Bollards!
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Bollards!
Postby HausFinch » Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:19 am
I've often wondered how many accidents are caused by these bollards. These are tall steel posts painted yellow with red reflective tape around them. Also, what is the best design for such barriers? Above hand strike height or below? Why not just fine drivers for using the path for access? Are bollards more hazard than they're worth?
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Re: Bollards!
Postby opik_bidin » Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:57 am
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Re: Bollards!
Postby human909 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:08 am
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Re: Bollards!
Postby AdelaidePeter » Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:18 am
But one thing I could never find out was how obligatory these standards are; or if they are "more like guidelines".
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Re: Bollards!
Postby RonK » Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:34 am
No. I'd prefer to negotiate the odd bollard than encounter errant motorists, nutcases or perhaps terrorists on the bike paths.HausFinch wrote:Why not just fine drivers for using the path for access? Are bollards more hazard than they're worth?
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Re: Bollards!
Postby JPB » Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:45 am
I would have an issue if they were just in the middle of normal path.
My gripe is when a bollard has been taken out to allow access by maintenance workers or similar and there is a 5cm stub sticking out of the path.
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Re: Bollards!
Postby HausFinch » Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:37 pm
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Re: Bollards!
Postby Scintilla » Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:27 pm
Most of the rail-trails in Victoria now have very few bollards, and often very few gateway/chicanes to deter vehicle entry. There is no significant problem with illicit motor vehicle access on the trails.RonK wrote:No. I'd prefer to negotiate the odd bollard than encounter errant motorists, nutcases or perhaps terrorists on the bike paths.HausFinch wrote:Why not just fine drivers for using the path for access? Are bollards more hazard than they're worth?
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Re: Bollards!
Postby human909 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:35 pm
RonK wrote:or perhaps terrorists on the bike paths.
Seriously. Come back to reality.
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Re: Bollards!
Postby Tamiya » Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:57 pm
MAMILs riding too fast for their surroundings...?human909 wrote:RonK wrote:or perhaps terrorists on the bike paths.
Seriously. Come back to reality.
Otoh My elders recall firsthand witnessing of the Japanese riding pushbikes thru vanquished Malaya on their way south to conquer Singapore... although I don't think they had bike paths, more like "took the lane"
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Re: Bollards!
Postby RonK » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:32 pm
Haha. This is the reality. Think it couldn’t happen here?human909 wrote:RonK wrote:or perhaps terrorists on the bike paths.
Seriously. Come back to reality.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/28/nyre ... nalty.html
And no nutcases either I suppose?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/January ... prov=sfti1
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Re: Bollards!
Postby human909 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:47 am
Risk and likelihood mate. Should every footpath be similarly protected from terrorists?RonK wrote:Haha. This is the reality. Think it couldn’t happen here?
Lets keep things in perspective. I would quote all the thousands of road death articles we'd be here all month.RonK wrote:And no nutcases either I suppose?
Bike path bollards haven't been about terrorism mate.
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Re: Bollards!
Postby g-boaf » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:04 am
Trail bikes are the problem. They are a big issue around here and going flying past pedestrians and others at 50kmh or more is hardly safe.Tamiya wrote:MAMILs riding too fast for their surroundings...?human909 wrote:RonK wrote:or perhaps terrorists on the bike paths.
Seriously. Come back to reality.
Otoh My elders recall firsthand witnessing of the Japanese riding pushbikes thru vanquished Malaya on their way south to conquer Singapore... although I don't think they had bike paths, more like "took the lane"
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Re: Bollards!
Postby StevOz » Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:53 am
That bollard has been removed, just as well my bone mended itself.
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Re: Bollards!
Postby human909 » Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:26 pm
Agreed that is a problem. But I don't see that bollards are a solution.g-boaf wrote:Trail bikes are the problem. They are a big issue around here and going flying past pedestrians and others at 50kmh or more is hardly safe.
They are a safety hazard when placed in the middle of a cycle path.
StevOz wrote:Just going on night I hit one of these in the middle of a pathway and broke my back, a spur on one of my lower vetebre. was out of action for a month.
That bollard has been removed, just as well my bone mended itself.
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Re: Bollards!
Postby Mububban » Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:12 pm
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Re: Bollards!
Postby human909 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:23 pm
I've seen then in all sorts of places, though thankfully it seems most around me councils have recognised the danger it presents. Even at intersections they seem dangerous, especially if it is an intersection which might have bicycle lights.Mububban wrote:I've only ever seen bollards at entry and exit points, street crossing etc where they want you to slow down, not in the middle of a long stretch of path? That's some terrible design if they've put them on the "highway" rather than the "intersections"
Other approaches should be considered, they are a hazard to have in the middle of a path. At the very least there should be good sightlines and appropriate surface marking.
