Wilier Zero 7 Vs Tarmac S-works

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Jumma
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Wilier Zero 7 Vs Tarmac S-works

Postby Jumma » Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:39 pm

Hi all

I am looking at spending some cash in the new year and getting myself a "nice" bike. It needs to have a racey geometry 'cause that's just how I ride. I do around 250-300km per week typically and race a bit of B Grade local club races. Riding my first bike, a TCR advanced (not the SL). It has servied me well and will continue to as my backup bike.

The two bikes I have narrowed down to are the Willy and the S-works. My main target is race geometry, fast, stiff, light, reasonably smooth for a race geometry and weight, aesthetics (I like the stealth look, not much of a glam type person) and of course reliable. The Zero 7 (2015 in black) is a very nice looking bike, so to is the black Tarmac S-works.

Now apart from not having ridden either of these bikes I am really looking for some hands on experience with either/both preferably. Has anyone out there ridden both? I know the Tarmac is a great bike from what I hear, a few guys out there ride them and they get great reviews. The Zero 7 however I have not seen around, but it gets some great reviews also. It is also VERY light, stiff and apparently silky smooth to ride compared to many others.

Neither are cheap. Perhaps the Tarmac may have better support here is Oz, not sure.

Any feedback, experiences etc. would be great to help me sway. I am swaying towards the Zero at the moment as it is different, however I still do also really like the Tarmac. there must be something there that is better and more important on one or the other that can sway me either way. They both look great IMO.

I know we all have different tastes and either of these bikes may not suit all.

Thanks for any info.

James

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Re: Wilier Zero 7 Vs Tarmac S-works

Postby rodneycc » Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:05 pm

Don't think you can go wrong with the Tarmac. I've heard the new S-works is a little hard to find though. The guy I bought my Roubaix off wanted to buy one and was having trouble sourcing it a couple of months back... Might of changed by now with stock filtering through?? But even last years model looks a ripping ride... I don't know much about the Wilier's. Shame the TCR's weren't updated this year because they are great as well even last years hold their own (watch out the TCRs next year I reckon!). However I reckon every person is a little biased on the brands they own :-) BTW The BMCs might be worth a look...
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Ross
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Re: Wilier Zero 7 Vs Tarmac S-works

Postby Ross » Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:44 am

+1 on S-Works Tarmac. 8)
Don't know about being hard to get, plenty on Bike Exchange.
Don't know anything about the Willier but I'm sure it's good too.

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Jumma
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Re: Wilier Zero 7 Vs Tarmac S-works

Postby Jumma » Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:25 pm

Yeah. I did notice availability of the Tarmac was not great, which kind of limits getting the frame size and colour you want.

I guess it will come down to riding both to see the difference in feel and geometry. Both bikes look pretty good.

Image

Image

This is the look I am trying to achieve - stealth!
Would mean some mid depth 40 mm carbon rims and hopefully Dura Ace Di2 groupset.

The Zero 7 frame sounds like it is very light (Lighter than the S-works) and has great dampening capabilities i.e. comfortable.

Haven't heard anyone have any particular issues with either of these bikes.

The Wilier is nice because it is "different" too. But the S-works is a weapon with a reputation!!

I am interested particularly in the difference between rides on these two i.e. frame comfort, vibrations, bump absorption etc. I think this will be the biggest difference if any between them other than maybe slight different in stiffness and weight. I'm expecting the Zero to be lighter and smoother (SEI) than the SW, but the SW will be stiffer and maybe give better power transfer.

Thanks for any input so far.

I am trying to line up some test rides in Sydney at the moment, there are limited opportunities.

BTW - I am not keen on the BMC styling, the BH Ultralight looks OK though, it is a bit R3 looking, square tubes etc.

