Cars give way to pedestrians - do I need to stop in the bike lane too?

adktz
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Cars give way to pedestrians - do I need to stop in the bike lane too?

Postby adktz » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:21 pm

So I've had this situation come up a few times and I'm not sure what side of the law I'm on.

Situation:
I'm riding in the bike lane between a single lane of traffic on my right, and either parked cars or the curb on my left. The traffic isn't moving so I'm riding cautiously. Pedestrians will cross the road from either side, not at a zebra crossing or intersection, due to cars giving them extra space or there simply being gaps due to the static traffic. They rarely look at the bike lane so I'm either having extremely close calls or ringing my bell feeling rude interrupting their oblivious shuffle across the road.

Am I legally supposed to give way to pedestrians crossing the road in this situation, even if they're dumb enough not to even look at the road? Often when they cross from the opposite side of the street I don't really see them until they're standing in the middle of the bike lane due to the shape of many vehicles.

VicRoads has this on their site:
Pedestrians are not allowed to:
- cause a traffic hazard by moving into the path of a driver
- walk along, or fail to give way when crossing, a path which is for bicycles and wheeled devices (a path showing a 'Bicycle lane' sign).

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find_bruce
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Re: Cars give way to pedestrians - do I need to stop in the bike lane too?

Postby find_bruce » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:45 pm

If it is a pedestrian crossing (eg white stripes across the bike lane) you have to give way to pedestrians
Road Safety Road Rules 2009 (Vic) wrote:Reg 81 Giving way at a pedestrian crossing
(1) A driver approaching a pedestrian crossing must drive at a speed at which the driver can, if necessary, stop safely before the crossing.
(2) A driver must give way to any pedestrian on a pedestrian crossing.
Road rule 19 provides that a reference to a "driver" includes a reference to a rider, which road rule 16 defines as including person who is riding a bicycle.

Oh & if vehicles are stopped to give way to pedestrians, you are not permitted to pass them, even in a separate bike lane - road rule 82.

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Re: Cars give way to pedestrians - do I need to stop in the bike lane too?

Postby adktz » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:59 pm

Sorry if I wasn't clear - this is not at a pedestrian crossing.

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Re: Cars give way to pedestrians - do I need to stop in the bike lane too?

Postby human909 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:15 pm

Pedestrians are required to give way to you. That is the law.

But naturally if the pedestrian is breaking the law then you deal with that situation as it arises. If necessary slow or stop to avoid a collision.

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Re: Cars give way to pedestrians - do I need to stop in the bike lane too?

Postby yugyug » Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:46 pm

Just because a pedestrian might be 'dumb' enough to not check for bikes doesn't negate your responsibility to avoid a collision. Please be gracious with pedestrians: as active transport and vulnerable road users they are on our side politically, though motoring interests attempt to divide us.

I can see nothing rude about ringing your bell. Ring away. I can recall riding through areas so thick with oblivious pedestrians that I rang my bell constantly.

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Re: Cars give way to pedestrians - do I need to stop in the bike lane too?

Postby adktz » Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:12 am

Thanks for the clarity.

I'm sorry I have had six extremely close calls commuting in the past two days of pedestrians who don't look for approaching traffic when crossing the road (even when there's no static car traffic), and I'm becoming very anxious and helpless that it's only a matter of when, not if, I will hit someone.

My rear hub is very quiet which doesn't help.

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Re: Cars give way to pedestrians - do I need to stop in the bike lane too?

Postby g-boaf » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:33 am

yugyug wrote:Just because a pedestrian might be 'dumb' enough to not check for bikes doesn't negate your responsibility to avoid a collision. Please be gracious with pedestrians: as active transport and vulnerable road users they are on our side politically, though motoring interests attempt to divide us.

I can see nothing rude about ringing your bell. Ring away. I can recall riding through areas so thick with oblivious pedestrians that I rang my bell constantly.
My being gracious with pedestrians has limitations, when they rush out against red lights or they cross the road without watching - you bet I'm going to get annoyed with them. I'll avoid them yes, but I'll also let them know that I'm there. I'm within my right to do so.

Police also run operations against pedestrians to catch them crossing against red lights, or crossing roads where they are not allowed to do so. For many of them, their coffee or their text-message is more important that watching for cars and bicycles.

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Re: Cars give way to pedestrians - do I need to stop in the bike lane too?

Postby RobertL » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:32 am

Sometimes I call out "Heads up!" to pedestrians in a situation like this. It's a relatively non-inflammatory way of getting their attention, while still making them realise that they are in the wrong. (Because I've seen them, but they haven't seen me.)

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Re: Cars give way to pedestrians - do I need to stop in the bike lane too?

Postby RonK » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:32 am

Ultimately, it doesn't much matter what the pedestrian does - the onus is on you to avoid colliding with them.
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Re: Cars give way to pedestrians - do I need to stop in the bike lane too?

Postby outnabike » Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:43 am

RonK wrote:Ultimately, it doesn't much matter what the pedestrian does - the onus is on you to avoid colliding with them.

Yep that is how I read it as well. They aren't always right but they are always right...
Some peds are walking cyclists... :)
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Re: Cars give way to pedestrians - do I need to stop in the bike lane too?

