23mm+ wide profile wheels
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23mm+ wide profile wheels
Postby insightt47 » Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:25 am
This week I went back to a set of Fulcrum Racing 3's as I cracked the rims of my custom built Pacent sl23/chris king r45/cx-rays (28/28) from over tightening the spokes.
The first thing i noticed was the lack of stability and power transfer of the Fulcrums. It's likely that the high spoke count and hubs may have also had something to do with the power transfer, but i'm pretty sure the increased stability comes down to the rim profile. I also had another pair of custom built wheels with Hed Belgium C2+ rims which were 25mmm wide. The placenti sl23 are 24mm wide. Ideally I think a 23mm wide rim would be prefect for me.
So if you're pretty heavy like me at 88kg, or you like to put a bit of power down look into some wide rim choices before you go buying your next pair of Fulcrum Zero's, Mavic Kysriums Dura Ace c24's or Campagnolo Shammal's. You wont regret it (most likely). If you want the details of a quality wheel builder PM me.
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels
Postby biker jk » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:36 am
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels
Postby mitchy_ » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:41 am
my 25mm wide, 45mm deep rims with 28 spokes front and rear are solid.
25mm tyres is a tight fit in the rear of my frame, and there is no hint of rubbing even with my ~90kg standing up and mashing the pedals.
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels
Postby march83 » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:33 am
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels
Postby MattyK » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:43 am
Soul S3.0 might be worth considering too perhaps?
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels
Postby biker jk » Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:05 am
Depends what you mean by "upgrade" since the Pacenti is a lighter rim and also has issues with tyre mounting.march83 wrote:I destroyed a pair of kinlin xc279s on the weekend and i'll probably upgrade to a set of the pacenti sl23s. a set of wide training wheels in the mid 1500s sounds good to me
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels
Postby CXCommuter » Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:19 am
I won't touch Soul wheels again after the rear hub shat itself after 1000km and their warranty/communication was non existent to hopeless.
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels
Postby insightt47 » Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:47 am
I ment I rode a pair of Fulcrum Racing 3's and it reminded me of how good these wheels (the wheels i was selling) were.biker jk wrote:I thought you said you rode your Fulcrum 3s again and they reminded you how good they were compared to the wide rim custom built set? Anyway, I do agree that the wider rims build a stronger wheel as this is a function of rim depth and width (along with spoke count). The set I built with a 23mm wide by 28mm deep rim was bullet proof.
What do you guys think about using an expensive Aero rim like Enve 3.4 SES for everyday riding? Will the carbon survive the day to day bumps on the road?
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels
Postby mitchy_ » Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:57 am
not Enve, but i've ridden my carbon LB rims daily on some average roads for about 6 months. not an issue.insightt47 wrote:What do you guys think about using an expensive Aero rim like Enve 3.4 SES for everyday riding? Will the carbon survive the day to day bumps on the road?
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels
Postby march83 » Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:59 pm
a "mate" flicked a brick into my line and i hit it square on with both wheels at 40something. dented the braking surface of both rims beyond the point of no return but they're still round so i'm going to retire them to trainer duty and replace them.MattyK wrote:How'd you do that?
in no way the fault of the rim.
i'm keen to save ~80g across the pair of rims, and a bit more by swapping to cxrays. i do so many climbing kays on my training wheels that i can see the point in going lighter than the ~1600g i'm lugging around at the moment. in terms of durability, i don't see much difference between a 480g rim and a 440g rim considering the reviews of both products.biker jk wrote:Depends what you mean by "upgrade" since the Pacenti is a lighter rim and also has issues with tyre mounting.
i've read a few horror stories about mounting tyres to pacentis but i'm not too concerned. I've mounted road tubeless tyres and some devilish trainer tyres, i'm sure it's not too bad.
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels
Postby insightt47 » Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:05 pm
Normal tyres like conti Gp400s were a breeze to mount.
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels
Postby __PG__ » Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:06 am
Out of interest what was the spoke tension?insightt47 wrote: This week I went back to a set of Fulcrum Racing 3's as I cracked the rims of my custom built Pacent sl23/chris king r45/cx-rays (28/28) from over tightening the spokes.
