2014 Giant Defy Advanced SL Zero - Feedback please

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splitz
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2014 Giant Defy Advanced SL Zero - Feedback please

Postby splitz » Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:20 am

As per subject, thinking of buying one of these. Negative is the Di2 battery under the left chain stay, prefer integrated in seatpost but bike is a good price at present. Dura-Ace Gruppo.

Anyone gimme some feedback please.

Tossing up between that and a Pinarello UD60, Same price but cheaper Shimano wheels and Ultegra Di2. But has battery integrated inside seatpost and a much nicer looking bike in my view.

Thoughts?

cheers
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Re: 2014 Giant Defy Advanced SL Zero - Feedback please

Postby Strydz » Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:06 am

The Defy is a nice bike and I am pretty sure that if you want the battery hidden away that it can be retro fitted with an internal seat post battery, I know a few people who have done this but none of them were Defy's. The Pinarello is overpriced just like most Pinarello's but that is just my own :wink: opinion
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Re: 2014 Giant Defy Advanced SL Zero - Feedback please

Postby Grgic » Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:13 am

Is Dura Ace a deal breaker? What about the 2015 Defy Advanced Pro 0?
http://www.strava.com/athletes/3420668? ... ce=top-nav" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: 2014 Giant Defy Advanced SL Zero - Feedback please

Postby splitz » Fri Oct 31, 2014 9:51 am

Strydz wrote:.......................the battery hidden away that it can be retro fitted with an internal seat post battery, I know a few people who have done this but none of ........................t is just my own :wink: opinion
Mmmmm I can't see how, has an integrated seatpost which starts sort of normal round at the top tube but after 5cms turnes into the flat blade shape type.

cheers
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Re: 2014 Giant Defy Advanced SL Zero - Feedback please

Postby splitz » Fri Oct 31, 2014 9:55 am

Grgic wrote:Is Dura Ace a deal breaker? What about the 2015 Defy Advanced Pro 0?
Nah was always looking at Utegra Di2 but this 2014 Defy is superceded and very good price, Dura-Ace for price of Ultegra. Yeah I saw the 2015 defy and don't want the disc brakes. No point in my view so extra weight for nothing.

Thanks for the reply.
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Re: 2014 Giant Defy Advanced SL Zero - Feedback please

Postby mitchy_ » Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:08 am

splitz wrote:
Strydz wrote:.......................the battery hidden away that it can be retro fitted with an internal seat post battery, I know a few people who have done this but none of ........................t is just my own :wink: opinion
Mmmmm I can't see how, has an integrated seatpost which starts sort of normal round at the top tube but after 5cms turnes into the flat blade shape type.

cheers
not exactly forthcoming with pictures, but this person claims to have used an internal battery with a TCR ISP frame.

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum ... 3&t=114443" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

the diametre of the battery, and internal width of the ISP in the aero section would quickly tell you if it's possible or not.

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Re: 2014 Giant Defy Advanced SL Zero - Feedback please

Postby Duck! » Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:16 pm

splitz wrote: Yeah I saw the 2015 defy and don't want the disc brakes. No point in my view so extra weight for nothing.
What extra weight? Giant claim to have offset the minor weight increase in the braking system with weight reductions elsewhere for a nett equal weight with the previous equivalent models.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: 2014 Giant Defy Advanced SL Zero - Feedback please

Postby biker jk » Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:31 pm

Duck! wrote:
splitz wrote: Yeah I saw the 2015 defy and don't want the disc brakes. No point in my view so extra weight for nothing.
What extra weight? Giant claim to have offset the minor weight increase in the braking system with weight reductions elsewhere for a nett equal weight with the previous equivalent models.
Indeed the SL version is the lightest road frame they have ever produced.

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Re: 2014 Giant Defy Advanced SL Zero - Feedback please

Postby jasonc » Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:11 pm

Duck! wrote:
splitz wrote: Yeah I saw the 2015 defy and don't want the disc brakes. No point in my view so extra weight for nothing.
What extra weight? Giant claim to have offset the minor weight increase in the braking system with weight reductions elsewhere for a nett equal weight with the previous equivalent models.
actually duck - you may be able to answer this

do you have a 2014 defy and a 2015 defy that you can weigh and report on the weights?

yes, the frames may be lighter but it's suggested that due to the heavier disc brake assembly they are heavier overall

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Re: 2014 Giant Defy Advanced SL Zero - Feedback please

Postby Cmm » Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:28 pm

I have pics to prove an internal battery does fit into the ISP on the 2012-2014 defy and tcr sl so all good on this front. The rounded leading edge is wide enough for the battery to fit. I even made a bracket so the battery mounted to the ISP topper so battery can't fall down :)

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Re: 2014 Giant Defy Advanced SL Zero - Feedback please

Postby splitz » Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:21 pm

mitchy_ wrote:
splitz wrote:
Strydz wrote:.......................the battery hidden away that it can be retro fitted with an internal seat post battery, I know a few people who have done this but none of ........................t is just my own :wink: opinion
Mmmmm I can't see how, has an integrated seatpost which starts sort of normal round at the top tube but after 5cms turnes into the flat blade shape type.

cheers
not exactly forthcoming with pictures, but this person claims to have used an internal battery with a TCR ISP frame.

