Would cyclist's give up riding on Beach Rd for seperated infrastructure?

[silentC]

Ignore the ravings of shock-jocks and bogans

As we are all about to discover, not only can they not be ignored but they will be dictating policy to a greater degree than ever with this new senate.

[g-boaf]

The road rules are pretty clear on the use of shared paths and bike lanes. Shared-path use is always an option; never mandated.

The rules are one thing, and it's fine for us veterans of riding, but what about the newcomer who faces intimidation for not using an unsafe shoulder on the road, or a road instead of the path. They might not know the rules as well as we do.

And with the new senate, the Shock Jock will be creating and or dictating policy. He isn't just on the radio now, he's actually in a position of power.

[silentC]

Yes we are entering the era of the right wing bigot. Again. Sorry, no politics!

[il padrone]

And with the new senate, the Shock Jock will be creating and or dictating policy. He isn't just on the radio now, he's actually in a position of power.

The 'mouth-of-the-roach' has no power at all to change States' road rules

He'll do six years sitting on his arse, then he'll retire on his fat Parliamentary pension

[silentC]

The human headline is the least of your worries

[fat and old]

It's all very well talking about Dutch cyclists over there, but here, the powers that be and the shock-jocks and everyone else demand that riders use even the most narrow and unsafe shoulders if they have a bicycle sign painted on them. That's the difference. Heck, even riding on a city street, one rider was harassed by Police for "unsafe" riding because she dared to ride on a busy city street.

Ignore the ravings of shock-jocks and bogans. Yes, always!

The road rules are pretty clear on the use of shared paths and bike lanes. Shared-path use is always an option; never mandated.

Yeah, tell that to the great unwashed mass who still put their teeth under the pillowcase at night. They don't even realise this is the law ffs. Gimmee good, parallel infrastructure in 80-90% of scenarios and I'll give up riding on the motor vehicle sections.

[fat and old]

I do think that my original point has been lost tho....if we had good, Netherlands type infrastructure; not what we get usually in Australia; would cyclists be prepared to give up riding on certain roads?

Oh, I don't think so - the point has been addressed by many posters but perhaps you just don't care for their responses. The answer is still NO.

Don't actually care all that much what the replies are Ron. It's just a question/discussion that gives insights. Every time somebody says that we don't have the same infrastructure however means that the point of the original question is lost. I oughta know, I asked.

[fat and old]

The human headline is the least of your worries

Damn straight! I have my eye on that watermelon up the back personally.

[trainspotter]

Bike lanes (if they are legally signed as such) must be used. However this is always "where practicable". If I am making a right turn, if the bike lane is obstructed by parked cars, too narrow, or full of rubbish, it is not practicable. Legally you are not required to use it.

Qld they amended the rules so that it is no longer mandatory to use cycle lanes where they exist. the exact wording is:

You can choose whether or not to ride in a bicycle lane where one is provided.

There's a few other rules here which make it easier for cycling. We can legally ride in bus lanes (unless specifically prohibited), helmet cams are permitted or at least not specifically prohibited, we can ride across pedestrian and zebra crossings, and on multi lane roads we can take up any position within the lane and do not have to stick to the left. Other states seem to be lagging a bit in these regards, you may want to ask your local advocacy organisation about this.

And before anyone argues that these then absolve the state from providing cycle lanes, TMR requires all new state funded road and transport infrastructure along principal cycle routes to explicitly provide for cyclists in transport infrastructure projects, and on other routes to design the roads to make it easier and safer for cyclists to use.

[g-boaf]

Other states seem to be lagging a bit in these regards, you may want to ask your local advocacy organisation about this.

This is very funny. I'd prefer that the "local" advocacy organisation that supposedly represents us didn't exist at all.

[il padrone]

Qld they amended the rules so that it is no longer mandatory to use cycle lanes where they exist. the exact wording is:

You can choose whether or not to ride in a bicycle lane where one is provided.

There's a few other rules here which make it easier for cycling. We can legally ride in bus lanes (unless specifically prohibited), helmet cams are permitted or at least not specifically prohibited, we can ride across pedestrian and zebra crossings, and on multi lane roads we can take up any position within the lane and do not have to stick to the left. Other states seem to be lagging a bit in these regards, you may want to ask your local advocacy organisation about this.

Virtually all of what you mention is also the case in Victoria as well.

