Workaround for WA Police Inaction. How to get complaints recognized.

[cj7hawk]

OK, just spent some time with the local police - some very good preliminary results, and a quirk of how things are processed that benefits cyclists in making complaints. It seems that if complaints are made in a particular way, the police can't ignore or dismiss them so easily.

Here's the process.

1. Don't call the police. Don't report it directly. Go to this form: https://www.police.wa.gov.au/Police-Dir ... uestions-A

2. The correct answers are No, No, No, No, Yes. Notice that the last one doesn't actually limit itself to just HOON behavior? It limits itself to ALL unlawful road behavior.

Now Hoon complaints are serious business. At the very least, even without corroborating evidence, someone is going to get mailed a warning by the WAPOL. Got video? Cars are gonna get crushed... But this form allows other traffic offences also. Phone and safety violations can also be reported.

Now, this is where it gets interesting. WAPOL doesn't know how to handle non-Hoon complaints, so they kicked them out of the normal process and send them to prosecuting police who handle court cases and more serious stuff. So far I've only been called about a few phone related incidents, with video, but I also included my latest "near miss" by a car that passed within a few centimeters of my handle bars. That one they took VERY seriously when I went in to make my statements. So much so that they declined the "quick" version of the process, and asked me to come back for a specific appointment to make a formal statement so charges can be laid.

What? Charges? WA Police doing their job? Passing a cyclist within a few centimeters is dangerous driving?

Yep, it's hard to believe isn't it - These police don't usually get these sort of complaints, and they take a very dim view of motorists putting cyclists lives at risk - far more than the average road traffic guys do.

So each time you have a close call, or perhaps regarding a recent close call, please log it with this online reporting tool, and let me know how it goes. Add in a few mobile phone users you've caught out too.

Given I generated 7 complaints last month, each worth about $400 to the state government, that's $3200 of revenue I've made the state government too ! I think the revenue from online reporting of violations is closely watched, so there's probably a lot of political pressure not to let these ones get away.

Who knows? If this works well enough, we might even see safety improve too!

David.

[Thoglette]

Thanks for the lead. I hope I don't need to use it but it's good to know there's Plan C (as letter to Liz gets a form letter response from a staffer)

[Cycleops70]

but I also included my latest "near miss" by a car that passed within a few centimeters of my handle bars. That one they took VERY seriously when I went in to make my statements. So much so that they declined the "quick" version of the process, and asked me to come back for a specific appointment to make a formal statement so charges can be laid.

What? Charges? WA Police doing their job? Passing a cyclist within a few centimeters is dangerous driving?

David.

Dangerous driving?!

What?

Which station dealt with this?
From my own experience (and I've used the same reporting process), I've been told they won't do a thing until they hit you.

My last report (below) was dismissed by the officer at Wanneroo (Paton) because they didn't make contact. & refused to acknowledge if he thought it was dangerous or not. And eventually claimed I contributed to the incident myself as I "should have been further over to the left". And "what do you expect him to do, wait behind you?"

I wrote to the commissioner & it was reviewed.
I asked them to ignore the passing legislation (as this is "safe enough to avoid a collision") but instead consider dangerous or reckless driving.
They did not consider it either.

I'm amazed (and very happy for you) that they've picked that up.

I've been asked to come in to make a statement before, but then just get messed about. First at Warwick, & then Joodnalup where I ended up waiting over 2 hours before I gave up.

I hope something has changed.

Please let us know if this is successful. As it will be useful to show a precedent has been set, and should add weight to similar complaints.

https://youtu.be/y3Oqg4yTkVY

[cj7hawk]

but I also included my latest "near miss" by a car that passed within a few centimeters of my handle bars. That one they took VERY seriously when I went in to make my statements. So much so that they declined the "quick" version of the process, and asked me to come back for a specific appointment to make a formal statement so charges can be laid.

What? Charges? WA Police doing their job? Passing a cyclist within a few centimeters is dangerous driving?

