Help with Tyre choice please :)

[WITHND]

Hi all,

I have a Jamis Xenith Race bike and it came with 23mm Vittoria Zaffiro Pro Slick Tyres on Mavic Aksium Race wheels.

I have done about 1000km in 3mths including 5wks off the bike when had an injury.

My question is in the dirty and wet weather I have just had my first puncture and on review / cleaning the bike and tyres I can visibly see nuerous other cuts small indents in the rubber, I want to know what would be a good alternative tyre that performs as well as these however might be a little more puncture resistant as I think these two are just about cooked after my 100km on Saturday...

Also not sure that it matters I ride them about between 110PSI and 120PSI depending if dry or wet slightly lower in the wet...

Any help or suggestions are very welcome

Cheers in advance

[jacks1071]

How heavy are you?

The Zaffiro's are right up there durability wise, the only real issue with them is that they are lethal in the wet.

[march83]

tyres are going to get cuts and slashes, it just happens. everything will flat eventually. there are very few tyres out there that have unreasonably low levels of puncture protection (race only and track specific tyres come to mind) and many that imho offer too much puncture protection to their own detriment (compromising weight, ride and grip).

my philosophy is to ride something that strikes a balance between not too expensive (so you can stomach throwing them out when they get slashed) and riding nicely (no point riding horrible, heavy rubber if you don't have to). then you just accept the flats as bad luck when they come.

based on this criteria, i run veloflex masters - less than $50 a pop, lovely feel, good enough in the wet and i've only actually managed to flat them once in 6 months. I've had similar good results with conti gp4000s, gp4 seasons and vittoria corsa cx but there are many others that fall into this price range that you could look into (mich pro4, schwalbe ultremos, etc). I've never had an unreasonable amount of flats on any of the more "race" oriented tyres i've run, but i've certainly enjoyed their better ride and lower weight.

as for pressures, 100+ is fine for a ~20mm rim. wider runs softer - i run my 23mm wide rims at about 80psi.

[rodneycc]

I'm riding Conti Gp4000s II's and GP4 Seasons both in 25mm at the moment and are finding them really good. No punctures, grippy in the wet and a really comfy ride, I'll probably change the GP 4 Seasons off the back for another GP4000s II in summer but I'm finding it really good in winter with the wet weather and the crap/debris all over the road and bike paths at the moment.

[WITHND]

Thanks Jacks,

The tack that flatted me went straight through and was easy to remove however there are numerous cuts small tears or holes that small stones etc have been embedded into thwe tyre that go through to the tube, I removed 3 or 4 that were only just visible I needed to let the air down and use tweazers to get them out, my riding budy suggested if I keep using them I am likely to flat often and better to replace with something better than the ones that came with the bike...

Also thanks March thats what I am trying to figure out, how good or bad are the tyres I am already using and should I just replace with the same or if there is more durable with the same or better performance I would pay extra $ fot them...

I await further responses, maybe I should have done a poll who uses what for winter road biking where wet conditions are going to be encountered

Thanks for replying / feedback I am pretty new to this and have a lot to learn...

[WITHND]

Thannks Rodney too

[rodneycc]

PS - You only need to run 90-95psi with the 25mms also which I think is great.

[reefer]

I am running Schwalbe Marathon Plus in 25C as I was frustrated by continual punctures.
They are a little harsh and I don’t really corner in them over 20km/hr (that just me being conservative, I like my skin).

They are pretty well the best “puncture resistant” tyres you can get. In saying that, I was only able to manage 5 weeks before I punctured them. A Staple went right through the centre of the tyre and both sides of the tube and I was not even in an industrial area. I have noticed that they don’t tend to cut up, I guess due to their tread type and depth and they seem to be made of quite tough rubber (i.e. the moulding leftover bits are still on after 750km).

I am 89kg and run the tyres at 85psi. At their maximum psi, I find them quite harsh.

They are also quite expensive.

[Bentnose]

I've been commuting on the Continental GP4seasons 28mm all winter, seems to be raining a lot this year and have found them grippy in the wet and apart from some rim tape issues only had a puncture from a tack on the Yarra Blvd (but that is another issue). They don't seem to be cutting up and I have ran over a fair bit of glass with no issues so far; touch wood.

