Touring hubs

[battler2]

Looking at buying some touring hubs to build up with some strong and wide(r) rims for a bit of extra reliability and mileage so I don't need to service often.

I am looking at 36 hole for the rear, to put with reasonable rims like H+ Archetype or Velocity A23, and either 28 or 32 on the front for future weight support of front pannier bags (probably 32).

So far the following look good:

Phil Wood Touring hubs https://www.philwood.com/products/hubsp ... nghubs.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- pricey but apparently the best
- no special tools required for maintenance
- heavier but stronger materials
- up to 48h

White Industries MI5 http://www.whiteind.com/mi5/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- technically a MTB hub
- lighter
- cheaper
- up to 40h

Chris King hubs (R45 etc)
- not touring specific
- widely renowned
- only up to 32 hole

DT Swiss 240
- not touring specific
- up to 32 hole

Shimano Deore XT hub
- MTB as well
- Apparently quality has dimished now. Lots of bad reports.
- spare parts are always a pain with Shimano

I'm also concerned about price, as the exchange rate is plummeting, but I fear that it could go as low as 50-60c, making it even worse. Same goes for buying anything else I need to get.

Is there anything I'm missing/haven't listed here? The PW is tempting, buy once and forget. But I'd hate to fork out for a 36H and want a 40+H later on for heavier touring. It's a tough decision to make at this point in time!

I searched, and can't find another thread like this in this forum.

[Rodgerbiltit]

I've toured extensively on Chris King (Classic Mountain 36H Rear and Classic Front). They are works of art, have never given me any trouble and telling people "it's my motor in the back" has been fun! If you wish to service them you will need to purchase the separate tools etc which can be a PITA.
The Phil Wood hubs look to be (if you are willing to afford them) a good option.
For practicality/serviceability (by you - anywhere), I'd think that Shimano XT would be a good compromise. Surely their quality hasn't deteriorated that much!
I'm about to leave all of the above behind and launch into a new build with Rohloff Speedhub and SON 28 dynohub!

[silentbutdeadly]

I can vouch for the White Industries M series hubs.

You should also consider Hope hubs which can be had in 36 hole I think even in their non disc hubs. Another pricey but magnificent option is Royce from the UK. Or for the rampantly not much internet...Hadley Racing in the US but you need to phone them!

[tmac100]

A decade ago I started collecting parts on eBat for my Arvon1 touring bike. I managed to find brand new (never laced) 48 hole Phil Woods hubs for about $400. These hubs are excellent and have never required any maintenance so far. They took me from Perth to Peterborough this July-August.

Ebay does have some great buys.

[il padrone]

Rohloff

32 spokes is about all most people need for load-carrying, with a symmetric wheel (zero-dish)

[Mike Ayling]

Rohloff

32 spokes is about all most people need for load-carrying, with a symmetric wheel (zero-dish)

+1 for Rohloff and if you are not going for a front dynohub Thorn recommend Hope front hubs instead of their entry level Deore. Both 32 spokes.

Mike

[battler2]

apparently Hope use proprietary bearings, so not as easily obtainable in places where choices are limited.

i know 32 might be enough, but i'm already naturally heavy, and to future proof a wheelset i'd want 36 on the back at least.

Rohloff look complicated :/ maybe for a dedicated touring bike in the future.

looks like either PW or WI but being quoted a ridiculous amount for PW hubs, but the WI is only about 100 less. i'll need to keep shopping around, but AVT bike (aspire velotech) is the cheapest ive found so far, but they want 639USD for both front and rear incl. shipping.

bikehubstore have MI6's but not MI5's, don't need the disc mount. They do have T11 though, but not ideally suited to touring.

[Rodgerbiltit]

I can recommend Aspire Velotech - that's where I purchased my Chris King.
Phil Wood in 36H seems your best option? Very reliable.

[RonK]

i'll need to keep shopping around, but AVT bike (aspire velotech) is the cheapest ive found so far, but they want 639USD for both front and rear incl. shipping.

That is seriously overkill. You're a first-time bike tourer, you don't have a dedicated touring bike, and you're going to pay over $AUD900 just for hubs?

Perhaps you should consider a name change, you're apparently not a battler

A more rational choice would be Velo-Orange Grand Cru hubs.

Grand Cru High Flange Front Hub
Grand Cru Touring Hub.

Rear hub is offered in both 130mm or 135mm spacings. Both offered with or without disc mounts.



Or perhaps go further and consider a wheelset. Wheels with Raid rims would be more than adequate for your Lynskey.

