Shimano BR-5710 Direct Mount Rear Brakes

[cjrich]

Hi all.

Been looking at some endurance bikes lately for possible upgrade. Very interested in the Scott Solace 20 but I don't know much about the Shimano BR-5710 rear brake setup it comes with. Anyone had any experience with these brakes that mount under the bottom bracket? I'm concerned they will get very dirty and pickup lube from the chain.

Other bikes I will look at are the Trek Domane 5.2 and Cannondale Synapse Ultegra.

Thanks

[Duck!]

If you clean & lube the chain properly you won't get pickup from it in the brakes....

You might get a bit more crud flicked up from the front wheel, but not much more than you get in a regular mounting position.

[singlespeedscott]

It will collect crap. Worst position ever for a brake, especially for a bike that's intended for endurance riding in all conditions. Without regular maintenance it will turned into a rusty, gummed up mess wether it's from the chain or crud flicked up from the road and the tyres. MTB's tried it 25 years ago and it was a crap idea then.

[jcjordan]

Singlespeedscott I don't think know you have much experience with these breaks on road bikes. Firstly the wheel is travelling in the wrong direction to flick any crap up into the brake. I have been working on bikes with the breaks in this position and in every case, they are fine with no more crude build up. Actually most get less build up then those in the more traditional position.

As for the tuning of the breaks you won't have a problem as it's exactly the same as all other Shimano brakes.

[Duck!]

You shouldn't be riding a bike with breaks, you're likely to get hurt.

Brakes on the other hand.....

[jcjordan]

Stung by auto correct on my pad again. Thanks Duck

[justalf]

Never, ever try anything new, unless you want to learn something.
Like Singlespeedscott, I do actually remember having an understay mounted u-brake on my MTB about 25 years ago. A Specialized Rockhopper. It was an awesomely powerful brake. Worked flawlessly in any conditions except for the few times when the chain would actually bounce up and get stuck in it. With some tweaks it happened less. It did crud up but everything does eventually. On a road bike that should be less of a problem. It does make the bike look a little sleeker and it is a stronger part of the frame so you might get better stopping power, maybe.

[singlespeedscott]

You don't need more rear braking power on a road bike.

I run Campagnolo differential rear brakes and the single pivot brake on the rear is more then enough. Tuesday saw me doing 4000m of repeats on one of the harder road climbs in SEQ. I rarely touched my rear brake on the 70kmhr to 30kmhr switch back turns. If you need more rear brake them that you really need to think about your braking technique. The brake under the bottom bracket is all about the look and marketing. Nothing more. It's and answer to a question that nobody asked. A bit like integrated seatposts. They'll be all the rage for a couple of years then all of a sudden they'll be dropped from production.

[cjrich]

I also see that Trek are using them on there 5 to 7 series Madone bikes.

[mitchy_]

cycling has to be the only sport where people bitch and moan about having too much brake.
maybe it's my background in high powered cars, but give me as much brake as you can, and some more. you can never have too much...

i personally love the direct mount brake under the stays. the look 695 with it's hidden front and rear brakes is a thing of beauty.

[singlespeedscott]

Being from a Motorsport back ground you should no that the rear does very little of the actual braking.

[mitchy_]

Being from a Motorsport back ground you should no that the rear does very little of the actual braking.

less than the front, yes. doesn't change my point.

[HAKS]

I have BB mounted brakes on my Trek Madone. Have found over the course of a year they are no more dirtier then normal seat stay mounted brakes.

[rearviewmirror]

You don't need more rear braking power on a road bike.

I run Campagnolo differential rear brakes and the single pivot brake on the rear is more then enough. Tuesday saw me doing 4000m of repeats on one of the harder road climbs in SEQ. I rarely touched my rear brake on the 70kmhr to 30kmhr switch back turns. If you need more rear brake them that you really need to think about your braking technique. The brake under the bottom bracket is all about the look and marketing. Nothing more. It's and answer to a question that nobody asked. A bit like integrated seatposts. They'll be all the rage for a couple of years then all of a sudden they'll be dropped from production.

Such confidence, you post as if what you say is technically correct. But it's all opinion backed up with little experience and no facts.

[singlespeedscott]

You don't need more rear braking power on a road bike.