[lobstermash]

I'm a fan of Maxxis Refuse. They're very tough, cheap and ride OK. As part of my weekly/fortnightly maintenance on my main commuter roadie I pick the stone and glass etc out of my tyres. Cuts don't usually make a difference to the puncture resistance of the tyre unless they've gotten through the belt. Even with a cut through the belt, it's pretty unlikely to get a puncture through the same tiny hole in the belt next time around. If you want peace of mind on these holes, you can cut out a little piece of PET (soft drink bottle) plastic and sticky tape it to the inside of the tyre.

Tips others have given above, such as running wider tyres and lowering the pressure a little, can help reduce the risk. However, even with tough (pneumatic) tyres, you still get the odd puncture from time to time.

[Storm Boy]

I also use the Maxxix ReFuse for commuting, rain and shine.

The tyres are pretty puncture resistant, grip in the wet has not been an issue. They do seem to get a fair few cuts but it doesn't seem to increase the number of punctures. My rear tyre is currently just through to the casing after around 3000 km, I am 95 kg and run the rear at around 120 PSI. I'm pretty happy with them and looking at buying more as they are pretty good as well as pretty cheap, around $50 per pair of folding tyres on Ebay.

Regards,

SB

[MattyP]

On my commuter I've done over 500km on 25mm Schwable Durano Plus in the past month, including a wet, cold & cobbled Melburn Roobaix. No punctures & I find them a bit more comfortable than my prior tyres. In saying that my prior tyres were 23mm Vredestein Fortezza Tricomp's which I was very happy with & have used for ages for thousands of kms, but just couldn't source in 25mm.

I have 23mm Vittoria Rubino Pro Slick's on my (new) Jamis roadie & they've given me 200km of initial trouble free riding. I'll likely replace them with Vredestein Fortezza Tricomp's when they wear out. 23mm or 25mm will be the big decision....

Regularly checking the tyres for embedded glass/metal can aid in puncture prevention.

[jacks1071]

Thanks Jacks,

The tack that flatted me went straight through and was easy to remove however there are numerous cuts small tears or holes that small stones etc have been embedded into thwe tyre that go through to the tube, I removed 3 or 4 that were only just visible I needed to let the air down and use tweazers to get them out, my riding budy suggested if I keep using them I am likely to flat often and better to replace with something better than the ones that came with the bike...

Also thanks March thats what I am trying to figure out, how good or bad are the tyres I am already using and should I just replace with the same or if there is more durable with the same or better performance I would pay extra $ fot them...

I await further responses, maybe I should have done a poll who uses what for winter road biking where wet conditions are going to be encountered

Thanks for replying / feedback I am pretty new to this and have a lot to learn...

Pin holes through the tyre carcass are okay - its only if you have cuts all the way through so the tube can pop out like a hernia that you definitely need to replace the tyre.

If you are frugal, you can use "shoe goo" to seal up the cuts just to prevent debris from getting into the cuts and working its way through.

In general terms the more you spend on tyres the less durable they are as they become more performance orientated.

You might like something like Contintental Gatorskin (Hardshell version if you can get them).

I'm not sure how heavy you are but over inflating the tyres makes them much more puncture prone.

[WITHND]

Thanks Jacks I am 181cm and weigh 75kg so yeah maybe I am over inflating them running them at 110 to 120 psi (lower end 110 in wet and closer to 120 when dry)

[usernameforme]

The Zaffiro tyres are right up there in terms of low cost and high milleage. When they wear out it sounds like it might be worth trying the Zaffiro or Rubino pro tech (if you want to stick with Vittoria). The pro-tech tyres are designed more for rubbish roads so you can expect less cuts from them. If you're willing to run a set of tyres for winter I'd recommend these as your "winter" tyres.

With spring/summer approaching I'd probably try using the regular/slick Zaffiro/Rubino. They'd have slightly less rolling resistance but a bit more prone to cuts.

At your weight I'd say 110 for wet and 120 dry would be spot on for 23mm tyres. If your tyres are wider (25mm) you can drop this by around 10psi. As my general rule of thumb, the tyres should deform slightly when you're riding... eg when riding look at your rear tyre, if it's got a slight bulge I'd say they're inflated just right. If there is no buldge it's too hard and if the bulge is too major I'd put more air in.

Vittoria do have an "iTire" pressure app - which gives you recommendations for tyre pressure I plugged your numbers in and it recommends 100psi... I'd recommend playing with your tyre pressure a little, between 95 and 120psi in about 5psi increments and see which pressure you like the best. I'd go for the most comfortable ride which doesn't feel sluggish.

