NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

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Nate
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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby Nate » Tue May 03, 2016 12:44 pm

mikesbytes wrote:Back on topic
I'm getting the impression that all the protest has achieved nothing. Only a change in minister is going to give the opportunity to have the rules and penalties made reasonable
There's 2 issues at hand:
- the rules & penalties are not reasonable
- the NSW police have a clear & "force wide" bias against cyclists. They are not investing incidents with cyclists thoroughly, when motorists are committing crimes by providing deliberate misleading statements they fail to act, and they are not choosing to NOT enforce the laws brought in for cyclists safety.

Its the latter that's the bigger concern, change the rules all you want - but it makes no difference when they're not enforced.
Given the issue with Police is clearly institutional & widespread (multiple LACs, multiple officers) - its something that is most likely bordering on professional negligence & a class action.

Reading the mission statement of the NSW police force: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/ ... 75/s6.html
Its hilarious & incredibly clear they are not just failing dismally - but making conscious decisions to NOT follow their mission statement.

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby find_bruce » Tue May 03, 2016 2:00 pm

mikesbytes wrote:Back on topic
I'm getting the impression that all the protest has achieved nothing. Only a change in minister is going to give the opportunity to have the rules and penalties made reasonable
You are right about the penalties Mike, but is that true about the ID? As far as I can tell there has been no legislation or regulation published that sets out the ID requirements. This is not just because it is not being enforced - NSW Road Rule 144-1 and 144-2 are in the road rules.
Nate wrote: There's 2 issues at hand:
- the rules & penalties are not reasonable
- the NSW police have a clear & "force wide" bias against cyclists. They are not investing incidents with cyclists thoroughly, when motorists are committing crimes by providing deliberate misleading statements they fail to act, and they are not choosing to NOT enforce the laws brought in for cyclists safety.

Its the latter that's the bigger concern, change the rules all you want - but it makes no difference when they're not enforced.
Given the issue with Police is clearly institutional & widespread (multiple LACs, multiple officers) - its something that is most likely bordering on professional negligence & a class action.

Reading the mission statement of the NSW police force: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/ ... 75/s6.html
Its hilarious & incredibly clear they are not just failing dismally - but making conscious decisions to NOT follow their mission statement.
Sadly all the evidence points to you being correct Nate

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby bychosis » Tue May 03, 2016 2:58 pm

mikesbytes wrote:Back on topic
I'm getting the impression that all the protest has achieved nothing. Only a change in minister is going to give the opportunity to have the rules and penalties made reasonable
Yesterday afternoon I received a copy of a letter sent to my local MP from the office of that poor excuse for a transport minister. It thanked the MP for taking the time to represent my wishes to the Transport Minister and rebutted each of the points with the propaganda spouted elsewhere. ::sigh::
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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby tubby74 » Wed May 04, 2016 2:56 pm

I just had a meeting with John Sinodi, secretary for transport. Also the member for a large part of my commute route. There was a rep from duncans office there who seems very sure that Duncan is not anti cyclist despite the evidence
He was keen to point out a large budget for publicity for better cycling tolerance from motorists, which is something very much missing from the governments recent efforts. Just put the "don't be a !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !!" video on loop would be a good start. The green way project was also a big one. He took a lot of notes and told Duncan's rep to look into things, we'll see if anything comes of it.
Basically what I wanted to get across is that I'm not a campaigner, just a normal guy who wants to get home to his family, and I feel a lot less safe now than I did last year on the same roads. The vast majority give me space like they already did, the small number of idiots have take to the changes like a bull to a red flag, with a lot of deliberate close shaves and abuse.

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby jasonc » Wed May 04, 2016 3:23 pm

tubby - maybe request a meeting with the police minister to see how they are going to respond to incidents logged by cyclists? I'm not far from doing the same up here.

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby tubby74 » Wed May 04, 2016 3:28 pm

He did ask if I had requested to meet the police minister. I get nothing but form responses saying we're too busy from Troy Grant's office. I raised the experience in Qld of calibrated evidence being ignored, and the statement by the NSW traffic commander that he expected to not book anyone for safe passing distances as being as clear a statement of intent as you can get and thoroughly irresponsible as you can get in that position.

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby trailgumby » Wed May 04, 2016 7:41 pm

tubby74 wrote:He did ask if I had requested to meet the police minister. I get nothing but form responses saying we're too busy from Troy Grant's office. I raised the experience in Qld of calibrated evidence being ignored, and the statement by the NSW traffic commander that he expected to not book anyone for safe passing distances as being as clear a statement of intent as you can get and thoroughly irresponsible as you can get in that position.
What was the traffic commander's exact wording, do you know?