David.

Dangerous driving?!

What?

Which station dealt with this?
From my own experience (and I've used the same reporting process), I've been told they won't do a thing until they hit you.

Perth station. The new one in Northbridge, near the freeway bridges.

Yes, they often won't react even if you are hit, but although traffic police have some problems with that, other police understand the dangers. Police don't necessarily agree on all matters across the entire force -

Regards
David

[Thoglette]

Hearsay from one of the people who talk to Liz Harvey was that she had wanted to use the existing dangerous/reckless driving regulations to deal with close passing, rather than introducing new provisions

e.g.

18. Reckless driving generally
The provisions of this Part do not justify a driver driving at a speed that —
(a) may constitute driving carelessly, recklessly or at a speed, or in a manner, that is dangerous to the public, having regard to all the circumstances; or

There's also a general "safe distance" requirement which is utterly up to interpretation as to what that is. A directive from the top would help deal with the variance observed in the interpretation of the constabulary.

122. Overtaking
(1) When overtaking a moving vehicle, a driver of a vehicle (other than a bicycle) shall, except as provided in subregulations (2) and (3), pass to the right of that vehicle, at a safe distance.

This is separate to R 124 which talks about passing at a safe distance (being not to cause a collision nor obstruct that vehicle - if you feel you need to "adjust your line" to avoid a collision then this has been breached)

[Cycleops70]

Police don't necessarily agree on all matters across the entire force -

Regards
David

Ain't that the truth. It's been very inconsistent across the stations I've dealt with.

[eldavo]

but I also included my latest "near miss" by a car that passed within a few centimeters of my handle bars. That one they took VERY seriously when I went in to make my statements. So much so that they declined the "quick" version of the process, and asked me to come back for a specific appointment to make a formal statement so charges can be laid.

What? Charges? WA Police doing their job? Passing a cyclist within a few centimeters is dangerous driving?

David.

Dangerous driving?!

What?

Which station dealt with this?
From my own experience (and I've used the same reporting process), I've been told they won't do a thing until they hit you.

My last report (below) was dismissed by the officer at Wanneroo (Paton) because they didn't make contact. & refused to acknowledge if he thought it was dangerous or not. And eventually claimed I contributed to the incident myself as I "should have been further over to the left". And "what do you expect him to do, wait behind you?"

I wrote to the commissioner & it was reviewed.
I asked them to ignore the passing legislation (as this is "safe enough to avoid a collision") but instead consider dangerous or reckless driving.
They did not consider it either.

I'm amazed (and very happy for you) that they've picked that up.

I've been asked to come in to make a statement before, but then just get messed about. First at Warwick, & then Joodnalup where I ended up waiting over 2 hours before I gave up.

I hope something has changed.

Please let us know if this is successful. As it will be useful to show a precedent has been set, and should add weight to similar complaints.

https://youtu.be/y3Oqg4yTkVY

CycleOps70: I'd try David's process posted now all over again with that video you put there.

While riding motorcycles the spiel from Police would typically be not wanting to scrape you off the road, said by fellow riders who were motorcycle traffic Police. How that preventative logic can't translate from their policing of speeding motorcycles, to this video example of 4WD ute at highway speed shaving a cyclist seems like cultural prejudice against the cyclist. I know we have a redneck epidemic, but that's no excuse nor a class of vehicle license or allowed medical condition.

That was my best effort to not trip the swear filter after seeing your video again.

Feels like we're living in the final scene of Easy Rider.

[Cycleops70]

Thanks eldavo,

I'm pretty sure there's a time limit for these reposts, & this incident would be too old.
I doubt they'd entertain it anyway after it had been assessed twice.

I'm totally with you on the preventative action, and I pushed that heavily when talking to police.
My view being that drivers like this will continue to behave this way until their driving is addressed by police, or they hit someone.

If the first option is not likely to happen, then the second is almost inevitable.

