The real reason cycleways are empty

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mikesbytes
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The real reason cycleways are empty

Postby mikesbytes » Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:07 pm

Interesting article about bike paths in NZ

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... fmax-MNyYE
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Re: The real reason cycleways are empty

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:18 pm

So his argument amounts to:
(1) If the bikeways are empty then they are useless
(2) If they are choked with eager cyclists then they are badly designed

I don't know about NZ infrastructure but, in my expereience, mostly they ARE used and NEVER clogged. His need to suggest to the author that there is a third scenario.

I WOULD like to see more on the bike paths however. They are very seldom anywhere near capacity and could carry double the traffic without greatly affecting ease of travel or time (excluding those using them as training routes). Certainly they are underutilized compared to roads.
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Re: The real reason cycleways are empty

Postby RonK » Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:26 am

I think you need to read the article again. It was defending bike lanes
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Re: The real reason cycleways are empty

Postby bychosis » Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:34 am

ColinOldnCranky wrote:So his argument amounts to:
(1) If the bikeways are empty then they are useless...
I didn’t get that at all, but didn’t watch the video. I thought the text was saying that they are empty because they are too efficient and that people choosing to cycle was better because there was less car traffic.
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Re: The real reason cycleways are empty

Postby outnabike » Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:09 pm

Hi Colin,
I got that he was defending the cyclists amount of use and debunking negative media that was recently published. (but he didn't quote it).

He indicated that the media figures (whatever they were), were comparing apples with bananas against what he foresaw in path use growth. He was defending more bike paths.

But maybe I am looking on the rosy side.... :)
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Re: The real reason cycleways are empty

Postby find_bruce » Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:55 pm

I thought the real reason cycleways look empty was the same reason bus lanes look empty & best explained in pictures, like this one

Image

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Re: The real reason cycleways are empty

Postby mikesbytes » Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:18 pm

Yes, that picture is a classic

I've cycled some of the bike paths in Auckland and almost all of the ones I have used have been built on land that is not being used for roadways or vehicle parking. Auckland is reaping the benefits of cycleways without any reduction in motor vehicle facilities
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Re: The real reason cycleways are empty

Postby mikesbytes » Mon Nov 14, 2022 9:15 pm

Some research on bike commuting in Brisbane
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/nation ... 5bxip.html
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Re: The real reason cycleways are empty

Postby brumby33 » Mon Nov 14, 2022 9:55 pm

We can't be the city we want to be in 50 years if we don't start working towards it now. Imagine if 50 years ago we'd built a subway network underground? We'd all be getting in and out of Auckland so much faster these days, instead of clogging up the motorways on this seemingly day-long rush hour we live in. We can't be short-sighted and assume that, because not many of us will use it now, it's not worth investing in.

This is what I got most out of, more or less saying good infrastructure takes time, the longer you leave it, the harder it will be.
The way more people today are very health conscious, the way that Cycling not only keeps one fit but also gives them a smaller footprint and an alternative way to get to work.
Can you imagine our Big Cities in Australia if they don't invest in active transport now, what will our cities be like in 50 years' time? It'll just be more expensive toll roads; tunnels and they'll still be chock-a-block, bumper to bumper kms long queues, the cost of productivity, the increase in mental health issues of over stressed workers.

As Australia's population grows, possibly to 10-12 million people in the next 50 years, there'll be more pressure placed on product delivery, so if it's still done by truck in the 2070's then there's going to be issues. I'm not talking about your drone food delivery either.

On a side note, we've all seen bicycle technology advance in the past 20 years, imagine what it'll be like in the 2070's. Many of us here are over their 50's so yeah, we may never see it, but it won't take long. :P
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Re: The real reason cycleways are empty

Postby Thoglette » Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:18 am

brumby33 wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 9:55 pm
This is what I got most out of, more or less saying good infrastructure takes time, the longer you leave it, the harder it will be.
But we need to FIX THE ROADS :shock:
(I've said it before, rail needs to learn from the various departments for freeways as they always manage to be "shovel ready")
brumby33 wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 9:55 pm
On a side note, we've all seen bicycle technology advance in the past 20 years, imagine what it'll be like in the 2070's. Many of us here are over their 50's so yeah, we may never see it, but it won't take long. :P
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Re: The real reason cycleways are empty

Postby g-boaf » Tue Nov 15, 2022 7:47 pm

Edit: Hang on, what the heck - holy thread digging up batman! :roll: This topic was from 2018. :oops:

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Re: The real reason cycleways are empty

Postby Mububban » Fri Nov 18, 2022 10:56 am

find_bruce wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:55 pm
I thought the real reason cycleways look empty was the same reason bus lanes look empty & best explained in pictures, like this one

Image

I've never seen this picture but have saved it for future reference!
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Re: The real reason cycleways are empty

Postby warthog1 » Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:03 am

g-boaf wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 7:47 pm
Edit: Hang on, what the heck - holy thread digging up batman! :roll: This topic was from 2018. :oops:
Well we aren't exactly flooded with new threads. :(
Dredge away! :)
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Re: The real reason cycleways are empty

Postby AUbicycles » Sat Dec 10, 2022 11:40 pm

Connected bike lanes and properly linking start and destinations is overlooked in planning and evaluating them.

If a bike lane is built between two locations (and maybe is also not the most direct route, but one that keeps the bikes away from ‘car priority’ routes, a person travelling needs to get to the lane/path and then leave it at some point to get their destination. When these connections are missing and there are a bunch of partial links and partial ‘bike safety’ it is still not as inviting as when safe cycling us holistic.

This is one of the reasons The Netherlands and Denmark are miles ahead as it is more than just selective bike lanes for a partial solution… it feels like most routes provide and on-street or separated lane so your own individual preferred route can be taken.
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Re: The real reason cycleways are empty

Postby DavidS » Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:57 am

Another critical aspect is that separated bike lanes are normal in the Netherlands and Denmark, here they are just an aberration to be ignored.

Something needs to be done to sort out the bike lanes because the lanes where there are parked cars to your right and driveways are a mess, and the left hooking at intersections is rife.

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Re: The real reason cycleways are empty

Postby bychosis » Sun Dec 11, 2022 8:21 am

https://youtu.be/Uhx-26GfCBU

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Re: The real reason cycleways are empty

Postby mikesbytes » Sun Dec 11, 2022 9:39 am

bychosis wrote:
Sun Dec 11, 2022 8:21 am
https://youtu.be/Uhx-26GfCBU

Infrastructure is what gets people to cycle.
4 metres of separated cycle path per person. How many metres of separated cycle paths per person in Sydney?
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: The real reason cycleways are empty

Postby bychosis » Mon Dec 12, 2022 8:45 am

mikesbytes wrote:
Sun Dec 11, 2022 9:39 am
bychosis wrote:
Sun Dec 11, 2022 8:21 am
https://youtu.be/Uhx-26GfCBU

Infrastructure is what gets people to cycle.
4 metres of separated cycle path per person. How many metres of separated cycle paths per person in Sydney?
Probably less than 4mm
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Re: The real reason cycleways are empty

Postby mikesbytes » Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:54 pm

bychosis wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 8:45 am
mikesbytes wrote:
Sun Dec 11, 2022 9:39 am
bychosis wrote:
Sun Dec 11, 2022 8:21 am
https://youtu.be/Uhx-26GfCBU

Infrastructure is what gets people to cycle.
4 metres of separated cycle path per person. How many metres of separated cycle paths per person in Sydney?
Probably less than 4mm
Can't find a figure, someone could probably calculate from wiki?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bike_paths_in_Sydney
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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