Drop Bar Bike Converions

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Aushiker
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Drop Bar Bike Converions

Postby Aushiker » Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:50 am

Hi

I am thinking of converting a road bike (currently riding a recumbent with e-assist) and I note that most conversions that are of road bikes are of flat bar bikes and conversions of drop-bar bikes seem few and far between.

I am curious as to why flat-bar bikes seem to be more popular. I am guessing mounting a throttle comes in to play here. Other reasons?

Thanks
Andrew

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Re: Drop Bar Bike Converions

Postby outnabike » Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:49 am

Hi Andrew,
I had a flat bar as a Kid until I bought a car, so buying back in a couple of years ago I went for the randonneur bars. But mine were just too wide. so went for drops.I am very happy as for hills I like the lower position.
I always felt the flat bars comfortable and was happy with the real estate aspect for the airzound etc. But the strange thing is I find the hand positions better on the drop bars for me. If you have a touch of arthritis it makes a personal difference, and I installed the thick rubber hand grips to make my life easier.
I wish the industry would stick to a common size of tubing though as to go to drops it can come out at around the $300-00 mark or more, depending on the selection of controllers, brakes and maybe the cog changing equipment.
Any way that is what I have done and why. :)
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Re: Drop Bar Bike Conversions

Postby Aushiker » Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:57 pm

Well I made my decision and a purchase today ... picked up a 2009 Giant Defy 1 for AU$475. My commute is 42 km each way and the return (and often the morning leg) is into serious headwinds so I feel that the dropbar will be the better option. I guess I will find out :)

Image

All this leads to my second question ... mounting the battery, which in my case is a Samsung 36V 10S 6P 29E cells 16.5Ah frame pack battery from Paul at EM3EV.

I need access to water on my rides and my preferred option is to access the water bottle on the downtube which would mean mounting the above battery on the seat tube using the water bottle cage braze-ons (I assuming sufficient space at this point in time).

Would this be a good idea or a bad idea, e.g., to much weigh on the braze-ons and hence mounting at less of an angle on the downtube or staying with a rack mount. Thoughts?

Andrew

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Re: Drop Bar Bike Converions

Postby Aushiker » Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:59 pm

outnabike wrote:Hi Andrew,
I had a flat bar as a Kid until I bought a car, so buying back in a couple of years ago I went for the randonneur bars. But mine were just too wide. so went for drops.I am very happy as for hills I like the lower position.
I always felt the flat bars comfortable and was happy with the real estate aspect for the airzound etc. But the strange thing is I find the hand positions better on the drop bars for me. If you have a touch of arthritis it makes a personal difference, and I installed the thick rubber hand grips to make my life easier.
I wish the industry would stick to a common size of tubing though as to go to drops it can come out at around the $300-00 mark or more, depending on the selection of controllers, brakes and maybe the cog changing equipment.
Any way that is what I have done and why. :)
I started out riding on a flat-bar, a Giant CRX-1 but relatively quickly switched to drop-bar bikes and then on to recumbents. I was just curious as to any specific reasons why flat-bar bikes where more popular as e-bikes. Others have suggested it is really the market and that drop-bar bikes are more popular with sporting type riders.

Andrew

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Re: Drop Bar Bike Converions

Postby RonK » Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:22 pm

I would have thought that people who would choose to have pedal assistance would also favour a more upright position for comfort.

But I suppose it could be the other way round - people who choose a more upright position for comfort may be more likely to need pedal assistance. :)
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Re: Drop Bar Bike Converions

Postby bychosis » Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:10 pm

+1. Drop bars are about serious speed, or serious distance ie effort. Ebikes are about pootling down to the local shops without raising a sweat.

As for the cage mount, how heavy is the battery, compared to a bottle full of water. Could you use zip ties around the seat tube, or a bracket over the top tube as additional support for the battery if it is a lot heavier than a bottle of water?
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Re: Drop Bar Bike Converions

Postby Aushiker » Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:35 pm

bychosis wrote:+1. Drop bars are about serious speed, or serious distance ie effort. Ebikes are about pootling down to the local shops without raising a sweat.
42 kilometres into heads winds coming off the ocean (read no protection) ... currently blowing now at around 50 km/h and I am at the weaker end of the journey in terms of wind speed ... all done up to four days a week plus the inbound is generally into a headwind, but a weaker one. Oh I also have pacemaker .... That is all a serious effort me, probably not for you I guess but then this bike for me not you.

As for the cage mount, how heavy is the battery, compared to a bottle full of water. Could you use zip ties around the seat tube, or a bracket over the top tube as additional support for the battery if it is a lot heavier than a bottle of water?
It weighs more than a kilogram that is for sure but mounting it on the down-tube is pretty common; seat post not so much which is why I asked for feedback hopefully from others who have some knowledge in the area.

Cheers
Andrew
Last edited by Aushiker on Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Drop Bar Bike Converions

Postby bychosis » Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:00 pm

Aushiker wrote:
bychosis wrote:+1. Drop bars are about serious speed, or serious distance ie effort. Ebikes are about pootling down to the local shops without raising a sweat.
42 kilometres into heads winds coming off the ocean (read no protection) ... currently blowing now at around 50 km/h and I am at the weaker end of the journey in terms of wind speed ... all done up to four days a week plus the inbound is generally into a headwind, but a weaker one. That is a serious effort me, probably not for you but I guess.
As for the cage mount, how heavy is the battery, compared to a bottle full of water. Could you use zip ties around the seat tube, or a bracket over the top tube as additional support for the battery if it is a lot heavier than a bottle of water?
It weighs more than a kilogram that is for sure but mounting it on the down-tube is pretty common; seat post not so much which is why I asked for feedback hopefully from others who have tried the idea.