If you're feeling curious with other manufacturors Continental GP4 seasons or Gatorskins are great for commuting. I personally don't rate Maxxis Refuse tyres but they are very durable - I've run sets down to the casing without extra punctures. I just dislike the "sluggish" feel of them.

Personally, for me, Vittoria Rubino Pro 3 tyres strike the balance of fast rolling, price and durability. These tyres would be slightly faster than your Zaffiro tyres, but would cut more easily. If I want out and out durability I'd go for the Gatorskins. I've never used the GP4 seasons, but I'd imagine that it would strike the balance between these two tyres. Tyres are a VERY personal choice, you've got to decide what you want. There's three main criteria, rolling resistance, price and durability. I'd pick the two that are most important to you.

[WITHND]

Thanks username still a little confused with the PSI so Amy different opinions, may have just been a rubbish day and the luck was against me given first flat in 1000km and I'm very newb / green maybe I just suck it up and overlook the small tears and rocks I picked out of them and cross my fingers and see what happens if I don't replace them....

I would love to feel faster when the weather gets better later in the year however still going to keep the tubes for now...

[Homo Suburbiensis]

http://www.biketinker.com/wp-content/up ... raph_2.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Note:weights are for total i.e. bike+body weight. 45/55 distribution front and back. I think you should lower your pressures just a bit.

[softy]

This is a question with many answers,

It is basically a trade off, concrete tyres with good punture pretection or at the other end of the scale, lightweight cotton or silk tyres. And of course ever thing inbetween.

If I was you I would try some of each, give the high end veloflex a go (with latex tubes if your really keen) and then try some gatorskins. If you are okay with gators, stick with them as they are supposed to be tough.

Personally I can't ride the concrete tyres, for me riding is the enjoyment, why ride tyres that are horrid! I just make sure I'm prepared for a flat, boy scout here. I actually run tubs, they give a fantastic feel, but this is for the rare breed, so don't go this way unless you are committed to replacing and running tubular rims.

Good luck.

[softy]

As for pressures there is charts, google is your friend.

What I do is pump them up to maximum 120psi (as most clicher rims can't go above this) with the front tyre 5 to 10 less. Now go out on them for a little ride, then lower them 5 to 10psi, equally front and back. Continue to do this until the harshness disappears, it happens quite suddenly when you get to the right pressure for your weight. Once you have the value stick to it.

Remember different tyres are different. Cotton tyres can be run higher pressures with comfort whilst polyester ones need to be lower.

[singlespeedscott]

Having only done 1000km on your tyres I find it hard to believe that they are worn out. You should get at least 5000-10000km out of them. As terrible as they are in the wet they do last a long time.

I don't think they are anymore puncture resistant then any other general road tyre though.

Definitely lower your pressures. I weigh the same as you and would run 100psi in the back and 80 in the front.

I currently run Challenge Parigi Roubaix and have had reasonable success with them. I run them with 80 in the back and 60 in the front. I have had only a couple of punctures in the last 4000km and they offer a superb ride. They are a large tyre measuring 29mm when inflated on Mavic Open Pro's.

The Veloflex Master's are another good tyre but you won't get the same mileage as the Challenge tyres, mostly due to the narrower width. I stopped using them though as they are more suited to smoother roads rather them the coarse chip bitumen that I usually ride. They also tend to run narrower than advertised. The 25's I ran actually only measured 23mm.

[danny the boy]

I used to buy cheap tyres because I never knew any different, nothing more expensive than Rubino Pro's. Then one day I came across a couple of sets of tyres heavily discounted so took the plunge. I now have Pro4's on one set of wheels and TriComps on another and I won't be going back, love the TriComps.

[neobikes]

Michelin Pro4 or Schwalbe ZX for me. I have had acceptable life out of both (unless unlucky). If at anytime there seems to be any damage or wear at any point a new set will go on !

[jacks1071]

Thanks Jacks I am 181cm and weigh 75kg so yeah maybe I am over inflating them running them at 110 to 120 psi (lower end 110 in wet and closer to 120 when dry)

120psi would be way too high for your weight, you're about the same size as myself.

Try this.

Wet 80psi front, 90psi rear

Dry 90psi front, 100psi rear

If you have significant risk of slamming into pot holes on any particular ride, then add 10psi as a safety measure to protect your rims against impact damage.

In the wet, trust me on this - you want a different tyre. Even with the pressures low the Zaffiro's are sketchy at best in the wet.