Help with Indoor trainer deliberations
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Help with Indoor trainer deliberations
Postby AndyRevill » Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:46 pm
I ride for fitness and fun and don't race but I've been getting a bit fed up of my routine constantly being interrupted. I'll get a few weeks where I can ride 4-5 days and then I get busy with work or running kids around, not to mention the Tassie weather and end up not riding much for a few weeks so I feel like I go backwards and end up where I started. I've decided to invest in an indoor trainer so at least I can get an hour or so in when things conspire against me. After a lot of searching on here and around the web I've pretty much landed at the Kurt Kinetic road machine paired with TrainerRoad - my personal spin class
Seems this is about the sweet spot in terms of quality and price for someone like me. However, one thing nagging at me is do I need to factor in a spare wheel and trainer tyre (or getting through my road tyre a lot quicker)? I've seen a lot of conflicting views so I'm hoping there are enough users on here that I might be able to come to some decision. If I do need to include that in the costing then I'm starting to get close to the cost of the Lemond revolution, which a lot of people also seem to like (noise aside).
So, votes yay or nay on needing the extra wheel+tyre?
Thanks, Andy
Trek Domane 4.5
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Re: Help with Indoor trainer deliberations
Postby moosterbounce » Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:42 pm
If you go this route though, be wary of the wheel and frame and tyre. Initially, I used a road bike which was fine. Then moved the wheel to a tt bike which was also fine but only with a conti trainer tyre. When I replaced that with a Tacx trainer tyre, it rubbed on the aero frame due to the wheel being slightly out of true. Showed the tacxbtyre was thicker than the conti.
I can't speak for the lemond tho.
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Re: Help with Indoor trainer deliberations
Postby Xplora » Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:04 pm
I've got the Road Machine, it's very good but I'm actually looking to go to rollers right now - you don't get any practice on balancing or handling the bike on the trainer, and you don't chew tyres the same way. You can do trainerroad with the Sportcrafter variable resistance rollers and a few other options out there. If you want to zone out, you can use a front wheel bracket to make the handling a nonissue. Price is a bit cheaper.
Lots of people really dislike trainers because they are boring, but like rollers. You won't fall off a trainer though
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Re: Help with Indoor trainer deliberations
Postby AndyRevill » Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:59 pm
Hadn't really thought about rollers until now - didn't realise you could get variable resistance ones and they work with TR - life just got more complicated!Xplora wrote:Factor in murdering a tyre if you're using it a lot. Spare wheel is pretty much free. Should be able to rustle it up without much stress.
I've got the Road Machine, it's very good but I'm actually looking to go to rollers right now - you don't get any practice on balancing or handling the bike on the trainer, and you don't chew tyres the same way. You can do trainerroad with the Sportcrafter variable resistance rollers and a few other options out there. If you want to zone out, you can use a front wheel bracket to make the handling a nonissue. Price is a bit cheaper.
Lots of people really dislike trainers because they are boring, but like rollers. You won't fall off a trainer though
Does having parabolic rollers make much of a difference to not falling off? I've had a quick look to see if I could gauge what type of workout I might get. The power curves suggest the KK can go through the roof if you're strong enough, which is not me. Looking at the power at 25mph (40kmh) the KK = 400W, the Sportcrafters = 300W and the Elite mag rollers = 300 - 550W depending on which setting you're on. Suggests the Elite might be worth a look?
Thanks, Andy
Trek Domane 4.5
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Re: Help with Indoor trainer deliberations
Postby Xplora » Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:22 pm
I've seen a graph showing the Sportcrafter resistance rollers at 800W. You will probably max out around 600W if you aren't sprinting - 600W is out of the saddle pushing strong, without ripping the handlebars off and losing traction on the front. "I" would not consider the difference in power to the Road Machine to be worth worrying about. Rollers requires a lot more control and care than a trainer, you'll get less drama trying to pedal hard with rollers (I am guessing) because you'll fall off. Trainer, you want epic resistance because you are spinning without moving and you can apply more force. This isn't always a good thing like I mentioned - no point being fast without controlling the bike.
Mag resistance is a bit different, it's a flat reduction in your speed, it works differently to the variable resistance of the Sportcrafter rollers or the fluid resistance of the KK or other fluid trainers. There is more to it than this, but the cork sniffer should be satisfied with the Sportcrafter solution.
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Re: Help with Indoor trainer deliberations
Postby Xplora » Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:44 pm
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Re: Help with Indoor trainer deliberations
Postby AndyRevill » Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:53 am
Might be can you PM me with details?Xplora wrote:Decided to put my trainer on the market, if you're keen Andy. Trainer and a Bontrager wheel to match the Domane
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Re: Help with Indoor trainer deliberations
Postby AndyRevill » Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:57 am
Should have looked in the FS section firstAndyRevill wrote:Might be can you PM me with details?Xplora wrote:Decided to put my trainer on the market, if you're keen Andy. Trainer and a Bontrager wheel to match the Domane
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Re: Help with Indoor trainer deliberations
Postby Xplora » Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:32 pm
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Re: Help with Indoor trainer deliberations
Postby SuperSix » Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:42 pm
It also has a polymer roller which really does seem to aid tyre life. I've been on it about 3 or 4 times a week for six weeks and the tyre still looks new. You can still see the seam down the centre of it.
I did get another wheel for it but it probably wasn't necessary.