Postby Marx » Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:30 pm

As a bike commuter I find that I see everything. I see things may normal people usually miss, and I even see things even before they happen.
So with my special powers I choose to use them for the greater good so I do my best to stop/avoid pedestrians and anything else that might come across my path. It may not be the 'legal' or correct thing I should be doing, but sometimes the greater good requires me to bend some rules and break others. The important thing is everyone is safe because of me.
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Re: Cars give way to pedestrians - do I need to stop in the bike lane too?

Postby P!N20 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:43 pm

RonK wrote:Ultimately, it doesn't much matter what the pedestrian does - the onus is on you to avoid colliding with them.
Well said.

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Re: Cars give way to pedestrians - do I need to stop in the bike lane too?

Postby fat and old » Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:18 pm

I look at that situation with reference to the hierarchy pyramid that someone once posted....trucks at the bottom, peds at the top. If I think it's fair and reasonable to expect heavier road users to be responsible for avoiding cyclists....irrespective of their actions on the road....then it works that way going up. I have to show the same respect to the peds at all times, and give way :)

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Re: Cars give way to pedestrians - do I need to stop in the bike lane too?

Postby Mulger bill » Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:58 pm

Road Rule No1: Don't hit anything.

But, there are times when the oblivious need to be alerted to the fact their unwitting suicide attempt may also injure you.
For those times, there's THIS

Saved peds and I many times :mrgreen:
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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adktz
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Re: Cars give way to pedestrians - do I need to stop in the bike lane too?

Postby adktz » Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:16 pm

RobertL wrote:Sometimes I call out "Heads up!" to pedestrians in a situation like this.
Thanks I will use this as often a bell seems to be taken as an insult.

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Re: Cars give way to pedestrians - do I need to stop in the bike lane too?

Postby eldavo » Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:42 pm

I like the "arooooga" horn a mechanic neighbour found and installed on his FJ.

Situations like this try have fun while you're white-knuckle coasting.

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Re: Cars give way to pedestrians - do I need to stop in the bike lane too?

Postby cp123 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:10 am

I've got a bloody loud "OI!" when I let it go - but its no good if they're plugged in to their phone and oblivious. happens here all the time too.

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Re: Cars give way to pedestrians - do I need to stop in the bike lane too?

Postby eldavo » Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:14 am

What about wear a "I know what you did last summer" costume and say BOO when you crawl along behind them and they look back :D

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Re: Cars give way to pedestrians - do I need to stop in the bike lane too?

Postby Nate » Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:50 pm

IMHO the pedestrians are definitely in the wrong.
Have a read if you've got a few spare hours: http://m.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtop ... 12&t=14855

One ran out infront of me & i took them to court & settled out of court in my favour. They were a lawyer too.
I read through a HEAP of case law in prep. (most were vehicle collisions)

You've noted that peds are always walking in front - so you're aware that it happens & need to take precautions.
if you go hammering down there at 40km/h - knowing that they do it, then you're stuffed.

If you're taking all the precautions necessary that a person would, and a ped jumps out in front & you cannot avoid a collision - then you've got a solid case.

Ensure you have a camera. make the report, their their statement & THEN hand over your footage.
If they lie to teh police - thats a max of 2.5years in prison... wish i new that sooner ;)

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Re: Cars give way to pedestrians - do I need to stop in the bike lane too?

Postby antigee » Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:55 pm

"...Please be gracious with pedestrians: as active transport and vulnerable road users they are on our side politically, though motoring interests attempt to divide us... "

I'll feel free to apply very limited grace to those that I classify as "accidental pedestrians" ....usually they've got out of their car a few metres in front of you carrying one or both of the badges of a driver in a hurry - a set of keys and a child or two in tow...it's a great way to teach kids to cross the road in traffic and of course a cycle lane is a safe, for them, way to access a crossing point closer to the target shop on the opposite side of the road

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Re: Cars give way to pedestrians - do I need to stop in the bike lane too?

Postby Mulger bill » Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:38 pm

antigee wrote:"...a cycle lane is a safe, for them, way to access a crossing point closer to the target shop on the opposite side of the road
You mean they didn't chuck an unsignalled illegal U turn to park on the bike lane right outside? :shock:
Where is this nirvana?
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: Cars give way to pedestrians - do I need to stop in the bike lane too?

Postby RonK » Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:05 pm

Mulger bill wrote:
antigee wrote:"...a cycle lane is a safe, for them, way to access a crossing point closer to the target shop on the opposite side of the road
You mean they didn't chuck an unsignalled illegal U turn to park on the bike lane right outside? :shock:
Where is this nirvana?
They should pay rego...
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Re: Cars give way to pedestrians - do I need to stop in the bike lane too?

Postby antigee » Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:46 pm

"You mean they didn't chuck an unsignalled illegal U turn to park on the bike lane right outside?"

pretty sure that is normal operating procedure if a space (or half a space) is available after that having cruised round the block a couple of times then any close space will do

- though I do find it faintly amusing that in shopping strips drivers mostly readily tolerate other drivers slowing/stopping/speeding up/slowing/u turning without warning... all this very often at speeds much lower than road hogging cyclists normally travel at and in much more erratic fashion ...must be a sympathy thing

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Re: Cars give way to pedestrians - do I need to stop in the bike lane too?

Postby SheikYerbouti » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:20 am

In NSW....

"Drivers must give way to pedestrians crossing the road into which their vehicles are turning. You must also give way to pedestrians if there is a danger of colliding with them, even if there is no marked pedestrian crossing. "

http://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/ ... eedtoknow/

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