Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

[tubby74]

And in NSW, admittedly not for all water activities though. Kayaking, small boats, children, ocean bar crossing. (I will admit I'm not fully up with it though so won't be 100% correct)

I was at bare island in la perouse on the weekend and there was a sign there saying life jackets were now mandatory for rock fishing from this year. almost everyone on the rocks was just sightseeing, and the few who were fishing were on the inland side of the island away from any swell going into the bay.

[Bunged Knee]

And in NSW, admittedly not for all water activities though. Kayaking, small boats, children, ocean bar crossing. (I will admit I'm not fully up with it though so won't be 100% correct)

I was at bare island in la perouse on the weekend and there was a sign there saying life jackets were now mandatory for rock fishing from this year. almost everyone on the rocks was just sightseeing, and the few who were fishing were on the inland side of the island away from any swell going into the bay.

New law of one year trial of mandatory rock fishing life jacket started on 1st Dec`16 until 30th Nov`17 in Randwick LGA only.
And fines will not be issued for the 1st year but will be issued a warning. After 1st Dec`17, it will issue $100 fine for not wearing lifejacket.

It`s a discrimination to head wearers of bikes for $319 fine in NSW than rockfishers when it comes into effect after 1st Dec`17.

[yugyug]

And in NSW, admittedly not for all water activities though. Kayaking, small boats, children, ocean bar crossing. (I will admit I'm not fully up with it though so won't be 100% correct)

I was at bare island in la perouse on the weekend and there was a sign there saying life jackets were now mandatory for rock fishing from this year. almost everyone on the rocks was just sightseeing, and the few who were fishing were on the inland side of the island away from any swell going into the bay.

That rock fishers must have mandatory life vest and not everyday swimmers is an 'oppression by the majority' problem shared by the MHL. I find it surprising how many people care about the safety of other people doing things that they don't do themselves and otherwise has no effect on them. Its unfortunate MHL gets passed because of motoring majorities. As Human pointed out about rock climbing, minority communities should self-regulate safety rather than be the victim of politicians scoring empathy points from the anxious and trembling.

[yugyug]

And in NSW, admittedly not for all water activities though. Kayaking, small boats, children, ocean bar crossing. (I will admit I'm not fully up with it though so won't be 100% correct)

I was at bare island in la perouse on the weekend and there was a sign there saying life jackets were now mandatory for rock fishing from this year. almost everyone on the rocks was just sightseeing, and the few who were fishing were on the inland side of the island away from any swell going into the bay.

That rock fishers must have mandatory life vest and not everyday swimmers is an 'oppression by the majority' problem shared by the MHL. I find it surprising how many people care about the safety of other people doing things that they don't do themselves and otherwise has no effect on them. Its unfortunate MHL gets passed because of motoring majorities. As Human pointed out about rock climbing, minority communities should self-regulate safety rather than be the victim of politicians scoring empathy points from the anxious and trembling.

And I need another term to describe the problem of core enthusiasts within minorities (minorities within minorities) dictating safety terms to their minority community to appease the frail majority.

In the spearfishing community, there has been a small push to license spearguns and mandate the use of diver down flags (already required in competition and used by most spearfishers) based on a tiny number of mostly irrelevant injuries/events. The people behind these initiatives are %100 hardcore enthusiasts who wouldn't be burdened themselves by these regulatory requirements, but also think it would appease critics who claim to represent a public majority. Sound familiar?

Interestingly, most don't have business interest in the activity, so don't think through their ideas in terms of how it would affect participation. Which is why more bike businesses (like Cell) should push for the removal of MHL because it will increase their number of customers. I'm pretty sure MHL removal would even increase helmet sales over the long term.

[Mike Ayling]

We do in Victoria.

And in NSW,

Mandatory possession or mandatory wearing?

Mandatory to wear in small craft and mandatory to have on board in craft over a certain size.

Mike

[human909]

Mandatory to wear in small craft and mandatory to have on board in craft over a certain size.

