market when my hose finally tears.

Bnej, you got it - it's just like the TerraLogic fork.

Shaun, thanks for noticing. Of course, you know why someone might go blind with this svelt lady in the shed .....

Cheers,
Graeme

[Deanj]

Sounds like you enjoyed yourself!! Be heading out myself for a proper test ride in an hour. The brakes are avid juicy ultimate 7.

[Kalgrm]

Yeah, same here. Up to the 12 hour track at Jarrahdale with some mates for about 36km of sweet single trail, some of which will be in the dark. Guess I'll sleep well tonight!

Have fun.
Graeme

[gsxrboy]

My only misgiving during the build has been this stress bend in the brake line. The Hayes HFX-9 brake callipers have the hydraulic line coming straight out and into the Brain canister. It's not good, and I need to find some sort of corner adaptor to provide a bend in the hose.

Dumb question, but can't you just swap the bleed nipple over for the line input, both the same height and everything, might be worth a shot unless there was an internal reason why the routing wouldn't work inside the caliper?

Edited for clarity...

[Kalgrm]

You know, that's not dumb at all: that might just work. I can't do the work myself, but I'll stop in at the LBS and talk with the mechanic. They could probably do with a bleed anyway ....

[Deanj]

I did wonder that but I know nothing about disc brakes so kept quiet for the sake of looking stupid (again)

[Kalgrm]

Out of respect for the feelings of Needsapush, I'm withholding my ride review for a few days. I had a good ride, while he had a shocker.

Cheers,
Graeme

[Aushiker]

How did you guess? You must be psychic ....

I should feel sorry for you, but I don't Then I could say I told you so, but I won't

I am glad you got it sorted but.

Andrew

[Deanj]

Out of respect for the feelings of Needsapush, I'm withholding my ride review for a few days. I had a good ride, while he had a shocker.

Cheers,
Graeme

Don't worry mate you go ahead and tell. Was having a ball myself till I crashed. Having the brain fully activated was a strange feeling. Hard to explain but it was like you could feel it activating.

[toolonglegs]

Was in at BA today,Aiden's Cannondlae Hard Tail was there...sweet sweet sweet....10 kilos dripping wet,electronic front lock out lefty.I want to be 75 kilos dripping wet then I might be able to make use of it!.
Just had to share

[Kalgrm]

Okay, I had a ride on some real single track for the first time with the new set up last night. I can't say it made me a faster or better rider, but it did make the ride more enjoyable and I could push harder for longer before feeling fatigued. I also have the feeling I was not utilising the full potential of the bike by being too hesitant to take it to the limits of traction. We're still getting to know each other .....

The ride confirmed my first impressions from the other night: this thing will not bob under full power when the track is smooth enough for that sort of "get out of the saddle and hammer" style of riding. I did not feel like any of my energy was being sapped by the suspension under those conditions, which was reassuring after a few years of HT riding.

Under "sit and spin" conditions, I did feel the first movement of the rear wheel through the bike. As Needsapush noted above, I can feel the bike take the hit and then switch from locked to active suspension, but it was not objectionable: a small tap, rather like running over a crack in a concrete footpath on a road bike. This only occurred when the running had been smooth and a root or rock was encountered. Once that first hit was absorbed, the suspension remained active until the track smoothed out again. (At this stage, the factory setting for the threshold feels good. I don't think I'm going to miss the Brain Fade that the newer bikes have, but only time will tell on that issue.)

My preference for hitting rocks, roots and logs is to bunny-hop them (as you'd expect from a HT rider). It's not only faster, but smoother on the bike and body. I'm happy to say this experience is not hampered by the Epic and is, in fact, heightened.

When I've borrowed FS bikes from friends to see what the fuss was about, I was usually disappointed by how the back wheel sagged as the front came up, making the hop seem laboured and soft. I know that was more my timing than the fault of the bike, and I've never been a good bunny-hopper anyway, but that softness in the rear was always a disappointment to me. However, the Epic doesn't suffer from the trait: because it's locked out until that inertial valve opens, a push down on the pedals to gain some height doesn't result in a sluggish response from the bike, but rather a gratifying lift.

Landing the bunny-hop is very different though! Once the bike has lifted, the valve kicks open and the bike feels like it is landing on a bed of pine needles. I can imagine this technique being a great way to activate the rear end when I can see a pile of rocks in the path: bunny-hop the first lip and land on fully active suspension, sailing through the remaining obstacles smoothly.

Unfortunately, the only decent descent on the Jarradale track is rife with 3" deep pea-gravel. Since I'm a big sook when it comes to falling off, I took it very easy going down that part of the track. That means I cannot comment on the down-hill handling of the bike. In any case, there are not enough exposed rocks on that section to adequately assess how the bike felt on a serious down hill. The other twisty, rocky downhill bits were great though!

The fully active suspension made a big difference to the handling when attacking the rocky downhill bits: much less jarring of the knees as I stood to absorb the jolts and the rear end tracked better through these sections. I suppose the same could be said for the flat rocky bits too - I could stand and power through them without experiencing the rear wheel bouncing and losing traction. In addition, I was able to choose a rougher, but more direct, line through the rocks if I wanted too. Still need to get used to that characteristic, but then again, maybe I shouldn't. It would be less harsh on the bike to ride smarter.

Comparing the ride with the XtC HT fitted with a Thudbuster seat post is interesting. The Thudbuster soaks up the trail chatter better than the Epic (in other words, my butt felt a little more bruised on the Epic). However, when a larger rock was hit, I could comfortably stay seated if I wanted (read "too buggered to stand up" ...).

