23mm+ wide profile wheels

insightt47
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23mm+ wide profile wheels

Postby insightt47 » Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:25 am

To anyone out there who is in the market for a new set of wheels, make sure you look into rims with a wider profile before bitting the bullet on your next set.

This week I went back to a set of Fulcrum Racing 3's as I cracked the rims of my custom built Pacent sl23/chris king r45/cx-rays (28/28) from over tightening the spokes.
The first thing i noticed was the lack of stability and power transfer of the Fulcrums. It's likely that the high spoke count and hubs may have also had something to do with the power transfer, but i'm pretty sure the increased stability comes down to the rim profile. I also had another pair of custom built wheels with Hed Belgium C2+ rims which were 25mmm wide. The placenti sl23 are 24mm wide. Ideally I think a 23mm wide rim would be prefect for me.

So if you're pretty heavy like me at 88kg, or you like to put a bit of power down look into some wide rim choices before you go buying your next pair of Fulcrum Zero's, Mavic Kysriums Dura Ace c24's or Campagnolo Shammal's. You wont regret it (most likely). If you want the details of a quality wheel builder PM me.

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biker jk
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels

Postby biker jk » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:36 am

I thought you said you rode your Fulcrum 3s again and they reminded you how good they were compared to the wide rim custom built set? Anyway, I do agree that the wider rims build a stronger wheel as this is a function of rim depth and width (along with spoke count). The set I built with a 23mm wide by 28mm deep rim was bullet proof.

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mitchy_
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels

Postby mitchy_ » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:41 am

i concur.

my 25mm wide, 45mm deep rims with 28 spokes front and rear are solid.
25mm tyres is a tight fit in the rear of my frame, and there is no hint of rubbing even with my ~90kg standing up and mashing the pedals.

march83
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels

Postby march83 » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:33 am

I destroyed a pair of kinlin xc279s on the weekend and i'll probably upgrade to a set of the pacenti sl23s. a set of wide training wheels in the mid 1500s sounds good to me :D

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MattyK
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels

Postby MattyK » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:43 am

How'd you do that?

Soul S3.0 might be worth considering too perhaps?

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biker jk
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels

Postby biker jk » Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:05 am

march83 wrote:I destroyed a pair of kinlin xc279s on the weekend and i'll probably upgrade to a set of the pacenti sl23s. a set of wide training wheels in the mid 1500s sounds good to me :D
Depends what you mean by "upgrade" since the Pacenti is a lighter rim and also has issues with tyre mounting.

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CXCommuter
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels

Postby CXCommuter » Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:19 am

Cannot wait- LBS is building my new rear wheel this week - H+Son Archetype (24h) with Hope Mono RS hub, front wheel to follow when funds allow.

I won't touch Soul wheels again after the rear hub shat itself after 1000km and their warranty/communication was non existent to hopeless.
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insightt47
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels

Postby insightt47 » Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:47 am

biker jk wrote:I thought you said you rode your Fulcrum 3s again and they reminded you how good they were compared to the wide rim custom built set? Anyway, I do agree that the wider rims build a stronger wheel as this is a function of rim depth and width (along with spoke count). The set I built with a 23mm wide by 28mm deep rim was bullet proof.
I ment I rode a pair of Fulcrum Racing 3's and it reminded me of how good these wheels (the wheels i was selling) were.

What do you guys think about using an expensive Aero rim like Enve 3.4 SES for everyday riding? Will the carbon survive the day to day bumps on the road?

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mitchy_
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels

Postby mitchy_ » Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:57 am

insightt47 wrote:What do you guys think about using an expensive Aero rim like Enve 3.4 SES for everyday riding? Will the carbon survive the day to day bumps on the road?
not Enve, but i've ridden my carbon LB rims daily on some average roads for about 6 months. not an issue.

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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels

Postby march83 » Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:59 pm

MattyK wrote:How'd you do that?
a "mate" flicked a brick into my line and i hit it square on with both wheels at 40something. dented the braking surface of both rims beyond the point of no return but they're still round so i'm going to retire them to trainer duty and replace them.

in no way the fault of the rim.
biker jk wrote:Depends what you mean by "upgrade" since the Pacenti is a lighter rim and also has issues with tyre mounting.
i'm keen to save ~80g across the pair of rims, and a bit more by swapping to cxrays. i do so many climbing kays on my training wheels that i can see the point in going lighter than the ~1600g i'm lugging around at the moment. in terms of durability, i don't see much difference between a 480g rim and a 440g rim considering the reviews of both products.

i've read a few horror stories about mounting tyres to pacentis but i'm not too concerned. I've mounted road tubeless tyres and some devilish trainer tyres, i'm sure it's not too bad.

insightt47
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels

Postby insightt47 » Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:05 pm

Tyre mounting hasnt been too bad on my Pacenti sl23's. Getting on Schwalbe One tubeless was a breeze and they inflated straight away. Hutchinson Intensive tubless on the other hand is another story. They're really thick and rigid so sometimes it can be a pain, and they dont always inflate immediately (sometimes not at all). They last 5 times longer than the Schwalbes and are more puncture resistant though so I think its worth the investment.