I run Campagnolo differential rear brakes and the single pivot brake on the rear is more then enough. Tuesday saw me doing 4000m of repeats on one of the harder road climbs in SEQ. I rarely touched my rear brake on the 70kmhr to 30kmhr switch back turns. If you need more rear brake them that you really need to think about your braking technique. The brake under the bottom bracket is all about the look and marketing. Nothing more. It's and answer to a question that nobody asked. A bit like integrated seatposts. They'll be all the rage for a couple of years then all of a sudden they'll be dropped from production.

Such confidence, you post as if what you say is technically correct. But it's all opinion backed up with little experience and no facts.

How do you come to this conclusion?

[rkelsen]

cycling has to be the only sport where people bitch and moan about having too much brake.

So you've never had a fishtail skid? Consider yourself lucky. It is a horrible experience, because you lose control and in most circumstances cannot regain it. The bike becomes violent and can throw you off pretty hard.

People who compare car brakes with bike brakes make me laugh. The dynamics could not be more different.

"The fastest that you can stop any bike of normal wheelbase is to apply the front brake so hard that the rear wheel is just about to lift off the ground. In this situation, the rear wheel cannot contribute to stopping power, since it has no traction.": http://sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html

[mitchy_]

cycling has to be the only sport where people bitch and moan about having too much brake.

So you've never had a fishtail skid? Consider yourself lucky. It is a horrible experience, because you lose control and in most circumstances cannot regain it. The bike becomes violent and can throw you off pretty hard.

People who compare car brakes with bike brakes make me laugh. The dynamics could not be more different.

"The fastest that you can stop any bike of normal wheelbase is to apply the front brake so hard that the rear wheel is just about to lift off the ground. In this situation, the rear wheel cannot contribute to stopping power, since it has no traction.": http://sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html

if you read my post correctly, i'm not comparing the brakes. all i'm saying is i'd rather have too much brake and not need it, then the other way around.

[rkelsen]

if you read my post correctly, i'm not comparing the brakes. all i'm saying is i'd rather have too much brake and not need it, then the other way around.

And if you'd read my post correctly, you would have noticed that I'm saying "too much brake" on a bicycle will usually make a bad situation worse. The quote by Sheldon Brown really says it all.

Conversely to cars & motorbikes where more brake is always better, and you can never really have too much.

[cyclotaur]

.....all i'm saying is i'd rather have too much brake and not need it, then the other way around.

.........I'm saying "too much brake" on a bicycle will usually make a bad situation worse. The quote by Sheldon Brown really says it all.

Conversely to cars & motorbikes where more brake is always better, and you can never really have too much.

I'm currently riding a rented Scott Solace 20 with the BB mounted Tektro brake - it hardly works at all and is pretty filthy, probably more a reflection on the hire company than anything, but I reckon that area picks up all the spray from the front wheel rather than muck from the rear.

On the Scott they placed the brake there to maximise the compliance via the seat stays rather than for aero or any other reason. It makes for a great ride but not sure about the brake per se. I know there is a disc version as well, which brings a bunch of other issues to bear.

On a related issue, and bearing in mind I agree with rkelsen here, I don't think the current drive for discs on road race bikes is warranted on the basis of providing increased braking power alone, and I think they might cause some problems in the wet if wheels lock in the bunch. It's no good being able to stop wheels turning if the contact between tyre and tarmac gives way.

What motor vehicles have that bikes don't are anti-lock systems like ETS/ABS etc...

[RonK]

Can't understand why you lot are arguing about a caliper brake.

Surely you have been told caliper brakes are no good and you must have disc brakes.

[Dreams V Reallity]

Motorbikes went form Drum to Disk, slowly, with much discussion, argument, and rejoicing. Some still use drum rears. It started in the '70's, and wasn't wholly universal until the '80's.
Now the point of contention is ABS. Some love it, others bemoan about the 'lack of skill' this will bring about.

My point? Don't know. But if you want to have a discussion, do it without the 'attitude'. Thank you.

Personally, I would like to ride 2 (or3, or more) bikes with the same spec's, but fitted with different brakes. That would be 'scientific' and enlightening.

[Dreams V Reallity]

Fishtailing. Love it. Shows good bike control. If it causes you to crash, you just need more experience!

"When I was a boy..." One day ride to a park, whilst having 'lunch', we decided to downhill the grassy slope. The only bike that could was the single gear/freewheeler. Got a good work out that day, and made some awesome skids in the grass!!!