Yep and there seems to be no rhyme nor reason to which craft you need them for and which you don't.
http://www.wearalifejacket.vic.gov.au/lifejacket-laws

Bad luck if you want to go for a lazy kayak or canoe on a lake. All good if you are hitting up serious surf on a surfboard.

[fat and old]

Mandatory to wear in small craft and mandatory to have on board in craft over a certain size.

Yep and there seems to be no rhyme nor reason to which craft you need them for and which you don't.
http://www.wearalifejacket.vic.gov.au/lifejacket-laws

Bad luck if you want to go for a lazy kayak or canoe on a lake. All good if you are hitting up serious surf on a surfboard.

Have to disagree (not because it's you tho... . Personal experience in this case). The laws as you linked make as much sense as can be had given the large variance at short notice in weather conditions. Having experienced this myself on Dartmouth I can see the reasoning. Not to mention that all it takes for a fella to become a "serious" offshore angler going out 50+ km to chase Tuna (here in Vic) is deep pockets and/or no fear. Common sense is optional. Peak season out of Portland can bring out the morons in a big, big way!

[human909]

The laws as you linked make as much sense as can be had given the large variance at short notice in weather conditions.

I agree I think in many cases those LAWS are excellent safety advice. But mandating it is a joke.

Anglers? A pair of boardies is far cheaper than a boat. So is a surfboard. The statistics of deaths and injuries is pretty bad for those activities....

Common sense is optional in life. That is not new. But that is no reason to regulate everything. Like I said. Why would I need a life vest in a canoe on a small lake? Let people make the sensible choices. Not a one size fits all approach.

[StevOz]

If you have passed in advanced cycling, you should be exempt from such..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RAkY4R691E

Same, if you have passed your swimming certificates up to at least your survival certificate which in my day meant you had to complete a 1KM swim fully clothed shoes, jeans, shirt and jumper in less then an hour. No need for a safety jacket.

Actually they should fine and force away people from within 500 metres of any water body if you they can't swim.

[Comedian]

Mandatory life jackets. I really can't see any difference..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujs6DJAMGp0

[fat and old]

Let people make the sensible choices. Not a one size fits all approach.

I agree wholeheartedly Human. Unfortunately sensible and choices seem to be mutually exclusive on the water.

Think of your canoe as a cyclist, the average 4-5m boat as a car, and anything over 6.5m (of which there is more and more every year) as a truck. Jet skis as a moron in a jacked hilux or purple Commodore ute. And the weather conditions can affect them a thousand times more than a terrestrial vehicle. And they don't need to pass a license test. On their own, anyway.

Actually they should fine and force away people from within 500 metres of any water body if you they can't swim.

+1,000. It's those people who cause mandatory laws to be enacted. If you can't be bothered learning how to swim you have no business in a watercraft.

Edit: I have a good mate owns a boating dealership down on the Peninsula. Over the course of the first three weeks of chrissie holidays, he recorded 5 iirc bowriders that had taken a wave over the front and sunk or foundered around the area (inside the bay!). Inexperience. Stupidity. Whatever you want to call it. Those "skippers" put themselves (too bad) and their pax (not too bad!) at risk. That's why laws are mandatory.

Edit edit: On the canoe in a lake; I know and appreciate your nominating a "small" lake. OTOH, take said canoe out into Dartmouth, or maybe Lonsdale, Eucumbene or others without a jacket and you're taking too big a risk. I've seen how quickly the weather can change. It can get scary. How do you make a distinction?

[human909]

Edit edit: On the canoe in a lake; I know and appreciate your nominating a "small" lake. OTOH, take said canoe out into Dartmouth, or maybe Lonsdale, Eucumbene or others without a jacket and you're taking too big a risk. I've seen how quickly the weather can change. It can get scary. How do you make a distinction?

CHOICE. Choice makes the distinction. Sort of the same way most countries make the distinction between your oma-fiets to the shops vs bombing down a double black diamonds single track.

Likewise hikers and walkers are allowed to go out into our bush largely unregulated. Most of the time their sensible choices keep them alive. Shoe we have mandatory rainjackets? Mandatory supplies of water? These are basics that can and do save peoples lives or without them lead to people's deaths.