Cheers

James

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Ross
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Re: Wilier Zero 7 Vs Tarmac S-works

Postby Ross » Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:38 pm

Here's a pic of my S-Works (click to enlarge), not as stealthy as the one above but still not bad IMO

Image

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Jumma
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Re: Wilier Zero 7 Vs Tarmac S-works

Postby Jumma » Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:08 pm

Nice SW Ross.
They are the stock Rovals that come with SW's yes? How do you find these wheels, they look around 40mm? Do you notice much difference between standard wheels and the deeper carbon Rovals. Have they stayed true well?
Looks good with the dark grey shimano cranks too.
Cheers
James

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Re: Wilier Zero 7 Vs Tarmac S-works

Postby Ross » Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:33 pm

The Rovals are actually from a Roubaix. I bought them second hand a couple of months or so ago from a guy on another forum. Yes 40mm. Nearly as light as Shimano DA C24 wheels. Feel a bit harsher than the alloy wheels to ride with not uncomfortable. Great wheels. The groupset is Ultegra 6870, couldn't justify the extra ~$1000 for DA, and the dark grey colour matches the rest of the bike better.

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Re: Wilier Zero 7 Vs Tarmac S-works

Postby def » Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:27 pm

Well I got myself a new bike a couple of months ago after many months of research. I had the spreadsheet from hell with about 20 or 30 bikes on it.

Very high on my list was the Zero-7. Everything I'd read about it was great. And I think it looks fantastic in real life although there was a fair bit of nonsense on the top tube advertising the various technologies that are incorporated into the bike - this was for the previous model. The other bike I was getting seriously interested in was the Collage C60. Again, the write-ups were amazing and the frame is a thing of great beauty (in the eye of the beholder, of course).

I was on the verge of putting down a deposit on a C60 without having ridden one. There was a ludicrous waiting period but one my size had popped up. My head overruled my heart and I made the effort to go to an LBS and ride a selection of these high end bikes before plunging on the C60.

As luck would have it, there was a Zero 7 built up in my size. Dura-Ace Di2 (not my preferred group) and some Mavic carbon wheels. It was a great bike to ride but I have to say I wasn't as blown away as I'd hoped to be. I was coming off an Orbea Onix and even though the Zero 7 was lighter and stiffer, it didn't feel that much better to ride. It felt like I was fighting a bit around corners and it was a bit harsh. Wheels may have contributed to that but at the time I thought well maybe that's what these high end race bikes are like.

Then I got on a Cervelo something-or-other. Nup. Like riding an ironing board. It felt like the unpleasant aspects of the Zero 7 had been focussed into a narrow beam and had a saddle whacked on it.

Then I got on a 2nd hand Pinerello Dogma 65.1. This is not a bike that had made my list of purchase candidates (although it was on the spreadsheet). Wow. Within a couple of minutes I was in a state of disbelief. It felt incredible. It's heavier than the Zero 7 and Cervelo but getting it going seemed so much easier. I noticed that I was pulling on the bars less with the effort I was putting in. When going around a corner it felt like I had my own personal banking - it was rock solid. The most amazing thing to me was how amazed I was. I didn't think that bikes at this level could be so different to ride.

I got back to the shop and put a deposit down for a Dogma 65.1 (which is now last year's model). I've ridden it a few hundred km since and it's still got that amazing feel. I've collected a few climbing PRs on Strava. And also descending PRs. The cornering on this is fantastic - no wobbling or wallowing. Much more confidence inspiring than the Onix. I don't know what Wiggo's problem was in the Giro.

So, my advice is (and this has been said many times here) - go ride some bikes before you choose. For that sort of coin you want to get something that rides damn well. And the way a bike rides can turn your preconceptions upside down. That spreadsheet turned out to be so much bollocks.

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Re: Wilier Zero 7 Vs Tarmac S-works

Postby Jumma » Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:58 pm

Thanks def.

Yeah. I am not a fan of the styling of the pinarellos in general. Though I don't mind the F8. I was thinking of maybe having a ride on one of those as a couple of the stores I am looking at going to have both Wilier, Pina's and/or Specialised. If the F8 is anything like it is supposed to be according to some reviews it may be worth a look.