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby AUbicycles » Wed May 04, 2016 7:50 pm

Good work tubby74. The local MPs are more reliable - I havn't had a single response from MP Duncan Gay following four letters sent at intervals since December - each letter was courteous and politely critical of the policies. I request a response each time and would prefer a real response rather than a canned response.

There is a tendency for letters to be forwarded and even when a supportive local MP shows the best intent to represent their constituents - the nature of politics means that the influence of individuals that don't have powerful backers / backing carries very little weight.
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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby Mulger bill » Wed May 04, 2016 9:45 pm

trailgumby wrote:
tubby74 wrote:He did ask if I had requested to meet the police minister. I get nothing but form responses saying we're too busy from Troy Grant's office. I raised the experience in Qld of calibrated evidence being ignored, and the statement by the NSW traffic commander that he expected to not book anyone for safe passing distances as being as clear a statement of intent as you can get and thoroughly irresponsible as you can get in that position.
What was the traffic commander's exact wording, do you know?
IIRC it was pretty much a CC of the standard Jones response about tape measures and stuff.

Maybe check Wombles bicycle page on Faceache? Look back to within a fortnight of the rollout
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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby trailgumby » Wed May 04, 2016 10:38 pm

AUbicycles wrote:Good work tubby74. The local MPs are more reliable - I havn't had a single response from MP Duncan Gay following four letters sent at intervals since December - each letter was courteous and politely critical of the policies. I request a response each time and would prefer a real response rather than a canned response.

There is a tendency for letters to be forwarded and even when a supportive local MP shows the best intent to represent their constituents - the nature of politics means that the influence of individuals that don't have powerful backers / backing carries very little weight.
The only response I've had from Duncan Gay's department was when I went through my local member Brad Hazzard when he was Attorney General.

It was an enquiry regarding bike infrastructure surrounding the new hospital in my area. Initially his staffer wanted me to write directly to Mr Gay but I was fairly sharp in response on the phone (polite of course), indicating he had lost the faith of the cycling community as an honest broker.

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby brumby33 » Wed May 04, 2016 11:38 pm

Whilst there are some general adult cyclists that need to be pulled into line, the law that has been passed last March leaves out a major issue and that is one with young teens who fall under the under 16 bracket, boys and girls who are of the baseball cap and hoodie brigade on BMX's run rampant on foot paths jumping gutters, weaving in/ out of cars waiting at lights without a worry about being chastised about it.
Last night, I just finished my last bus trip in a major built up area and was preparing to run empty back to depot and go home, this was about 7pm and quite dark. I was waiting at a set of lights ready to turn left to get back onto the major HWY, I got the green but red left arrow and preparing for the arrow to go out (there's generally not much time between red arrow out and amber lights to follow) I was getting ready to plant the foot on the go fast pedal and just before I did, a kid shot out from my right from a row of shops on a BMX, straight in front of my bus and then onto the footpath continuing up the street....yeah he was wearing the hoodie....I had rolled a few feet forward at the same time just before I seen this kid and it was only a second before the red arrow dropped and away I went.....now if that arrow would have dropped a second before and I was on the accelerator, it would have been fatal for that kid, he would've ended up under the front and maybe back wheels of my bus....he certainly gave me a fright and yeah I cursed the little B********d but it also maybe me realise how quick something like this can happen.
The cops won't act coz they can't get anything out of the kids but they can out of u and me because we are not classed as minors....maybe the age law needs to be changed.....but I've had many close calls with young teens on their BMX's darting across roads playing chicken with the buses and often at night....they are so blatant but cops see them running around, no lights, no helmet and they do SFA about it....but I've seen them stop an older bloke doing the same thing just down the road.....

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby tubby74 » Thu May 05, 2016 9:47 am

AUbicycles wrote:Good work tubby74. The local MPs are more reliable - I havn't had a single response from MP Duncan Gay following four letters sent at intervals since December - each letter was courteous and politely critical of the policies. I request a response each time and would prefer a real response rather than a canned response.
Sidoti isnt my local member though he is in a neighbouring electorate that i commute through. That helped a lot as i could detail the abuse and issues on roads he knew. The meeting was requested in his role as sectetary for transport.
As you noted emails often get files under to be dealt with rather than taken on board. Face to face meetings get a much better audience though you are often painfully aware that there is a politician behind the smiles.
The rep from duncans office seemed genuinely surprised whe i aksed if the runours of duncans retirement were true and that i was waiting like a kid before christmas for that day. She genuinely thinks duncan is not anti cyclist.
It was a farily rambling discussion, im not a great presenter and it covered a lot of issues.
Ill try to get the letter i got from duncans office scanned later today and post it. It does go i to detail on many of the issues though as expected is full of half truths.