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum ... 3&t=114443" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

the diametre of the battery, and internal width of the ISP in the aero section would quickly tell you if it's possible or not.
Yeah the Wiler ISP is tubular and ID 27.2mm but the Giant ISP is tubular only for the lower few inches then flat, bladed shape, very thin and unlikely a battery can mount in there.

Thanks for the reply.
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Re: 2014 Giant Defy Advanced SL Zero - Feedback please

Postby splitz » Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:29 pm

Duck! wrote:
splitz wrote: Yeah I saw the 2015 defy and don't want the disc brakes. No point in my view so extra weight for nothing.
What extra weight? Giant claim to have offset the minor weight increase in the braking system with weight reductions elsewhere for a nett equal weight with the previous equivalent models.
Yeah then they have a lighter frame or lighter components elsewhere, buy either way, the standard Ultegra brakes weight less then then discs. I'd rather stick with side-pull brakes and get a lighter frame = lighter bike again. I've been led to believe there are extra maintenance issues and expense with the discs brakes. They are supposed to give better stopping power in the wet, but I'm a dry weather ider and proud of it. EVen when caught in the rain otw home, wet brakes hasn't been an issue. The dics brakes no doubt stop way better in the dry, but I havce been riding with side-pull brakes for (AT) 26 years and never thought I needed more brakes.

Lets face it, 700 x 23/25C tyres don't stop that well and lockup and skid with side-pull so really any extra braking power isn't going to be used.

I just don't see the need for discs brakes on a road bike, they aren't for me.

cheers and thanks.
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Re: 2014 Giant Defy Advanced SL Zero - Feedback please

Postby Duck! » Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:37 pm

Actually built an Avail (women's Defy) Advanced SL 0 this afternoon, factory specced with internal battery. I can assure you that the Giant ISP frames with both Vector (aero) and D-Fuse (D-shaped "comfort") ISP accept the internal battery.

I didn't weigh the bike, but I'll get the guys to do so tomorrow before the customer picks it up.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: 2014 Giant Defy Advanced SL Zero - Feedback please

Postby splitz » Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:41 pm

Cmm wrote:I have pics to prove an internal battery does fit into the ISP on the 2012-2014 defy and tcr sl so all good on this front. The rounded leading edge is wide enough for the battery to fit. I even made a bracket so the battery mounted to the ISP topper so battery can't fall down :)
Cmm I shoulda read this post first! I'd be very interested to see those pictures so I'll PM you my e-mail if that's OK. Obviously need to remove the cranks and BB to run the wire up the seat tube/ISP. Other link above says to chuck the "junction box" up the down tube. I'm a bit confused as to how one would charge the battery! I think the Giant chain-stay mounted one has to be removed from the bracket and placed in a charger. Do I assume you have to remove the seat and ISP clamp and remove battery to charge it? (I'm told the new ISP mounted Di2 charge from a socket on the head unit!)

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Re: 2014 Giant Defy Advanced SL Zero - Feedback please

Postby biker jk » Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:43 pm

Duck! wrote:Actually built an Avail (women's Defy) Advanced SL 0 this afternoon, factory specced with internal battery. I can assure you that the Giant ISP frames with both Vector (aero) and D-Fuse (D-shaped "comfort") ISP accept the internal battery.

I didn't weigh the bike, but I'll get the guys to do so tomorrow before the customer picks it up.
I've seen a 2015 Advanced SL 0 quoted at 7.22kg but it didn't mention the size. Anyone know what the 2014 model weighs?

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Re: 2014 Giant Defy Advanced SL Zero - Feedback please

Postby splitz » Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:49 pm

Duck! wrote:Actually built an Avail (women's Defy) Advanced SL 0 this afternoon, factory specced with internal battery. I can assure you that the Giant ISP frames with both Vector (aero) and D-Fuse (D-shaped "comfort") ISP accept the internal battery.......<snip>..........
Duck, cheers mate, seems Cmm confirms that will fit inside ISP. The one you built though is factory fitted so I assume charges from the head unit?

thanks
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Re: 2014 Giant Defy Advanced SL Zero - Feedback please

Postby Duck! » Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:57 pm

splitz wrote:I've been led to believe there are extra maintenance issues and expense with the discs brakes.
You have been misled. Cable-operated discs require no more periodic adjustment than rim brakes. Hydraulics do the wear compensation themselves.
They are supposed to give better stopping power in the wet, but I'm a dry weather ider and proud of it. EVen when caught in the rain otw home, wet brakes hasn't been an issue. The dics brakes no doubt stop way better in the dry, but I havce been riding with side-pull brakes for (AT) 26 years and never thought I needed more brakes.

