Hi Ron,
thank you for the effort of your detailed and expansive explanation including all the links.
I appreciate the time you put into this.
RonK wrote:
Yes, tent zips sometimes fail too - usually as a consequence of heavy use (or abuse), sometimes because the zips are too light or of poor quality. But like tents, frame bags made with quality zips of the appropriate type rarely fail.
Good to know that better bags zips are typically good quality and not prone to failure when appropriate care is taken of them.
The tent analogy I think is a good one.
RonK wrote:It's not wise to buy a frame bag without having a good idea what you are trying to achieve, and what you want to carry in it. A frame bag is never going to replace a pair of panniers - it will be much too small for that, and the thin shape of frame bags limits the kind of gear you can carry in them. You can't just stuff them with bulky objects - they will bulge and rub on the cranks and possibly on your legs. So they are best suited to compact objects or long thin ones.
Whilst I didn't think merely adding a frame bag alone would eliminate a pair of panniers, I can see how my rushed message might have conveyed that.
Knowing about the issues that come from over-stuffing the frame bags is good knowledge to have shared and the sort of thing easily missed by newbies
RonK wrote:Consider also that with a frame bag installed you have eliminated most of your bidon placements. Where will you carry your water? Will you festoon the frame with clamped on bidon cages? The most logical place of course is in the frame bag. Coincidentally, most frame bag designs have a hydration port in the top corner for just this purpose. And this arrangement quite naturally favours using a two-compartment, horizontally divided frame bag, with water bladders in the top compartment. This is also the ideal place to carry tent poles.
Some astute bag makers such as
Rockgeist even offer hang loops for tent poles in their frame bags. Rockgeist will make you a roll-top bag too if you must have one. According to Rockgeist, on a frame bag with moulded #10 YKK zippers, blowouts are a rare event. Its more common to see blow outs on coiled zippers (zippers with a flat outer profile covered with a shiny urethane tape). But don't overstuff them and the zips won't fail - simple as that.
Roll-top bags have vertical dividers - a divider of some form is necessary to reduce bulging, but a vertical divider is likely to further restrict the shape of the objects you can carry. And of course you have to unload a top-loader to get to stuff at the bottom.
I'm definitely not up to speed with the various dividers and their common usage so good info here.
I had bladder carrying duty as my first thought for a frame bag amongst others having read of your setup when using the Fargo.
I had a squiz at Rockgeist and their features appear quite progressive.
I remember you mentioning tent pole issues with your original tarp tent setup.
It appears that the combined experience of the readers in here that the zips will be fine if they aren't abused and their failure uncommon.
RonK wrote:When I was planning my bikepacking setup, what I was going to carry and where/how I was going to carry it was part of the planning. I already knew when I ordered my frame bag what I was going to carry in it.
What is in the bags? In the top compartment there are two 2-litre water bladders, water filter and tent poles. In the bottom compartment there is a spare tube, tools and parts, pump, chain lube, tyre sealant and other oddments. Neither compartment is overfull so there is no bulge, and there is still some room for a few extras such as a little reserve food if necessary.
Yes I think I'll go away and get the intended usage thoughts more firmly down pat before I revisit making choices based on weather proofing of frame bags, let alone purchase decisions.
RonK wrote:I don't put overmuch store on what people like Cass Gilbert are using. Cass uses his gear far more frequently than most and in far more extreme conditions than you or I will ever use it. And he is pretty much testing the designs his sponsors supply.
Sounds logical and like sage advice so thanks for your input.
I think having caught up with some bills and having a few spare pennies in my pocket, I was getting ahead of myself.
Sorry this response isn't as timely as I would have liked, nor anywhere as expansive as I had intended, but I do appreciate you taking the time to have put your thoughts to keyboard and offering the benefits of your experience.
Surly Ogre, Extrawheel trailer.