I did find the lower BB height a distraction. I hit the pedals a few times in places where I would not do so on my XtC. For someone like TLL, who would use 180mm cranks, this might be a deal killer for the bike.

Having said that though, Toolonglegs, you owe it to yourself to demo one of these bikes. It really does feel like the best of both worlds and a great transition from HT to FS XC riding. HT most of the time, FS when the going gets rough - without needing to manually flick a lockout switch. In addition, a FS bike might just be able to handle those jarring hits you inflict on your equipment!

I'll come back and add more at a later date, once the new girl and I have settled in together. I'll compare the first (love struck) impressions with those arising from the "contented couple" phase .... shortly to be followed (no doubt) by the acrimonious "pre-divorce" bitching!

Cheers,
Graeme

[Deanj]

Nice write up Graeme, one thing from my ride on Sat to the one last night was the brain fade fuction did improve my bunny hop. On Sat I had it set a few clicks over halfway towards firm (last night fully firm). Although I didn't notice too much bob when climbing, when I did go to hop an obstacle, the little bit of compression I did get, really helped me spring up. Depends on your technique I suppose to what suits but I'm not one to get much air from a bunny hop usually. Also I can't really remember feeling the brain activating when climbing. Maybe that had to do with the bit of 'give' being enough to soak up the bump. Bit hard to tell though from the brief ride last night, so a lot more experimenting to do with it over the next few rides.

Hadn't noticed the pedal height but an interesting point. Will be getting the tape measure out to see how measurements compare to my hardtail.

[Kalgrm]

I'm certainly no expert on setting up suspension. However, I would have thought receiving a boost from the release of the suspension would indicate a rebound damping setting which was too fast. The manuals all say if you get thrown from the saddle, the damping needs to be slowed. When it's "just right" the rebound should lift the rider back to the sag level without over-shooting. So if it throws you up as you're bunny hopping, it must be too fast ....

Now, as I said, I'm no expert. I have heard others beside yourself say that to bunny hop a FS bike, you need to take off early, compressing the suspension and using it to launch with.

This leads me to one conclusion: I'm confused!

Cheers,
Graeme

[Deanj]

Being my first full susp I'm even less of an expert. Rebound at the moment is set to middle both front and back and it didn't feel like it was kicking up to quick when riding some rough trails but again will have a play around with that. Confused? I totally agree I'm sure not to long ago I used to get on bikes and just ride them!

[toolonglegs]

Good write up indeed...pity my LBS dosent stock them!.How much would you think the bottom bracket is lowered?.I dont have too much trouble with timing on the longer cranks but do have trouble with the 48big ring on the more technical stuff.My hard tail is set up for racing even thou it is a bit heavy...and i dont race it!.But they may change next year!.

[europa]

Can we safely assume that you're happy with the bike Graeme?

Richard

[Kalgrm]

You should never assume anything .... (it's pretty safe bet here though!)

I can't say for certain the BB is in fact lower. It may be that the suspension was "taking a hit" at the same time my pedal was at its low point and meeting a rock. When the suspension is working, the BB must be lower than at a standing position, and I might have simply mistimed it. Of course, at the same spot on the track on the XtC I would not have been sagging to absorb the hit, so no pedal strike.

Cheers,
Graeme

[Deanj]

Just got the tape measure out.

Floor to crank arm 13cms
Floor to bottom bracket 29.5cms

[Kalgrm]

Just got the tape measure out.

Floor to crank arm 13cms
Floor to bottom bracket 29.5cms

So assuming 25% sag in 100m travel front and rear (as recommended) there should be 10.5cm crank to floor and 27cm BB to floor under normal ride conditions.

At full compression front and rear (not likely, but worst case) we are left with 3cm between crank and floor and 19.5cm BB to floor. Hmm, looks like I need to be more careful with my pedal timing than I was before. (But I knew that already following that ride the other night.)

Thanks for the measurements Dean.

Cheers,
Graeme

[Hawkeye]

I have a copy of Fundamentals, a UK DVD on MTB skills. One of the sections deals with bike setup.

The suggestion for setting rebound is quick on the front and slow on the rear. The rationale is that you want the front wheel to stay in contact with the ground over the choppy stuff by dropping into the ruts without "packing down" or staying in the air and causing you to lose the front end.

The rear, on the other hand, needs to be set slow enough so that it doesn't kick back on heavy landings, thumping you in the butt and sending you over the bars and possibly to hospital.

The guys at Bike Addiction set my Jekyll up with 25% rebound on the Lefty front and 3-4 clicks off full rebound on the Fox RL rear and this seems to be pretty good for my occasional forays around Manly Dam.

[Kalgrm]

Thanks for that J.R. I'll give it a try around those recommendations.

Just for the sake of clarification: you are saying rebound is three quarters away from being fully damped on the front and 3-4 clicks away from being fully damped on the rear. Correct?

And how many clicks do you have between fully damped and no damping on the rear? (In other words, what percentage of damping is "3-4 clicks"?) Your clicks and mine might not be the same.

Cheers,
Graeme

(PS - I guess I should go back to the books I've got and re-read them now that my bike has rear sus.)

[Mulger bill]

(PS - I guess I should go back to the books I've got and re-read them now that my bike has rear sus.)

Why spoil the fun of mucking it up?

Now to figure out airsprings...

Shaun

[senator52]

Hi Graeme, I was wondering how do you like the Brooks on the mtb? Ive heard a lot of people say that Brooks saddles are too slippery for a mtb saddle and too wide as well. I was thinking getting one for the mtb but was just wanting a bit of a confirmation that a Brooks would be appropriate for the job. Is that a B17?