More discussion here:
http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/20 ... ds-on.html
In Amsterdam, bollards or Amsterdammertjes have been ubiquitous for a century and even longer. But these are now being phased out and removed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amsterdammertje
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Re: Bollards!
Postby NASHIE » Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:36 pm
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Re: Bollards!
Postby Cycleops70 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:40 pm
There is nothing to either side of it, so it's not preventing motor vehicle access, but it is on a change of direction, so I felt it posed an unnecessary risk to lent over bikes, for no apparent benefit.
The response I got was; "we had some complaints about bikes entering the road too fast, so we put the bollard in place to fix that" (it doesn't).
It is a reflection of our car centric bias, that when motorists are not compliant (for example, driving down the grass on a median strip to get to turning lanes) that we spend thousands of dollars to extend lanes to accommodate this.
But when cyclists are not compliant, we put barriers in place to stop them.
https://www.google.com.au/maps/(AT)-31.889 ... D100?hl=en
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Re: Bollards!
Postby uart » Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:08 pm
Imagine the uproar if someone even suggested (let alone widely implement) "silent cops" that could kill or maim drivers.Cycleops70 wrote:I contacted Stirling council (WA) about a bollard placed in the middle of the PSP north of Perth (Civic place).
There is nothing to either side of it, so it's not preventing motor vehicle access, but it is on a change of direction, so I felt it posed an unnecessary risk to lent over bikes, for no apparent benefit.
The response I got was; "we had some complaints about bikes entering the road too fast, so we put the bollard in place to fix that" (it doesn't).
It is a reflection of our car centric bias, that when motorists are not compliant (for example, driving down the grass on a median strip to get to turning lanes) that we spend thousands of dollars to extend lanes to accommodate this.
But when cyclists are not compliant, we put barriers in place to stop them.
https://www.google.com.au/maps/(AT)-31.889 ... D100?hl=en
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Re: Bollards!
Postby Scott_C » Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:32 pm
We got 2 days of nightly news stories just over a year ago when a developer built a road before an existing power pole was to be relocated such that the pole was located 50cm into the roadway for 3 weeks.uart wrote:Imagine the uproar if someone even suggested (let alone widely implement) "silent cops" that could kill or maim drivers.
https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/landsdal ... b88627661z
Conversely, the power poles in the West Swan Road shared path, that killed a rider in 2014, are barely mentioned and are "protected" with a bit of a paint that directs you to swerve around them into the on-coming side of the path.
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Re: Bollards!
Postby find_bruce » Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:38 pm
Shame the guidelines are routinely ignored, at least when it comes to bicycles.Cycling Aspects of Austroads Guides (2017 Edition) wrote:7.8 Path Terminal Treatments
These devices can be hazardous to cyclists and they generally should not be installed unless:
- unauthorised motor vehicle access may result in damage to path structures
- there is clear evidence of unauthorised and undesirable motor vehicle access
- the device is effective at excluding such vehicles and not readily circumvented.
Even worse are those hoop barriers that are difficult to safely navigate past & effectively prevent particular types of bicycles - long (eg tandem, cargo, recumbents) or wide (trikes, trailers, cargo) eg
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Re: Bollards!
Postby Cycleops70 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:34 pm
Oh, I didn't realise someone had died there.Scott_C wrote: Conversely, the power poles in the West Swan Road shared path, that killed a rider in 2014
At least they painted them yellow! That'll fix it
Whiteman park have recently installed banana bars everywhere.
I'd read in qld they they were removing these because they were dangerous.
Nice to see we're with the times.
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Re: Bollards!
Postby Scott_C » Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:43 pm
Probably the best article on it, with photo showing how ridiculous it is:Cycleops70 wrote:Oh, I didn't realise someone had died there.Scott_C wrote: Conversely, the power poles in the West Swan Road shared path, that killed a rider in 2014
https://www.communitynews.com.au/the-ad ... rous-path/
The death wasn't solely due to the infrastructure (the rider was apparently on a motorised bike with no headlights on a wet night) but there is no way that the infrastructure provided comes anywhere near to being fit for purpose as a bi-directional shared path.
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Re: Bollards!
Postby Cycleops70 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:24 pm
Thanks.Scott_C wrote: Probably the best article on it, with photo showing how ridiculous it is:
https://www.communitynews.com.au/the-ad ... rous-path/
"City chief executive Mike Foley said the path was safe at night, as long as users rode to the conditions."
Yeah, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't tolerate poles in the middle of the road.
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