[battler2]

yeah, i know it's extreme. but i'm thinking 'buy once last forever', heard a few bad reports on velo-orange (you get what you pay for). and yes, i will definitely have a dedicated touring bike in the near future. although who knows, i might go disc, so need new hubs again LOL.

they got back to me again, with 609 now. the exchange rate is plummeting, now 69c, and it's tipped to drop to 50 by mid next year, which is definitely believable. it could be another few years at least before it goes back up again.

anyone know how much a LBS would charge? or would it be this + tax markup + profit margin? probably, i'm afraid to ask.

if BHS could get back to me on the WI MI5, i'd get those (as their prices are always good, and they have a 10% spokes deal), but i might just rush in and order the PW.

[RonK]

yeah, i know it's extreme. but i'm thinking 'buy once last forever', heard a few bad reports on velo-orange (you get what you pay for). and yes, i will definitely have a dedicated touring bike in the near future. although who knows, i might go disc, so need new hubs again LOL.

Unless you're planning a world tour and you're going to use a heavy expedition touring bike you just don't need $900 hubs.

[baabaa]

Not sure if you are thinking rim or disc brakes but as you mention a few brands that I run, I guess you are after owner reports? All are 32 hole and I weigh 80 kgs.
My ranking….
Shimano XT disc front & rear, silver pretty poor with bearings needing quite a lot of time to keep fully maintained, finish just ok for the price these are cheap but just would not bother again.
DT Swiss 350 f & r black not too bad for the price and use these for touring and commuting, have matched up to a solid touring rim - tk540 rims so have had no issues with having to re-true up wheels. Heavy once built up but very reliable. Blackness/ paint/ anno on hubs seems to be thin so a little oxidation found on front hub. I don't mind battle scars on a bike, but looks like I could do a good match up on these with a black sharpy pen....
Hope Mono rs f & r black quite like these but on the road bike so not intended for loaded touring, well made and the bearings seem to last very well good solid black but these things are fancy but bloody loud. For me I like the company and use hope seat post and stems and skewers but I wouldn’t use the hubs for long heavy touring but the disc versions maybe a better option.
Phil Wood kiss with a skewer disc front and ss bolt-on disc rear and yes again in black. The finish on these is way better compared to the others above, the coating is chunky and even the hub spoke drillings seem to be just better. Yes phils are a buy once and buy well as they are built to last. Mine do not seem to show any wear and a bit of water and soft cloth and they look shiny and brand new, found mine slow to break the bearings in but then spin and spin and….thinking I will go a rear 10 speed disc wheel to match the front wheel as these live on my bike which has an ebb so I can go from gears and to back to ss without any issues.

I would also have a look at Suzue high flange Classica Road Hub, have run a set of 36 suzue hubs on an old 26 inch ATB used as a heavy touring bike and couldn’t kill them.
Bit hard to buy a rim brake hub and then run discs, but you can a run disc hub without the rotors as a rim brake hub. Just make sure the rear spacing is the same or wider for the next bike/ frame.

[Espresso_]

I can't help but think XT is the way to go (for you).

You'll find some bad reports about XT because they sell in quantities of, I'd guess, 10-50 times the other hubs, so even smaller failure rates will produce much larger numbers of adverse reports. (Not saying the others aren't better, I'm just saying the XT is probably good enough).

But seriously, given you're new to all this you'll probably want to work your way into it. Once you've done your first 5,000km tour (and all the hubs you list would be good for this kind of distance, I'd say) then see where you're at.

You might want to go Rohlhoff, dyno hub, through axle, rear dyno, 142mm rear, disk brake - gees who knows? And mostly importantly, you probably don't.

In the mean time you've had a great time in good value hubs

E

[battler2]

Unless you're planning a world tour and you're going to use a heavy expedition touring bike you just don't need $900 hubs

this is true, but unless most riders are in the top 1% of climbs for their area, they also don't need 10k bikes, or carbon wheels, or or or...

some things are just nice to have. but yes, if i can get the MI5 at a good price, i think i will go with those. my heavy expedition touring bike for a world tour is at least a few years off otherwise PW all the way, damn good thing i don't have a finance manager in my life!

Bit hard to buy a rim brake hub and then run discs, but you can a run disc hub without the rotors as a rim brake hub. Just make sure the rear spacing is the same or wider for the next bike/ frame.

damn good point, i don't know why i didn't consider this before. bit of extra weight isn't going to matter in the short term for the future proofing.

suzue are only 10sp unfortunately.

[battler2]

I can't help but think XT is the way to go (for you).

You'll find some bad reports about XT because they sell in quantities of, I'd guess, 10-50 times the other hubs, so even smaller failure rates will produce much larger numbers of adverse reports. (Not saying the others aren't better, I'm just saying the XT is probably good enough).

But seriously, given you're new to all this you'll probably want to work your way into it. Once you've done your first 5,000km tour (and all the hubs you list would be good for this kind of distance, I'd say) then see where you're at.

You might want to go Rohlhoff, dyno hub, through axle, rear dyno, 142mm rear, disk brake - gees who knows? And mostly importantly, you probably don't.