Andrew
Sorry, my comment wasn't to dis your effort, more a general observation of how the typical usage occurs and where the marketers focus their efforts. Pretty sure you're putting in a lot more effort than me drop bar or no. Maybe a velomobile is more appropriate. :lol:

I wouldn't worry about mounting up to maybe 1.5kg on a cage mount, I'd just make sure that it's mounted securely additional zip ties etc. (just my gut feeling, not an engineered response).
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Re: Drop Bar Bike Converions

Postby Aushiker » Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:10 pm

bychosis wrote:I wouldn't worry about mounting up to maybe 1.5kg on a cage mount, I'd just make sure that it's mounted securely additional zip ties etc. (just my gut feeling, not an engineered response).
I am pretty sure the battery is closer to 4 kg than 1 kg so you concerns are more likely quite valid. The more I think about this the more I think the rack mount is better which is what I do now with the Bacchetta ... I suspect the battery is probably closer to 4 kg and it worries me that the "braze-on" [?] will pull out.

Just don't like the idea of the rack on the bike that much :)

This is the current setup on the Bacchetta Giro 20 ATT.

Image

and here is one example of the sort of mounting I was thinking about but not upside down like this.

Image

It may become a moot point if I don't have room anyway.

Andrew

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Re: Drop Bar Bike Converions

Postby ldrcycles » Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:34 pm

Slightly off topic, but i'm curious as to why you're going for an upright road bike, i would have thought the recumbent would have a significant advantage in those conditions?
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Re: Drop Bar Bike Converions

Postby Aushiker » Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:17 pm

ldrcycles wrote:Slightly off topic, but i'm curious as to why you're going for an upright road bike, i would have thought the recumbent would have a significant advantage in those conditions?
Just not working for me ... I am simply not getting into enjoying riding it as much as I thought I would. I also am not convinced they are so fantastic into the wind as they are often claimed to be. That said with the electric motor it does make a difference but I loose stability at speeds above 40 km/h [which I can do sans motor] and the low speed stability is also not great which does not help on signficant part of my commute which is a Regional Shared Path.

All up I am just not enjoying it as much as riding my two diamond frame bikes.

Andrew

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Re: Drop Bar Bike Converions

Postby eldavo » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:58 pm

I'd be confident with the intended downtube mounting and would refer to the people who have installed the higher power kit on cheap mountain bikes and using them at speed offroad.
The finite element analysis of road frames I just saw one quote of 620W for 1minute from a pro cyclist is what that one example was modelling from, which is more than sustained peak output of the pedelec for your commute.
On my electric I can effectively keep the similar journey time, and choose my assist heart rate,

The favourite image I found is this, of the bike painted in the FEA chart colours, red max, blue min:
Image
Followed by the reddit comment by yankerage "This bike should be allowed to marry another bike if it wants to." :D

Another way to look at having electric assistance is it puts aerodynamics/wind resistance as a variable in with your input for desired heart rate, the motor assists to maintain the speed/trip time.
Your final variable becomes battery economy.

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Re: Drop Bar Bike Converions

Postby Aushiker » Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:55 pm

I have now transferred over the kit the Giant Defy 1 and the battery is currently mounted on the down-tube. My only niggle is that it is a tight fit for the water bottle cage/water bottle so may visit Quantum Bicycles in the new year to see if I can new water bottle cage mounts put in a bit higher up the down tube.

Andrew

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Re: Drop Bar Bike Converions

Postby silentbutdeadly » Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:32 am

I'd like to see some photos when you get a chance. I assume you have used the BB mounted motor on the Defy? If so I'd be inclined to put the battery on the seat tube if you can...simply for weight balance. Too much weight towards the front end of a road bike could make the handling a bit twitchy which is not what you want in a headwind situation...
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Re: Drop Bar Bike Converions

Postby lobstermash » Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:51 am

Aushiker wrote: Just not working for me ... I am simply not getting into enjoying riding it as much as I thought I would. I also am not convinced they are so fantastic into the wind as they are often claimed to be. That said with the electric motor it does make a difference but I loose stability at speeds above 40 km/h [which I can do sans motor] and the low speed stability is also not great which does not help on signficant part of my commute which is a Regional Shared Path.
One of my mates bought my BikeE off me and converted it to a rear hub ebike, with battery mounted behind the seat like yours. The extra weight on the back end is quite problematic for high speed stability, even on a lwb recumbent, so I can imagine a swb would suffer even more from being tail heavy... Luckily he has the option of packing batteries into the frame itself, which is next on the cards.
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Re: Drop Bar Bike Converions

Postby Aushiker » Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:30 am

silentbutdeadly wrote:I'd like to see some photos when you get a chance. I assume you have used the BB mounted motor on the Defy? If so I'd be inclined to put the battery on the seat tube if you can...simply for weight balance. Too much weight towards the front end of a road bike could make the handling a bit twitchy which is not what you want in a headwind situation...
Yes this is the setup. Will try and get it photographed on weekend if the weather is good and I can get down to the coast early in the morning.

Andrew

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Re: Drop Bar Bike Converions

Postby eldavo » Thu Dec 18, 2014 12:07 pm

With a spare set of hands from family you can find the front rear weight bias with a bathroom scale. Level the bike with scale under one wheel dead, then plus rider, try ypur different riding positions, repeat on other wheel. Gives you front rear splits and how your ergonomics change them, cargo rear loads etc. Best handling with weight in the triangle, rear racks beyond rear axle gets the tail wagging the dog bad feeling.

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