[mikesbytes]

Yesterday I was sitting in Adora coffee shop, which those who live in Sydney know its on the Cooks River cycle way.

On the road bridge crossing the river the Police had setup breath testing. Then a older gentleman on a BSO crossed the road to continue riding along the bike path. He wasn't wearing a helmet and I thought he's gunna be nabbed for sure but the Police officer ignored him. It was clear that these police were interested in laws where safety was significant, ie drink driving and not concerning themselves with the low risk of riding slowly along an off road bike path

[bychosis]

As I travel around on bike, in car, on foot, I see quite a few helmet less riders. I don't think: 'oohh, you are going to die!' I think: 'that's going to be expensive if the police get involved'

[Comedian]

As I travel around on bike, in car, on foot, I see quite a few helmet less riders. I don't think: 'oohh, you are going to die!' I think: 'that's going to be expensive if the police get involved'

Im my experience, wearing a helmet is 98% effective at stopping you being booked for not wearing a helmet.

I do the same. I see someone riding sans lid and think "Wow that must be pleasant - I hope they don't book you.".

[jasonc]

I see someone riding sans lid and think "Wow that must be pleasant - I hope they don't book you.".

Go down the gold coast. It's as common as a bikini

[StevOz]

Eh...going topless at the Gold Coast is common, well blow me.

[find_bruce]

What cracks me up is the apparent confusion about whether it is real 'Joggers must wear helmets' signs appear on Sydney beaches, although I think Courtney has it figured out “The government website doesn’t work so it could be real,”

[Comedian]

What cracks me up is the apparent confusion about whether it is real 'Joggers must wear helmets' signs appear on Sydney beaches, although I think Courtney has it figured out “The government website doesn’t work so it could be real,”

Hey if you go for a jog without a helmet and fall over. Don't expect us to cover your medical costs. You knew the risks.

[Mulger bill]

What cracks me up is the apparent confusion about whether it is real 'Joggers must wear helmets' signs appear on Sydney beaches, although I think Courtney has it figured out “The government website doesn’t work so it could be real,”

Hey if you go for a jog without a helmet and fall over. Don't expect us to cover your medical costs. You knew the risks.

I'm waiting for the first bit of "I hit my head once while jogging once and the..." anecdata to surface...

[mikesbytes]

What cracks me up is the apparent confusion about whether it is real 'Joggers must wear helmets' signs appear on Sydney beaches, although I think Courtney has it figured out “The government website doesn’t work so it could be real,”

Hey if you go for a jog without a helmet and fall over. Don't expect us to cover your medical costs. You knew the risks.

I'm waiting for the first bit of "I hit my head once while jogging once and the..." anecdata to surface...

arrr but the greatest danger when jogging is being hit by a motor vehicle so instead of mandating helmets for joggers they should ban motor vehicles from locations that people jog in. Just like how they removed the coconut trees from QLD beaches

[Comedian]

Hey if you go for a jog without a helmet and fall over. Don't expect us to cover your medical costs. You knew the risks.

I'm waiting for the first bit of "I hit my head once while jogging once and the..." anecdata to surface...

arrr but the greatest danger when jogging is being hit by a motor vehicle so instead of mandating helmets for joggers they should ban motor vehicles from locations that people jog in. Just like how they removed the coconut trees from QLD beaches

Aaah but the coconut industry can't afford to pay out the politicians.

[AUbicycles]

Just going to drop this in here and slowly back away hoping that no one notices who brought it in...

[Mulger bill]

[mikesbytes]

We have discussed just about everything related to helmets in this thread and I'm pretty sure we discussed the legality of attaching accessories to our helmets, usually lights or cameras.

Browsing a motorbike site I've come upon a helmet that has bluetooth incorporated and the helmet is dot approved, which is an overseas standard

https://rideapart.com/articles/get-conn ... alf-helmet

Is there any accessories that are Australian approved for bicycle helmets? Got a feeling that there was one with a tail light