Road Bikes around $10K

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lincolnsydney
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Re: Road Bikes around $10K

Postby lincolnsydney » Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:02 pm

Look 695. Or a colnago. Or, has been suggests, just get another Orbea

reflex101
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Re: Road Bikes around $10K

Postby reflex101 » Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:16 pm

With the lack of supply from Specialized I guess I will have no choice but to look further afield.

Over and above the fine suggestions coming from this thread I was looking at Bianchi, don't know much about them but I am sure they will be worth considering.

With so many Ti suggestions, I have to ask what is the big attraction, what am I missing?

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Re: Road Bikes around $10K

Postby reflex101 » Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:24 pm

lincolnsydney wrote:Look 695. Or a colnago. Or, has been suggests, just get another Orbea
Yep, might just end up with more of the same....

The Orbea does look good and I have had lot's of great rides with my current bike.

Edit to add: Only two dealers in Sydney both on the Northern beaches (a deal breaker for me)

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lincolnsydney
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Road Bikes around $10K

Postby lincolnsydney » Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:35 pm

As someone that doesn't race, there are so many sportive bike choices now. Every brand has one, and you'd be happy with any of them. So buy from an LBS you like from a brand that's backed up by a good distributor and buy whatever you like the look of. There's no such thing as a bad bike at $10k, but the last thing you want is a $10k bike that isn't backed up well if there's a problem. I think Storck had a new distributor, but the previous one was terrible.
If you're in Sydney, head to BikeBug, let Guy or Rocky sort you out with a Colnago, Time or Neil Pryde... Or even a Ridley. Specialized or Trek have great support, but if you can't get one, then you can't get one. Focus are great too, but they all are, really. Even Cell are making bloody good bikes nowadays.
It's about minor differentiation, branding and some paint that sways us.

If I had 10k, I'd be going custom (as I have), but off rack, I'd go Look or Time for something well engineered but a bit different. We all have our own motivations... And if you like Orbea, then there's something there worth doing again. Belrose guys are great and will look after you.

10k bikes can break, you don't want to have to deal with that, warranty or not.

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stinhambo
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Re: Road Bikes around $10K

Postby stinhambo » Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:13 pm

I'm surprised nobodies mentioned the Cannondale SuperSix Hi Mod.
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singlespeedscott
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Re: Road Bikes around $10K

Postby singlespeedscott » Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:37 pm

Definitely go a custom build if your going to spend that sort of money (not that I ever could justify it on a pushie).

Custom will give you what your looking for and better value for money. Bikes like the Specialized are pumped out of factories like Merida in Tiawan. They are really nothing more then a profiteering market exercise. Their not as hitec as the marketing blurb states. Look at a 10k motorbike, is see 10k worth of gear there, I don't see it in a 10k push bike.

The big brands are just making a grab at your hard earned. If your going to spend that sort of money give it to a custom builder who actually puts in some work for you, and not the accounting department of a large bike company.
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Re: Road Bikes around $10K

Postby lincolnsydney » Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:54 am

I wouldn't say that a Specialized SWorks Tarmac is a cookie cutter bike, given it's one of the only bikes that is tuned for each size, but take some of your points. Spending 10k isn't easy to do on a rack bike. It'd involve carbon wheels and DI2 which have questionable value for the OP. Problem with custom is the wait, but most should be in budget, if you stuck with DA mech and AL wheels.

Sure, SuperSix is a great bike, but a bit racey for someone that doesn't race.

@OP, have you gotten a proper bike fit, a Steve Hogg bike fit would go a long way and you could explore custom options, even custom carbon.

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kb
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Re: Road Bikes around $10K

Postby kb » Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:42 am

Renovo ;-)
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reflex101
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Re: Road Bikes around $10K

Postby reflex101 » Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:48 am

lincolnsydney wrote:I wouldn't say that a Specialized SWorks Tarmac is a cookie cutter bike, given it's one of the only bikes that is tuned for each size, but take some of your points. Spending 10k isn't easy to do on a rack bike. It'd involve carbon wheels and DI2 which have questionable value for the OP. Problem with custom is the wait, but most should be in budget, if you stuck with DA mech and AL wheels.

Sure, SuperSix is a great bike, but a bit racey for someone that doesn't race.

@OP, have you gotten a proper bike fit, a Steve Hogg bike fit would go a long way and you could explore custom options, even custom carbon.
I happen to agree you - Although an S Works Tarmac is mass produced, they do seem to have dialed in different handling traits to better suit each size and it's likely rider. I don't know how true it all is but I have chosen to believe them and that is one of the reasons why I really had my heart set on a Tarmac. The other reason is that for a long time now I have wanted one!! It's a silly amount of money that does not make sense but at least i will get years of pleasure out of it just like the Orbea :D

Di2 is not something I would consider, for me the beauty of a bike is it's simplicity. And I would be just as happy with a set of high end Mavic aluminium wheels, it's just that most high end bikes now come with carbon wheels and I have been assured that they will stand up to the same punishment that my Mavics took over 34000km before the back rim finally developed a crack. Time will tell.