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Re: Help with Indoor trainer deliberations
Postby anthcon » Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:13 pm
what sort of money is a trainer and training tyre/spare wheel goint to cost all up approx.???,,,,AndyRevill wrote:Hi all,
I ride for fitness and fun and don't race but I've been getting a bit fed up of my routine constantly being interrupted. I'll get a few weeks where I can ride 4-5 days and then I get busy with work or running kids around, not to mention the Tassie weather and end up not riding much for a few weeks so I feel like I go backwards and end up where I started. I've decided to invest in an indoor trainer so at least I can get an hour or so in when things conspire against me. After a lot of searching on here and around the web I've pretty much landed at the Kurt Kinetic road machine paired with TrainerRoad - my personal spin class
Seems this is about the sweet spot in terms of quality and price for someone like me. However, one thing nagging at me is do I need to factor in a spare wheel and trainer tyre (or getting through my road tyre a lot quicker)? I've seen a lot of conflicting views so I'm hoping there are enough users on here that I might be able to come to some decision. If I do need to include that in the costing then I'm starting to get close to the cost of the Lemond revolution, which a lot of people also seem to like (noise aside).
So, votes yay or nay on needing the extra wheel+tyre?
Thanks, Andy
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Re: Help with Indoor trainer deliberations
Postby Phil » Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:52 pm
I use the Stages powermeter on my Domane, and the Bushido power and cadence are pretty consistent with that.
Decent review on DCRAINMAKER.
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Re: Help with Indoor trainer deliberations
Postby AndyRevill » Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:26 pm
The best I've seen for the KK road machine in Australia is $499. Spare wheel/tyre not sure, if you have an old tyre kicking around that helps. There are cheaper trainers but the KK has really good reports.anthcon wrote:
what sort of money is a trainer and training tyre/spare wheel goint to cost all up approx.???,,,,
If you want to use up half your life there is a mass of info around the web
Andy
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Re: Help with Indoor trainer deliberations
Postby anthcon » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:25 pm
Value for money at around $6?? I would think. Might be better systems but also twice the price
http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2012/12/bkoo ... eview.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Help with Indoor trainer deliberations
Postby Xplora » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:47 pm
I'm very pleased with my Road Machine/power meter combo. If you can't afford a power meter, just get the trainer and put the extra 200 in the bank to save up for the power meter. Kickr and such toys are for rich people who can afford a Quarq AND the trainer.
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Re: Help with Indoor trainer deliberations
Postby jpw5 » Sun Jul 13, 2014 4:52 pm
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Re: Help with Indoor trainer deliberations
Postby djw47 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:03 pm
+1 for the Jetblack z1, I've had one for 3 years, used extensively in the winter, up to 100km a week sometimes and never worn out a tyre. Make sure you use the slickest tyres you can though to reduce the noise.SuperSix wrote:If your looking for high resistance have a look at the Jetblack z1 or dynometer trainers. I have the z1 and it has pretty high resistance and even more when cold.
It also has a polymer roller which really does seem to aid tyre life. I've been on it about 3 or 4 times a week for six weeks and the tyre still looks new. You can still see the seam down the centre of it.
I did get another wheel for it but it probably wasn't necessary.
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Re: Help with Indoor trainer deliberations
Postby jacks1071 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:57 pm
How much tension do you put on the roller? I'm pretty sure Kurt specify to do 3x full turns once the resistance unit touches the tyre.Xplora wrote:Factor in murdering a tyre if you're using it a lot. Spare wheel is pretty much free. Should be able to rustle it up without much stress.
I've got the Road Machine, it's very good but I'm actually looking to go to rollers right now - you don't get any practice on balancing or handling the bike on the trainer, and you don't chew tyres the same way. You can do trainerroad with the Sportcrafter variable resistance rollers and a few other options out there. If you want to zone out, you can use a front wheel bracket to make the handling a nonissue. Price is a bit cheaper.
Lots of people really dislike trainers because they are boring, but like rollers. You won't fall off a trainer though
I'd imagine that too much or too little tension or low pressure in the tyre could all cause premature wear. A few years ago I put over 100 hours on my KK within 6-months on the same tyre I was road riding and it didn't wear out any quicker than using it on the road.
Some trainers have a rough finish on the roller and those ones burn tyres up - typically they are the cheap and nasty trainers though.
For 99% of the population a spare wheel would be a waste, just use your everyday wheel and tyre - but if you have a busted spare wheel that isn't good enough to road ride anymore then why not? In which case - use up your old tyres with cuts in them etc to finish them off.
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Re: Help with Indoor trainer deliberations
Postby Xplora » Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:14 am
If someone is using dedicated race wheels and race tyres, I don't think it's a worthwhile risk to knowingly chew them because they are SO EXPENSIVE and SO SOFT. Whatever makes them great for racing means they can't handle the trainer abuse. That's OK. God has given us spare rear tyres and commuter wheels to resolve this problem, and if you can afford a second set of wheels for racing then you can afford to have a trainer wheel... a crappy wheel and crap tyre might be 60-80 bucks, while the nice tyre would be 50-60 bucks. Easy maths for me. I can afford power meters but can't afford to waste cash on consumables ruining my nice tyres. I know I had to clean off a little bit of tyre muck before boxing up my KK to send it to AndyR... considering how much use the trainer got, that's a lot of rubber to my mind. It's a babysmooth roller on the KK, but physics is like that. Ultrasports are junky tyres though!
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