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels
Postby slowK » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:07 pm
Similar experience here. Rear hub died within 1000km, but my lbs contacted Soul, who promptly sent out replacement parts and a upgrade to 11sp for free. The rear wheel is now fine but I think is a bit flexy laterally - I get occasional brake rub now.CXCommuter wrote:Cannot wait- LBS is building my new rear wheel this week - H+Son Archetype (24h) with Hope Mono RS hub, front wheel to follow when funds allow.
I won't touch Soul wheels again after the rear hub shat itself after 1000km and their warranty/communication was non existent to hopeless.
The front wheel is superb. Light, true, spins forever compared to my other wheels.
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels
Postby insightt47 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:15 pm
Good question haha__PG__ wrote:Out of interest what was the spoke tension?insightt47 wrote: This week I went back to a set of Fulcrum Racing 3's as I cracked the rims of my custom built Pacent sl23/chris king r45/cx-rays (28/28) from over tightening the spokes.
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels
Postby biker jk » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:34 pm
Probably well north of 130kgf.insightt47 wrote:Good question haha__PG__ wrote:Out of interest what was the spoke tension?insightt47 wrote: This week I went back to a set of Fulcrum Racing 3's as I cracked the rims of my custom built Pacent sl23/chris king r45/cx-rays (28/28) from over tightening the spokes.
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels
Postby usernameforme » Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:21 pm
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels
Postby insightt47 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:19 pm
Before this the only experience ive had with tightening spokes is on Fulcrum Racing wheels which are much thicker and stronger than the cx-rays on the Placenti's. The wheels wouldn't stay in true for more than a couple of days and they needed re-truing every month by my LBS. I was fed up with taking them to my local bike shop so the last 3 times i trued them myself. Thinking that tighter spokes would make a stiffer wheel i kept on tightening spokes wherever i could instead of loosing them on the opposite side. Eventually the rim cracked from tightening a spoke on the drive side if i recall. By that point I think the whole wheel probably needed redishing.usernameforme wrote:Out of interest, why did you crank the tension up so high? Was it an accident? Or were the NDS spokes not pulling tight even at +130kgf on the DS?
Is the creaking noise a sign that the spokes are getting too tight? MIght ask Josh whos building my next set to use loctite on the spokes.
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels
Postby usernameforme » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:49 pm
Creaking spokes could mean that they were not stress relieved - especially if they're going out of true. The creaking could be the sound of the spokes unwinding as they were wound up during building. Make sure the spokes are set and are not wound up before riding. - see sheldon brown's site for more info.
Make sure the spoke tensions are EVEN on each side of the flange, not high. What could also be happening is you have two really tight spokes next to two really loose spokes - your wheel will appear true in the rig but after a bit of riding they won't stay true. If the spoke tensions are even they should stay even.
Lastly, DON'T USE LOCTITE!! I see it as a last resort thing if I can't get the NDS spokes tight enough due to bad flange spacings. If you're building from scratch use a decent spoke prep or linseed oil. Loctite could trash your wheel.
If the wheels are built properly you should never have an issue with them, unless of course the spoke count/rim stiffness isn't adequate for your uses/ you crash.
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels
Postby insightt47 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:34 pm
The Wheel builder advised that the wheels need to be retensioned after 300 km which helped but didnt last long. I think the wheels just weren't strong enough for me. Josh is building up my next set and I haven't had any issues with his builds so far so lets hope it stays that way.
Also I think i'll leave wheel truing to the experts. In 2 years i have learnt everything there is to know about bike maintenance from servicing a crank to adjusting a derailleur but I've never been able to get the hang of wheel truing. Seems likes its more of an art and something that needs alot of practice.
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels
Postby usernameforme » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:56 pm
Josh knows what he's doing so I doubt you'd have any issues with his builds. Hope you enjoy the new wheels!
Just a last note on truing: If you ever decide to take the plunge and build your own wheels you'll find truing much easier afterwards - there's something about building wheels from scratch that "trains" the brain to "know" how much to turn/what to turn.
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