I have never been fitted properly but I know the size bike I need is 51cm. I expect that things like stem and crank length will be double checked when I finally choose a bike

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Re: Road Bikes around $10K

Postby reflex101 » Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:55 am

kb wrote:Renovo ;-)
They are beautiful.

Dai

Re: Road Bikes around $10K

Postby Dai » Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:48 am

reflex101 wrote: With so many Ti suggestions, I have to ask what is the big attraction, what am I missing?
As someone that has gone from steel to aluminium to carbon fibre to titanium I'll try and answer this. If you are the kind of person that likes longer distance recreational rides and the occasional bunch/charity rides, I think titanium is pretty much the perfect material. I remember when I swapped my alloy frame for a Cannondale Six (all carbon frame) the carbon frame was muted and pleasant and ironed out a lot of the road vibration and jarring (compared to the alloy frame). It felt lovely and controlled compared to the alloy frame. I loved the carbon bike right up until the carbon frame started cracking in the steerer tube and Cannondale refused to warranty it (that's another story).

Anyway, (obviously the cracking is just random bad luck, although Cannondale's behaviour apparently isn't) but it made me think I didn't want to take the risk of another all carbon bike. This is what got me first looking at Ti bikes (although Ti can crack too). I ended up getting a Lynskey R340. When I first rode that thing it was basically like going from aluminium to carbon all over again. It was like the frame had suspension hidden somewhere. Even on coarse chip surfaces with skinny tires, the ti frame feels like it is sailing over the top of it. And it is strangely fast without feeling fast. I'd check my speedo and find out I was moving around 5km/h faster than I felt I was going. It's hard to explain, but I think it's the reduced vibration makes it feel slower than it is

I appreciate this sounds like a lot of marketing hyperbole, so really all I'd say is to find a shop nearby that stocks some kind of titanium frame and try and have a test ride. I don't think ti frames are ideal and if I was a serious racer I'm not sure it would be my first choice, but for the kind of riding your doing it sounds like it would be perfect.

I take your point in terms of appearance. I have a friend with a Specialized Venge and that sweeping top tube is absolutely gorgeous. Having said that, a raw titanium frame with deep dish wheels can look pretty sweet in a steampunk kind of way. If you want something a bit unique, the Lynskey Helix is one of a kind although not for everyone.

My thinking is if you have up to $10,000 a Baum would be ideal. You could have a bike made out of the material that is probably most suited to your riding style with a custom frame geometry made to fit you perfectly. In addition to that, you could choose a custom paint job from Baum in your favourite colours or ask them to copy the paint job of another bike that you love.

Anyway, hopefully that helps you understand the love for Ti frames you'll find here and other places.

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Re: Road Bikes around $10K

Postby reflex101 » Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:10 am

Dai wrote:
reflex101 wrote: With so many Ti suggestions, I have to ask what is the big attraction, what am I missing?
As someone that has gone from steel to aluminium to carbon fibre to titanium I'll try and answer this. If you are the kind of person that likes longer distance recreational rides and the occasional bunch/charity rides, I think titanium is pretty much the perfect material. I remember when I swapped my alloy frame for a Cannondale Six (all carbon frame) the carbon frame was muted and pleasant and ironed out a lot of the road vibration and jarring (compared to the alloy frame). It felt lovely and controlled compared to the alloy frame. I loved the carbon bike right up until the carbon frame started cracking in the steerer tube and Cannondale refused to warranty it (that's another story).

Anyway, (obviously the cracking is just random bad luck, although Cannondale's behaviour apparently isn't) but it made me think I didn't want to take the risk of another all carbon bike. This is what got me first looking at Ti bikes (although Ti can crack too). I ended up getting a Lynskey R340. When I first rode that thing it was basically like going from aluminium to carbon all over again. It was like the frame had suspension hidden somewhere. Even on coarse chip surfaces with skinny tires, the ti frame feels like it is sailing over the top of it. And it is strangely fast without feeling fast. I'd check my speedo and find out I was moving around 5km/h faster than I felt I was going. It's hard to explain, but I think it's the reduced vibration makes it feel slower than it is

I appreciate this sounds like a lot of marketing hyperbole, so really all I'd say is to find a shop nearby that stocks some kind of titanium frame and try and have a test ride. I don't think ti frames are ideal and if I was a serious racer I'm not sure it would be my first choice, but for the kind of riding your doing it sounds like it would be perfect.

I take your point in terms of appearance. I have a friend with a Specialized Venge and that sweeping top tube is absolutely gorgeous. Having said that, a raw titanium frame with deep dish wheels can look pretty sweet in a steampunk kind of way. If you want something a bit unique, the Lynskey Helix is one of a kind although not for everyone.

My thinking is if you have up to $10,000 a Baum would be ideal. You could have a bike made out of the material that is probably most suited to your riding style with a custom frame geometry made to fit you perfectly. In addition to that, you could choose a custom paint job from Baum in your favourite colours or ask them to copy the paint job of another bike that you love.

Anyway, hopefully that helps you understand the love for Ti frames you'll find here and other places.
Thanks for your perspective, I only ever hear good things about ti bikes. I think I am still being called by the more flowing lines of carbon though.