- using bike lanes is "where practicable". There are a host of things that would make it impracticable (as I listed above) but the key thing is the judgement and choice will always be up to the cyclist.
- bus lanes are mostly "bus-only (bicycles excepted)"..... but yes, there may be some that exclude bikes and get enforced. I have not encountered this yet.
- riding across pedestrian/zebra crossings is still a sticking point; but almost never enforced.
- multi-lane roads: the road rules clearly state that the keep to the left rule does not apply. Choose your lane/line as you see fit.

And before anyone argues that these then absolve the state from providing cycle lanes, TMR requires all new state funded road and transport infrastructure along principal cycle routes to explicitly provide for cyclists in transport infrastructure projects, and on other routes to design the roads to make it easier and safer for cyclists to use.

Yes, same deal here in Vic as well, for all major freeway/tollway projects; not related solely to principal cycle routes. Mostly this results in separated shared-paths alongside freeway projects, which as said above, are not mandated for use.

[human909]

- bus lanes are mostly "bus-only (bicycles excepted)"..... but yes, there may be some that exclude bikes and get enforced. I have not encountered this yet.

I haven't heard of police enforced... But when you have a bus driver horn blast you, deliberately close passes you AND following a discussion about said events deliberately turn his wheels to swerve to drive me into the curb... Somebody was trying to send a message about bus-only lanes....

Victoria Parade.

[il padrone]

I have not ridden the length of Victoria Parade for several years now (don't generally go in to that part of the inner suburbs very much). The routes north and south of it (Gertrude; Albert) are just so much better suited for cycling. Victoria Parade always had the most 'orrible concrete-plinth pavement that shook the crap out of your bike and rider

[human909]

I have not ridden the length of Victoria Parade for several years now (don't generally go in to that part of the inner suburbs very much). The routes north and south of it (Gertrude; Albert) are just so much better suited for cycling. Victoria Parade always had the most 'orrible concrete-plinth pavement that shook the crap out of your bike and rider

Quite true. I was only riding a block along until Wellington....

Vicroads revamped Victoria Parade and proclaimed it was a win for cyclists. All while making it illegal for cyclists to take the left lane in quite a few sections.

[trainspotter]

Other states seem to be lagging a bit in these regards, you may want to ask your local advocacy organisation about this.

This is very funny. I'd prefer that the "local" advocacy organisation that supposedly represents us didn't exist at all.

I've heard about them. They're trying to muscle in here as well, but fortunately BQ is pretty well established and they've made no impression.
We've a few BUG's which have managed to persuade BCC to upgrade council owned facilities as well. The network is slowly coming together.

[il padrone]

Typical Copenhagen street. Notice what's missing ???

[warthog1]

Fat people munching on McDonalds and dropping the wrappers everywhere

[warthog1]

Bogans in fully sick commodores with a ground clearance of 2cm and stereos of 200dB?

[il padrone]

Nobody parking cars in the raised bike lanes

Note: the story of our 'Copenhagen-lanes' is all a bit of a furphy really. Most Copenhagen streets do not have any parking at all, certainly not the main roads and even secondary streets. Their parking on-street is minimal and confined mainly to minor streets, where there are bike lanes on the kerb-side of the parked cars.

[warthog1]

Grafitti on the walls and bogan confetti smashed all over the sidewalk?

[warthog1]

Nobody parking cars in the raised bike lanes

Oh.

There's no bumper to bumper traffic with single occupant vehicles whose drivers are all angry and impatient either.

Sorry nobody likes a smart-arse I know but that street looks positively idyllic for many reasons compared to some in the "worlds most livable" city.

[il padrone]

No. Because something like 40%+ of journeys are by bicycle. That is 40% reduced motor vehicles, aka much fewer vehicles on the roads, and the bicycles that replace many of those motor vehicles take up far less space

----> less road congestion.

[warthog1]

True but try prysing our lard-arsed drivers from their precious motorized conveniences.

[warthog1]

No meth heads picking their scabs and shouting hysterically at passers by.
No drunks brawling over an imagined slight.
The list goes on....

[il padrone]

True but try prysing our lard-arsed drivers from their precious motorized conveniences.

Heavy parking fines, stringently enforced.

Talking to friends I met on tour, who lived in Copenhagen for 3 years..... people do not use cars because of the high costs to run them, and in particular the costs of parking. Hip-pocket nerve begins to twitch.