I was always planning on riding these bikes before I put down ANY cash. It is a lot of $ to put down without even riding the bike, I wont be doing that.

My sister has a couple of Pinarello's and she swears by them. She has raced at masters level at state level so she knows how to ride and pick a bike.

I have heard little positive about cervellos and I don't really like the shaping of them to be honest. The R3/5 is too square for me. I like some curves. The BH is similar, though the ultralight sounds like a weapon, it looks like an R3 to me. It is also supposed to be quite harsh in the ride department.

I am trying to avoid spreadsheets :) I am basically looking at weight, stiffness, ride quality and handling along with appearance. I like some curves. I also like the stealth look, not really into bling or glam at all.

As for riding bikes, some stores are difficult. A couple have asked me to pay them to test ride and they will take the $ off the bike I buy. What if I dont buy one of them? I lose some $150 or so. Stuff that. They will not be getting my business. Since when do you pay to see if a product suits you or if you like it!!!

Anyhow, plenty of time, I just have to find some to go to a couple of stores and ride some bikes.

Thanks for you input. I will add the F8 to my list.

Cheers

James

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Ross
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Re: Wilier Zero 7 Vs Tarmac S-works

Postby Ross » Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:35 am

Jumma wrote:
As for riding bikes, some stores are difficult. A couple have asked me to pay them to test ride and they will take the $ off the bike I buy. What if I dont buy one of them? I lose some $150 or so. Stuff that. They will not be getting my business. Since when do you pay to see if a product suits you or if you like it!!!

Anyhow, plenty of time, I just have to find some to go to a couple of stores and ride some bikes.

Thanks for you input. I will add the F8 to my list.

Cheers

James
Wow never heard of bike shops charging money for test rides! :shock: Surprised they don't charge admission for you to walk into their shop. :o
I have a (female) friend who is selling a F6 Pinarello, pink and white so probably not your preferred colour scheme? It's a 2011model 54cm with Campagnolo Chorus 10 speed groupset, barely ridden $1900

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Jumma
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Re: Wilier Zero 7 Vs Tarmac S-works

Postby Jumma » Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:13 pm

Hey Ross. Yeah. Pink, probably not.

And yes - charging to test ride a bike - pretty rude alright! A certain shop down in Berry told me that upfront, they said, just so I would not be offended when I arrived there. Well, guess what? I wont ever be arriving at their shop to spend 10k!

I am also not keen on those older Pinarellos with the curvy chain stays and forks, doesn't do much for me looks wise. It is really toned down on the F8, which is a beautiful looking frame. I actually read up about the F8 some time ago, and now I remember why I hadn't considered it. It is kind of out of my price range!!!!

10K is about my limit, a little either side is doable but not 14-15K!!!.

So I think the Zero and the Tarmac SW are still main contenders. I need to compare them mostly.

One thing I can find a lot of info on is direct frame weight comparison. Can someone chime in on this one.

2015 Tarmac SW
Frame 56 = 966 g (not sure if this includes BB, bearings, seat collar, FD and RD hangers, bottle cage screws).

2015 Zero 7
Frame XL = 780 g (not sure if this includes anything other than frame).

I guess this is just one of the things I need to compare, and it needs to be a fair comparison just like riding both and comparing stiffness, power transfer, vibration, dampening, road feel, steering response, frame geometry, acceleration and fit etc etc. I know weight is not everything, but if you can get everything else right and it's lighter too, all the better.

I noticed that Pinarello list their frame weight - raw - without paint!!!

Anyone, got any definite weights for these two, including forks, SP, hangers, BB, bearings etc. The rest of the gear is dependent on what I chose to put on it.

Thanks

Jumma

def
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Re: Wilier Zero 7 Vs Tarmac S-works

Postby def » Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:45 pm

Hi James, I agree that the new F8 looks damn nice.