Lets face it, 700 x 23/25C tyres don't stop that well and lockup and skid with side-pull so really any extra braking power isn't going to be used.

I just don't see the need for discs brakes on a road bike, they aren't for me.
One of the online cycling rags just recently did a head-to-head of rim vs. hydro disc (the author's opinion is that mechanical discs are a waste of money) on otherwise similar bikes, using the fairly simple measure of comparing stopping distance to determine the relative effectiveness of the brakes. In the dry, both were very similar, with the disc pulling up only slightly shorter. In the wet, the discs came out significantly further in front (as expected). The third test they did was single-finger braking. By cutting the input power from the rider back to a minimum, it tests how efficient the braking system is at getting that input through to the brake. Not surprisingly, both brakes took longer to stop than in the full-power dry test. However, stopping distance on the cable brake blew out enormously, while the hydro was only slightly longer.

The short conclusion is that absolute braking power is not significantly different, but hydraulics require a fraction of the effort from the rider to achieve it.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: 2014 Giant Defy Advanced SL Zero - Feedback please

Postby Duck! » Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:00 pm

splitz wrote:
Duck! wrote:Actually built an Avail (women's Defy) Advanced SL 0 this afternoon, factory specced with internal battery. I can assure you that the Giant ISP frames with both Vector (aero) and D-Fuse (D-shaped "comfort") ISP accept the internal battery.......<snip>..........
Duck, cheers mate, seems Cmm confirms that will fit inside ISP. The one you built though is factory fitted so I assume charges from the head unit?

thanks
Yes, the bike is fitted with the EW90 junction box, which has a USB-connected charging port.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: 2014 Giant Defy Advanced SL Zero - Feedback please

Postby splitz » Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:07 pm

Duck! wrote: You have been misled. Cable-operated discs require no more periodic adjustment than rim brakes. Hydraulics do the wear compensation themselves.
Misled I was! :)
.............<snip>.................. However, stopping distance on the cable brake blew out enormously, while the hydro was only slightly longer.

The short conclusion is that absolute braking power is not significantly different, but hydraulics require a fraction of the effort from the rider to achieve it.
Sorry I assume you mean the rim brake not cable disc? Interesting result.
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Re: 2014 Giant Defy Advanced SL Zero - Feedback please

Postby splitz » Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:09 pm

Duck! wrote:Yes, the bike is fitted with the EW90 junction box, which has a USB-connected charging port.
cheers, I'll wait to hear from Cmm about how to charge when mounted in seat post...thanks!
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Re: 2014 Giant Defy Advanced SL Zero - Feedback please

Postby Duck! » Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:23 pm

splitz wrote:
Duck! wrote: You have been misled. Cable-operated discs require no more periodic adjustment than rim brakes. Hydraulics do the wear compensation themselves.
Misled I was! :)
.............<snip>.................. However, stopping distance on the cable brake blew out enormously, while the hydro was only slightly longer.

The short conclusion is that absolute braking power is not significantly different, but hydraulics require a fraction of the effort from the rider to achieve it.
Sorry I assume you mean the rim brake not cable disc? Interesting result.
Yes, the article I referred to compared cable-operated rim brakes with hydro discs. In line with the authors disparaging opinion of cable discs, they were not tested. :-)
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: 2014 Giant Defy Advanced SL Zero - Feedback please

Postby eeksll » Fri Oct 31, 2014 9:03 pm

I think I need to adjust my bb7's more than I did my v-brakes. However, the adjustment is really easy and quick, i have one of my commuter.

One annoying thing with hydraulic disc brakes is once the rotors is bent a little ... its scrape scrape scrape scrape ... while riding. I have considered going hydro for the commuter but this reason is holding me back, with all the bike rack slots and lots of bikes in close proximity where I park it, I am just not confident I can keep the rotor straight for very long.

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Re: 2014 Giant Defy Advanced SL Zero - Feedback please

Postby Duck! » Fri Oct 31, 2014 9:19 pm

That's a potential problem for all discs, not just hydro. Yes you can back mechanical discs off to an extent, but at risk of them becoming dangerously ineffective due to too much lever travel before engagement.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: 2014 Giant Defy Advanced SL Zero - Feedback please

Postby splitz » Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:26 pm

Duck! wrote:Yes, the article I referred to compared cable-operated rim brakes with hydro discs. In line with the authors disparaging opinion of cable discs, they were not tested. :-)
Yes heard thew cable discs are cheap....and..... NASTY! Thanks for the info, very helpul.
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Re: 2014 Giant Defy Advanced SL Zero - Feedback please

Postby Cmm » Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:33 am

Weight wise my large defy advanced pro 2 (105 groupo no pedals or bidon cages) 8.4kg

It's getting the di2 and hydro treatment in the next few weeks :)

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