In the mean time you've had a great time in good value hubs

E

agree with the failure rates and reporting, and when it's a premium product people tend to be more vocal about them (rightly so). XT is only 10sp at the moment from what i can see, so it rules it out unfortunately.

and yeah, a dedicated touring frame could be very differently specced, rendering any hubs i buy now useless later on. disc, thru-axle etc. are already on the cards.

[Espresso_]

agree with the failure rates and reporting, and when it's a premium product people tend to be more vocal about them (rightly so). XT is only 10sp at the moment from what i can see, so it rules it out unfortunately.

1) XT is not THAT premium - they aren't even the best hubs that Shimano make.

2) Did I miss the part where you said you were planning to run 11sp??

E

[singlespeedscott]

You want serious touring hubs and your going 11 speed? That doesn't sound like a good combination. I would just get some older model XT's. Have a look at chain reaction cycles. My old xt' a on my single speed have been hammered and never needed any love.

[Espresso_]

XT is only 10sp at the moment from what i can see, so it rules it out unfortunately.

I've re-read this thread.

I'll note firstly that XT were on your original list, so if that's ruled them out why were you considering them at all?

Secondly, if you are looking for 36 hole 11 speed hubs I would doubt that all the others are suitably specc'ed, too. I haven't checked but it's an odd combination for a non-disc hub - most 11sp rim brake hubs would be built for high end road bikes and you'll find very few with 36 spoke wheels if any.

Thirdly if you're touring on 11sp then fine, but you'll need to stop worrying about massive reliability or special parts for servicing the hubs. There will be other points of failure (like the rear dérailleur) that will be harder to sort or replace on tour if anything goes wrong.

E

[battler2]

2) Did I miss the part where you said you were planning to run 11sp??

E

yeah, i know this is all kind of silly (can't help salivating over the best). i'm now just considering building up some WI T11's with a higher spoke count on the rear, and leaving the rest for the future. i can reuse the wheels as training ones later on when i'm not touring without it being ridiculous.

i just don't want to use my zonda 20/24 wheels and find the spoke pops or wheel goes out of true in a 3rd world country with no hope of getting a replacement. the weight limit is 109, i'm already near that with frame, not taking into account a reasonable load of food and technology.

I'll note firstly that XT were on your original list, so if that's ruled them out why were you considering them at all?

i was half considering them. didn't know the 11sp versions aren't available yet. derailleur replacement would be easier i think, screw it on and feed the cable through. too easy.

[cameronp]

most 11sp rim brake hubs would be built for high end road bikes and you'll find very few with 36 spoke wheels if any.

Shimano do them, at 105/Ultegra level, now that 105 is 11sp. I built a 36 spoke rear wheel for my road bike at the same time I built my dynamo wheel, so that I'd have a matching wheelset. The resulting wheel was about the same weight as the stock Giant Defy rear wheel despite having 8 extra spokes!

[Espresso_]

Shimano do them, at 105/Ultegra level, now that 105 is 11sp. I built a 36 spoke rear wheel for my road bike at the same time I built my dynamo wheel, so that I'd have a matching wheelset. The resulting wheel was about the same weight as the stock Giant Defy rear wheel despite having 8 extra spokes!

Well it looks like the OP has just found his ideal hubs!!

E

[il padrone]

most 11sp rim brake hubs would be built for high end road bikes and you'll find very few with 36 spoke wheels if any.

Shimano do them, at 105/Ultegra level, now that 105 is 11sp. I built a 36 spoke rear wheel for my road bike at the same time I built my dynamo wheel, so that I'd have a matching wheelset. The resulting wheel was about the same weight as the stock Giant Defy rear wheel despite having 8 extra spokes!

Ultegra

[battler2]

after some more deliberation, i think ultegra hubs are the wise choice. too bad 32 is the lowest avail. in front, although you can get a pair of them at ribble for around 160, but only 36H is in stock and can't mix and match. 36 in front!!!

the additional load will hardly be 15-20kg, and dropping as i consume food. going with h-son archetype rims, the grey anodised one (knowing full well the braking track won't last).

does anyone have actual correct official dimensions for these hubs? or a reliable contact from shimano? doesn't seem to be published anywhere.

[singlespeedscott]

Why would you want to use less than 32 holes for touring. I'd be going 36 front and rear. Bust a spoke on 36 spoke wheel and the thing stays true. Do that on a 28 and you won't be going anywhere if your using caliper brakes.

[il padrone]

32F and 36R used to be the touring standard for many years. The 40-60 weight split means this is certainly sufficient for most loaded touring. The rationalisation of the bicycle industry (read - penny-pinching) in the 60s-70s meant that it was deemed a lower cost to build 36 F&R wheels, and that became the default standard for many years. There is no rational need for this, unless you are a full-front-load-only tourer.