Seems counter intuitive for the police not to take action, when it costs more in time & money when sweeping up the mess from a collision.

But I'm a cyclist, & to some (including some police) that doesn't quite qualify you as human.

[cj7hawk]

Update: Driver was called into the Northbridge police station, and showed the video, was very sorry that they caused a fright ( I don't think any malice was involved ) and was issued an infringement for overtaking unsafely.

[Cycleops70]

Update: Driver ........ was issued an infringement for overtaking unsafely.

So they were fined under "Keeping safe distance when overtaking Reg 124" even though they did not collide with you?

Would you be willing to provide the incident reference? I'm sure it would be useful to anyone else submitting a similar incident to police (when getting the "we can't do anything about it" response).

[cj7hawk]

Update: Driver ........ was issued an infringement for overtaking unsafely.

So they were fined under "Keeping safe distance when overtaking Reg 124" even though they did not collide with you?

Would you be willing to provide the incident reference? I'm sure it would be useful to anyone else submitting a similar incident to police (when getting the "we can't do anything about it" response).

That's a good question. I never actually received the report number for that - after I delivered my statement to police, which had 7 different offences and license plate numbers on it including that one, it was dealt with on the same day - very quick turnaround.

Initially they were going to go with dangerous driving, but since they couldn't work out exactly how close it was, they decided to go with the passing offence.

For reference, it's not 124 overtaking it's 122 overtaking ( different offence ) -

122. Overtaking
(1) When overtaking a moving vehicle, a driver of a vehicle (other than a bicycle) shall, except as provided in subregulations (2)
and (3), pass to the right of that vehicle, at a safe distance.
Points: 2 Modified penalty: 2 PU

The Office of Road Safety has issued public notice that the minimum "safe" distance is 1 meter.

The good thing here is it's not based on avoiding a collision as per regulation 124, it's based on what is "safe" - It's not a huge penalty, but it's 2 points still. I think it's probably about right for the offence.

Regards
David

[Cycleops70]

Did the police use the Office of Road safety guidance themselves, or did you need to nudge them in that direction?

I have not bothered reporting any drivers for a long time for close passing (with the exception of the example given above). Just because the police seemed to rest on the 'to avoid a collision' aspect.

If now there is an example of successful infringement being issued for rule 122 using the Office of Road Safety as a guide, then I'd be tempted to restart my reporting. But I think I'd need to reference your experience to counter the 'we can't do anything' response.

Did you get a TCF reference from your online form?

The OfRS claim this is a 4 demerit infringement on their website. Not that that matters, I'd just like this sort of driving to be taken seriously.

Sorry for all the questions, but you have given me new hope that the police (or some) actually give a stuff. Or even better, that there is a change of culture.

[cj7hawk]

Did the police use the Office of Road safety guidance themselves, or did you need to nudge them in that direction?

I have not bothered reporting any drivers for a long time for close passing (with the exception of the example given above). Just because the police seemed to rest on the 'to avoid a collision' aspect.

If now there is an example of successful infringement being issued for rule 122 using the Office of Road Safety as a guide, then I'd be tempted to restart my reporting. But I think I'd need to reference your experience to counter the 'we can't do anything' response.

Did you get a TCF reference from your online form?

The OfRS claim this is a 4 demerit infringement on their website. Not that that matters, I'd just like this sort of driving to be taken seriously.

Sorry for all the questions, but you have given me new hope that the police (or some) actually give a stuff. Or even better, that there is a change of culture.

TCF-15112016-000017
PD15345 took the statement and resolved the complaint.

What else can I say except "Excellent work on behalf of the WA police" and that it was refreshing for someone else to recognize the danger.

With more accurate measurements ( or, had I provided more accurate measurements ) it may have progressed to Dangerous Driving. But I'm happy with the results.

They asked the driver himself to come in and showed him the video and I think he was surprised at how close it was too. He was apparently very apologetic and asked that the apology be passed on to me.

David.