New GP4000S II out now

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Ross
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New GP4000S II out now

Postby Ross » Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:38 pm

New version of Continental GP4000S II is out now. Not sure exactly what's different but there are more sizes available (650 x 23C and also 700 x 20C as well as 700 x 28C). The 700 x 25C and 28C are available with and without the reflective Reflex sidewall band, dissapointing IMO that this option isnt available for the 23C version.

'Transparent is another 'colour' option, not sure who would want that, doesn't seem very practical, as we know with lighter colours like white and yellow that look brown after a couple of rides.

Price appears to be a fair bit dearer than the 'old' original GP4000S - $37.99 vs $49.90 (Cycling Express)

http://www.conti-online.com/www/bicycle ... 00SII.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: New GP4000S II out now

Postby Boognoss » Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:25 pm

Great, now I have to throw out the spare four GP4000S tyres I have and buy these new shinier ones. I like the idea of the colours. :lol: :lol:
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Re: New GP4000S II out now

Postby lobstermash » Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:45 pm

I'll happily 'dispose' of them for you...
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Re: New GP4000S II out now

Postby Boognoss » Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:53 pm

Maybe I'll hold on to them for a while longer. Just in case ;-)
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Re: New GP4000S II out now

Postby CXCommuter » Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:37 pm

Interesting how the coloured and transparent versions are 10g heavier than the black on black- how can taking something away (transparent) make it heavier?
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Re: New GP4000S II out now

Postby Aushiker » Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:41 pm

Thanks for the heads-up. 28 mm sounds appealing.

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Re: New GP4000S II out now

Postby Xplora » Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:21 pm

CXCommuter wrote:Interesting how the coloured and transparent versions are 10g heavier than the black on black- how can taking something away (transparent) make it heavier?
They are adding a strip of coloured rubber and this extra weight must be the bonding agents? Impressive that it's only 10g. I doubt the black tyres are coloured that way, I'm guessing it's not to obey The Rules :D

Part of me goes "colours awesome bro" but when you are giving away 20g, it just seems a lot less appealing :oops:

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Re: New GP4000S II out now

Postby Duck! » Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:37 pm

Interesting that they've reintroduced the colours, 'cos when the 4000S replaced the original 4000, it was only offered in black because the coloured pigments reduced the grip offered by the rubber compound.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: New GP4000S II out now

Postby Aushiker » Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:41 pm

Duck! wrote:Interesting that they've reintroduced the colours, 'cos when the 4000S replaced the original 4000, it was only offered in black because the coloured pigments reduced the grip offered by the rubber compound.
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I suspect grip is not an issue in the sidewall :)

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Re: New GP4000S II out now

Postby mitchy_ » Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:54 pm

Aushiker wrote:I suspect grip is not an issue in the sidewall :)

Andrew
and if it is, you're doing something wrong!

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Re: New GP4000S II out now

Postby QuangVuong » Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:47 pm

Someone's finally remaking skinwalls in 20c widths! Now only if it were cheaper.
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Re: New GP4000S II out now

Postby gabrielle260 » Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:13 pm

I love the 25's but there is so little clearance on either of my road bikes that there is no way the 28's would fit... A real shame as I would love to try them!

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Re: New GP4000S II out now

Postby Blakeylonger » Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:09 am

Careful, these measure really wide. The 25 can get to 28 on a 23mm rim. Should be great.

Why would you ever want a 20c tyre unless you're trying to set a record on a track? Just dumb.

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Re: New GP4000S II out now

Postby warthog1 » Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:26 pm

Blakeylonger wrote:Careful, these measure really wide. The 25 can get to 28 on a 23mm rim. Should be great.

Why would you ever want a 20c tyre unless you're trying to set a record on a track? Just dumb.
-Narrow rim on the front.
-TT bike.
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Re: New GP4000S II out now

Postby Blakeylonger » Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:17 pm

warthog1 wrote:
Blakeylonger wrote:Careful, these measure really wide. The 25 can get to 28 on a 23mm rim. Should be great.

Why would you ever want a 20c tyre unless you're trying to set a record on a track? Just dumb.
-Narrow rim on the front.
-TT bike.
-19mm rims have no problems with tyres over 35mm.
-The majority of the pro peleton are now on 25mm tubs. For aero reasons.

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Re: New GP4000S II out now

Postby warthog1 » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:14 pm

Blakeylonger wrote:
warthog1 wrote:
Blakeylonger wrote:Careful, these measure really wide. The 25 can get to 28 on a 23mm rim. Should be great.

Why would you ever want a 20c tyre unless you're trying to set a record on a track? Just dumb.
-Narrow rim on the front.
-TT bike.
-19mm rims have no problems with tyres over 35mm.
-The majority of the pro peleton are now on 25mm tubs. For aero reasons.
Some of the peleton are on 25's. Many are still on 23's.
Zipps, to use an example of a wide aero rim have designed their wheels around 23 mm tyres and have stated the aero drag of a 25 more than cancels the small rolling resistance improvement.
I have some older significantly narrower rims and will possibly try a 20 on the front.


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Re: New GP4000S II out now

Postby Duck! » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:19 pm

Skinny tyres are also sometimes used by gear-limited age-groupers to sneak inside the roll-out limit.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: New GP4000S II out now

Postby Blakeylonger » Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:13 pm

warthog1 wrote: Some of the peleton are on 25's. Many are still on 23's. [Citation needed]

Zipps, to use an example of a wide aero rim have designed their wheels around 23 mm tyres and have stated the aero drag of a 25 more than cancels the small rolling resistance improvement.

I have some older significantly narrower rims and will possibly try a 20 on the front.