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby AUbicycles » Thu May 05, 2016 1:10 pm

tubby74 wrote:The rep from duncans office seemed genuinely surprised when I aksked if the rumours of duncans retirement were true and that I was waiting like a kid before christmas for that day. She genuinely thinks duncan is not anti cyclist.
Très intéressant!
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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby mikesbytes » Thu May 05, 2016 7:30 pm

I get the impression from the comments about how surprised Dunc's staff were that they haven't been reading the communications sent to them
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby AUbicycles » Wed May 18, 2016 12:56 pm

I finally got a response from Duncan Gay - however it was through a request made via my local MP. The local MP had previously forwarded my concerns and this time I requested that he solicit a response from Duncan Gay as my four letters (since December 2015) had remained unanswered.

Unfortunately - the letter from Duncan Gay (staffers) was canned in that large sections were the same as in other letters I have seen. The letter talks about "dispelling myths" (like his parliamentary speech) and that opponents are "an uninformed fringe group of cyclists"

The letter covers the $57 million investment (2015/16) in cycling and pedestrian infrastructure however does not not that this is a reduction in spending from the $69 million in (2014/15) of which they are not going to provide a breakdown.

The letter claims that the GoTogether campaign will be effective however at this stage I feel that the underfunded campaign is missing the opportunity to increase awareness.

I have written back (again) requesting the actual data which the government has still not shared, highlghting the flaw in the ID requirement and questioning the sincerity of the government in their efforts to improve cycling safety considering the comparative low budget (comparing with their total budget and the apparant importance that laws changes are necessary).

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby bychosis » Wed May 18, 2016 3:46 pm

Sounds like I got the same letter, via my local MP a little while ago. It was addressed to the MP after he took my concerns to the minister,
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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby Thoglette » Wed May 18, 2016 4:35 pm

ByChosis et al. The next step is to tell your local members that these are form letters ("I know others who've got the same letter") which don't answer the questions asked. Press them to get real answers.

The minister is only the minister as long as cabinet (and the back benches) are happy with that situation. I don't pretend to understand NSW LNP factions but I'm sure there'll be someone gunning for that job.

For those in NSW who haven't written to their members, now would be the right time.
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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby AUbicycles » Thu May 19, 2016 8:28 am

Thoglette, good point. I enclosed a copy of my response to the transport minister to my MP and noted that much of the content in MP Gays letter was canned and that the 'facts' and 'data' requested were not provided.
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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby mikesbytes » Tue May 24, 2016 3:16 pm

With all the videos that have been submitted, why has there been only 4 convictions for breaking the 1mtr rule?

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/number-of-cyc ... oxld9.html
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby jasonc » Tue May 24, 2016 3:24 pm

mikesbytes wrote:With all the videos that have been submitted, why has there been only 4 convictions for breaking the 1mtr rule?

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/number-of-cyc ... oxld9.html
they don't accept video evidence i believe

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby Boognoss » Tue May 24, 2016 3:30 pm

jasonc wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:With all the videos that have been submitted, why has there been only 4 convictions for breaking the 1mtr rule?

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/number-of-cyc ... oxld9.html
they don't accept video evidence i believe
Phew, if that's the case so many police resources can be freed up to spend time cracking down on bicycle helmet use then..... Oh wait...... :roll: :evil: :evil:
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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby jasonc » Tue May 24, 2016 3:46 pm

Boognoss wrote:
jasonc wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:With all the videos that have been submitted, why has there been only 4 convictions for breaking the 1mtr rule?

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/number-of-cyc ... oxld9.html
they don't accept video evidence i believe
Phew, if that's the case so many police resources can be freed up to spend time cracking down on bicycle helmet use then..... Oh wait...... :roll: :evil: :evil:
sssshhhhh

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby ball bearing » Tue May 24, 2016 7:31 pm

I don't expect we will see the repeal of these new penalties anytime soon....

"...The number of fines handed out by police has jumped more than 50% since the Baird government upped the penalties, compared to a year ago. in March and April 1098 riders were fined for not wearing helmets, up from 710 in 2015. That’s delivered a $350,262 windfall to the government, compared with $50,000 in revenue a year ago...."

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/there ... 450-2016-5

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby g-boaf » Tue May 24, 2016 8:49 pm

jasonc wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:With all the videos that have been submitted, why has there been only 4 convictions for breaking the 1mtr rule?

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/number-of-cyc ... oxld9.html
they don't accept video evidence i believe
That's how you get accurate statistics. You can't report on something if it doesn't exist!

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby AUbicycles » Tue May 24, 2016 9:34 pm

jasonc wrote:they don't accept video evidence i believe
A few years back I confirmed with an area commander that submitted videos can in fact be submitted - contrary to what the duty officer told me when I reported a near deadly collision (driver fault).

For the 1 meter safe passing distance, technically if it went to court - I understand that the video evidence is submissible, but it has to get that far so request a lot of energy, time and conviction from someone wanting to press for a conviction.
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