When I purchased the the Orbea (full carbon frame) I too had real concerns about it's longevity but after 7 odd years that is not something I worry about has time has proven me wrong. About 3 years ago I dropped the bike and cracked the rear chain stay non drive side. My LBS sent the frame away and it was repaired so well I could not tell where the crack was. I have ridden it over all sorts of conditions since without any problems. In my mind carbon has proven itself as a viable material for bikes.

LOL my only problem is settling on a bike that takes my fancy :D

I will come up with a short list of 3 or 4 and we can have some fun picking the eyes out of each one to see which is the best :mrgreen:

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Re: Road Bikes around $10K

Postby singlespeedscott » Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:47 am

If I was going to get Ti (which you probably wont) the only man I would get to build it would be Kent Eriksen, the founder of Moots.

http://kenteriksen.com/wp-content/theme ... 0569212016" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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KGB
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Re: Road Bikes around $10K

Postby KGB » Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:17 am

The other benefit with Ti is that you can go FULLY custom, down to pretty much any detail you require.
Adjusting a jig for Ti is much easier than creating a brand new mould for a carbon frame, hence finding a proper custom carbon frame is rare and expensive. Not that a Baum is cheap... :s

Having said all that, many people fit just fine on a standard, off the shelf frame.
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clydesmcdale
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Re: Road Bikes around $10K

Postby clydesmcdale » Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:49 pm

Carbon or Titanium?

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reflex101
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Re: Road Bikes around $10K

Postby reflex101 » Sat Sep 13, 2014 1:12 pm

KGB wrote:The other benefit with Ti is that you can go FULLY custom, down to pretty much any detail you require.
Adjusting a jig for Ti is much easier than creating a brand new mould for a carbon frame, hence finding a proper custom carbon frame is rare and expensive. Not that a Baum is cheap... :s

Having said all that, many people fit just fine on a standard, off the shelf frame.
At 168cm I am a bit below the optimal height for the average bike size 54 but I don't think that getting a properly fitted bike is an issue for me, so beyond that I'm not sure what else I could customise on a bike that would be better than most high end stuff available straight off the shelf. Maybe if I was Chris Froome...

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Re: Road Bikes around $10K

Postby reflex101 » Sat Sep 13, 2014 1:14 pm

clydesmcdale wrote:Carbon or Titanium?

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ha ha, why not indeed...

BUT I see two very different materials with extra joints that need not be there.

Edit to add: It does look very good though

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Re: Road Bikes around $10K

Postby rodneycc » Sat Sep 13, 2014 1:16 pm

Is that carbon and Ti. Who makes those? Very interesting. And love the Enve's on it. Wonder how strong the joins are but I want one!
2013 BMC TM SLR01;2013/14 Bianchi Inf CV
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Re: Road Bikes around $10K

Postby Duck! » Sat Sep 13, 2014 1:44 pm

reflex101 wrote:
clydesmcdale wrote:Carbon or Titanium?

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ha ha, why not indeed...

BUT I see two very different materials with extra joints that need not be there.

Edit to add: It does look very good though
As far as blending different materials from a structural perspective, carbon & titanium work reasonably well together. They're very similar on the galvanic scale, so there's minimal risk of corrosion in the joints, which can't be said for aluminium/carbon blends. Carbon & aluminium are extreme opposites on the galvanic scale, which is very bad news for the aluminium bits.

That said, although carbon & titanium are both very nice materials to ride, I don't think a "hybrid" frame like this is going to give the best of either material; you'd be better with a frame that's wholly one material.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Road Bikes around $10K

Postby lincolnsydney » Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:24 pm

Seven and firefly make titanium lug, carbon tubed road bikes. Just lovely.

TI bike will last a lifetime, get properly fitted and you'll never need another bike again. I ride a custom TI hardtail mtb, a custom steel Zanconato and a Teschner Team Race. The Teschner is my stationary trainer bike, most of the time.

As has been said, nothing beats the connection to the road and feeling of instant power of a metal bike. Titanium is compliant and light, further, any custom bike then tunes the tubing to your riding needs. It's a bike for you, not a bike for most people. Baum is great, but long wait times, I'd lean more towards Seven or Passoni through Steve Hogg, myself.

Happy shopping

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Re: Road Bikes around $10K

Postby Drizt » Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:31 pm

The guy wants carbon. Could me of guys.... Useful input please

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Re: Road Bikes around $10K

Postby Duck! » Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:44 pm

Drizt wrote:.. Could me of guys....
What was that meant to have been? :?
Last edited by Duck! on Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Drizt
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Re: Road Bikes around $10K

Postby Drizt » Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:45 pm

Lol, auto correct. Come on guys

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Re: Road Bikes around $10K

Postby Drizt » Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:47 pm

reflex101 wrote: I had given thought to a Ti bike previously and think that would be a good option but I find the flowing lines of carbon more attractive.

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Re: Road Bikes around $10K

Postby reflex101 » Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:48 pm

All good here, I do appreciate the input all round and I did ask for ideas and opinions.... :)

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