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The round up at the 2014 tdu showed that most were on 25mm tyres. Unless you have evidence to the contrary?

Zipp have designed around a 23, doesn't really support the argument for a 20.

What is the internal width of your rims that stops you from running a 23/25?

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New GP4000S II out now

Postby warthog1 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:04 am

I haven't seen evidence that they were on 25s.
Drapac were on 23 given others use zipp I imagine they were on 23.
23s being the tyre which the firecrest rim was designed for doesn't support that 25s are always faster. It also lends weight to the theory a narrower tyre will run faster on a narrower rim than a fatter tyre on the same rim.


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Re: New GP4000S II out now

Postby eeksll » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:25 pm

FYI my 5600 series 105 brakes won't accept a 28c schwalbe durano s tyre. half the wheel just nudges the brake (and frame).

They DO accept a used 28c vittoria zaffiro. There is still a little room, so they might accept a new new 28c vittoria zaffiro.

bike is a azzurri milano and wheels are pro-lite comos. A different frame might allow the brake to take the durano s if its brake caliper bolt was a smidge higher (then the brake shoes would be mounted a smidge lower.

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Re: New GP4000S II out now

Postby Blakeylonger » Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:11 pm

warthog1 wrote:I haven't seen evidence that they were on 25s.
Drapac were on 23 given others use zipp I imagine they were on 23.
23s being the tyre which the firecrest rim was designed for doesn't support that 25s are always faster.
Your statements and assumptions are repeatedly wrong.

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/01/2014- ... ur-part-1/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/01/2014- ... ur-part-2/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tyre widths aren't given, (and sidewall numbers can vary both ways from reality, even before you take internal rim width into account), but there are more teams on wide (>19mm external) rimmed setups than not, and a statement from the author that most teams were rolling on 25mm.

Shimano 7
Campy 4
Zipp 3
Mavic 2
Fulcrum 2
Vision 1
Corima 1
Bontrager 1

I never said 25mm was always faster, I said that Zipp designing their rim shape for a 23mm tyre is a pretty poor arguement for a 20mm tyre, otherwise they would still be using their pre-firecrest design that was best paired with a 20/21mm tyre. And unless the marketers are lying to us (quelle suprise!), the current wheels are faster than the previous design.

By all means enjoy your 20mm tyres on this unicorn of a rim that's so much narrower than 15mm internal, but if your frame can accept the 23 or 25, you'll be much happier on it.
eeksll wrote:FYI my 5600 series 105 brakes won't accept a 28c schwalbe durano s tyre. half the wheel just nudges the brake (and frame).
Smart frame designers will max out the caliper reach. A short reach brake can take a 28-30mm with no problems if you place and angle it right. Even more if it's a single pivot.

Here's a Cervelo R3Mud, with a DA caliper and an FMB 27mm tub with plenty of room to spare:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/pho ... mud/260733" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: New GP4000S II out now

Postby eeksll » Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:49 pm

eeksll wrote: eeksll wrote:
FYI my 5600 series 105 brakes won't accept a 28c schwalbe durano s tyre. half the wheel just nudges the brake (and frame).


Smart frame designers will max out the caliper reach. A short reach brake can take a 28-30mm with no problems if you place and angle it right. Even more if it's a single pivot.

Here's a Cervelo R3Mud, with a DA caliper and an FMB 27mm tub with plenty of room to spare:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/pho" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... mud/260733
thats alot of extra room. It also looks like those dura ace brake shoes have much more vertical adjustments. The calipers I have (105 - 5600) don't have that sort of height adjustment.

My original message was just a warning that 28c tyres may not fit in your frame, even if another brands 28c tyres do fit.

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New GP4000S II out now

Postby toolonglegs » Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:16 pm

20mm clinchers... Maybe for triathletes on skinny rims. Not much cornering and smooth roads.
I run a 19mm quite happily on my 88mm front... Although it is a tub on a TT bike, just like all though TDU bikes were on tubs ( at least 3 teams I know where running 22/23's)... I doubt any run clinchers.
The 28mm looks like a nice choice for the cobbles this year if it will fit in my frame... If not I can put it on the CX bike.

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Re: New GP4000S II out now

Postby Blakeylonger » Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:21 pm

eeksll wrote:thats alot of extra room. It also looks like those dura ace brake shoes have much more vertical adjustments. The calipers I have (105 - 5600) don't have that sort of height adjustment.

My original message was just a warning that 28c tyres may not fit in your frame, even if another brands 28c tyres do fit.
Nope:
DA 9000: 39-49mm
105 5600: 39-49mm

I agree, when I first commented waaay up there I was cautioning that these tyres run larger than stated. Which is different to almost every tyre ever. I had some vintage specialized tyres that said 28mm and measured around 21mm on a good day. Lightest 28mm tyres I've ever seen...

If you want to 'medium-reach' out your short reach high end calipers to get 32mm tyres in them, you'll need to try and find some of the trick Kona Red Zone offset cartridges: (But the BR-R600/R650 are already pretty nice, shame the QR doesn't open up enough to clear fat rubber. The Tektro medium reach series do.)

(link coz giant image)
http://c2971522.r22.cf0.rackcdn.com/aAk ... MhQ6pU.JPG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

@TLL: With certain exceptions (eg Tony Martin winning the 2011 TT worlds), yes, all tubs all the time for pros. My point was that 25mm tyre widths are more common than not in the pro peloton. (And that 20mm tyres are stupid outside of record attempts on the track)

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Re: New GP4000S II out now

Postby jimsheedy » Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:22 pm

I wonder if they'll last longer than 1000 km ?
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