Normal tyres like conti Gp400s were a breeze to mount.

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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels

Postby __PG__ » Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:06 am

insightt47 wrote: This week I went back to a set of Fulcrum Racing 3's as I cracked the rims of my custom built Pacent sl23/chris king r45/cx-rays (28/28) from over tightening the spokes.
Out of interest what was the spoke tension?
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slowK
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels

Postby slowK » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:07 pm

CXCommuter wrote:Cannot wait- LBS is building my new rear wheel this week - H+Son Archetype (24h) with Hope Mono RS hub, front wheel to follow when funds allow.

I won't touch Soul wheels again after the rear hub shat itself after 1000km and their warranty/communication was non existent to hopeless.
Similar experience here. Rear hub died within 1000km, but my lbs contacted Soul, who promptly sent out replacement parts and a upgrade to 11sp for free. The rear wheel is now fine but I think is a bit flexy laterally - I get occasional brake rub now.

The front wheel is superb. Light, true, spins forever compared to my other wheels.

insightt47
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels

Postby insightt47 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:15 pm

__PG__ wrote:
insightt47 wrote: This week I went back to a set of Fulcrum Racing 3's as I cracked the rims of my custom built Pacent sl23/chris king r45/cx-rays (28/28) from over tightening the spokes.
Out of interest what was the spoke tension?
Good question haha

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biker jk
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels

Postby biker jk » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:34 pm

insightt47 wrote:
__PG__ wrote:
insightt47 wrote: This week I went back to a set of Fulcrum Racing 3's as I cracked the rims of my custom built Pacent sl23/chris king r45/cx-rays (28/28) from over tightening the spokes.
Out of interest what was the spoke tension?
Good question haha
Probably well north of 130kgf.

usernameforme
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels

Postby usernameforme » Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:21 pm

Out of interest, why did you crank the tension up so high? Was it an accident? Or were the NDS spokes not pulling tight even at +130kgf on the DS?

insightt47
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels

Postby insightt47 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:19 pm

usernameforme wrote:Out of interest, why did you crank the tension up so high? Was it an accident? Or were the NDS spokes not pulling tight even at +130kgf on the DS?
Before this the only experience ive had with tightening spokes is on Fulcrum Racing wheels which are much thicker and stronger than the cx-rays on the Placenti's. The wheels wouldn't stay in true for more than a couple of days and they needed re-truing every month by my LBS. I was fed up with taking them to my local bike shop so the last 3 times i trued them myself. Thinking that tighter spokes would make a stiffer wheel i kept on tightening spokes wherever i could instead of loosing them on the opposite side. Eventually the rim cracked from tightening a spoke on the drive side if i recall. By that point I think the whole wheel probably needed redishing.

Is the creaking noise a sign that the spokes are getting too tight? MIght ask Josh whos building my next set to use loctite on the spokes.

usernameforme
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels

Postby usernameforme » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:49 pm

Higher tension in spokes does not make a stiffer wheel. Things like flange spacings make a stiffer wheel. All you need to do is make sure the DS spokes are tight enough so that the NDS spokes don't go slack. Generally, hubs have 50% NDS tension so if you put 120/110 on the DS it should give you good enough tension on the NDS.

Creaking spokes could mean that they were not stress relieved - especially if they're going out of true. The creaking could be the sound of the spokes unwinding as they were wound up during building. Make sure the spokes are set and are not wound up before riding. - see sheldon brown's site for more info.

Make sure the spoke tensions are EVEN on each side of the flange, not high. What could also be happening is you have two really tight spokes next to two really loose spokes - your wheel will appear true in the rig but after a bit of riding they won't stay true. If the spoke tensions are even they should stay even.

Lastly, DON'T USE LOCTITE!! I see it as a last resort thing if I can't get the NDS spokes tight enough due to bad flange spacings. If you're building from scratch use a decent spoke prep or linseed oil. Loctite could trash your wheel.

If the wheels are built properly you should never have an issue with them, unless of course the spoke count/rim stiffness isn't adequate for your uses/ you crash.

insightt47
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels

Postby insightt47 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:34 pm

Thanks very much for the advice usernameforme.

The Wheel builder advised that the wheels need to be retensioned after 300 km which helped but didnt last long. I think the wheels just weren't strong enough for me. Josh is building up my next set and I haven't had any issues with his builds so far so lets hope it stays that way.

Also I think i'll leave wheel truing to the experts. In 2 years i have learnt everything there is to know about bike maintenance from servicing a crank to adjusting a derailleur but I've never been able to get the hang of wheel truing. Seems likes its more of an art and something that needs alot of practice.

usernameforme
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Re: 23mm+ wide profile wheels

Postby usernameforme » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:56 pm

No worries, I'm a bit cynical about the wheebuilder who suggested that the wheels should be retensioned after 300km, but each to their own.

Josh knows what he's doing so I doubt you'd have any issues with his builds. Hope you enjoy the new wheels!

Just a last note on truing: If you ever decide to take the plunge and build your own wheels you'll find truing much easier afterwards - there's something about building wheels from scratch that "trains" the brain to "know" how much to turn/what to turn.

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