I should have added, I wasn't trying to convince you to get a Pinny. I'm not mad keen on the look of curvy stuff either. But it was a case of riding it and being sold. I hope that there's a bike out there that gives you the same feeling when you throw your leg over it. And as to the curvy stuff, well, I can't see that when I'm riding it.

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Re: Wilier Zero 7 Vs Tarmac S-works

Postby Ross » Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:22 pm

Jumma wrote: So I think the Zero and the Tarmac SW are still main contenders. I need to compare them mostly.

One thing I can find a lot of info on is direct frame weight comparison. Can someone chime in on this one.

2015 Tarmac SW
Frame 56 = 966 g (not sure if this includes BB, bearings, seat collar, FD and RD hangers, bottle cage screws).

2015 Zero 7
Frame XL = 780 g (not sure if this includes anything other than frame).

I guess this is just one of the things I need to compare, and it needs to be a fair comparison just like riding both and comparing stiffness, power transfer, vibration, dampening, road feel, steering response, frame geometry, acceleration and fit etc etc. I know weight is not everything, but if you can get everything else right and it's lighter too, all the better.

I noticed that Pinarello list their frame weight - raw - without paint!!!

Anyone, got any definite weights for these two, including forks, SP, hangers, BB, bearings etc. The rest of the gear is dependent on what I chose to put on it.

Thanks

Jumma

There's a 58cm S-Works Tarmac frame for sale on this forum, maybe you could ask the guy to weigh it for you - 58cm vs 56cm is going to mean SFA weight difference.
I wouldn't get too fixated on weight, I'm sure you can build a Tarmac up to come under the UCI l6.8kg limit

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Wilier Zero 7 Vs Tarmac S-works

Postby Jumma » Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:47 pm

Def - no problems. I asked for options and you mentioned a comparison so no problems there.

Ross - Yeah. Pity that frame is not a 56 cause I was originally considering maybe getting an SL4 and getting it prepped and painted Matt black by a bike paint shop and doing my own unmarked custom stealth build.

But not much around and anything is asking big prices do I may as well go new with full warranty.

I am not worrying as much re weight now as I can see that there won't be much in it at this level and I need to look at other qualities like stiffness, ride quality and geometry. Mind you all the bikes I have looked at are close in geometry. The only other I haven't seriously considered but like the look of us the oltre XR2. It is a nice looking frame. But don't know much else about it. I think they are expensive also.

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Re: Wilier Zero 7 Vs Tarmac S-works

Postby rearviewmirror » Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:05 pm

I just bought one of the last SL4 frames around. It's an awesome ride, no regrets at all.

S-Works Tarmac
Dura-Ace 9000
ENVE 3.4

Image

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Re: Wilier Zero 7 Vs Tarmac S-works

Postby rodneycc » Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:04 pm

That's one hell of a spec rearviewmirror. Very nice. Can park it at my place anytime :-)
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Jumma
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Re: Wilier Zero 7 Vs Tarmac S-works

Postby Jumma » Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:06 am

Nice bike. I'd send it to get painted matt black and put dark grey DA Di2 setup on it. Perfect! Awesome if I could find an SL4 frame in 56 for a decent price.

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Ross
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Re: Wilier Zero 7 Vs Tarmac S-works

Postby Ross » Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:56 am

RRP for a S-Works SL4 frame is now $4500 (disc ones $6500 :shock: ) , there's a few of last year's models (still SL4) cheaper on Bike Exchange but problem with Specialized you have to go to the shop and buy it, they won't do it over the phone or internet. You could try and get a forum member to help out with an interstate purchase or you could road trip/fly there yourself and do a deal.

If you don't care what colour you get because you are going to get it repainted then it makes it easier.
One here for $2990 - http://www.bikeexchange.com.au/a/road-f ... /102415056" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Another - http://www.bikeexchange.com.au/a/road-f ... /102047808" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Another - http://www.bikeexchange.com.au/a/road-f ... /102415060" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.bikeexchange.com.au/a/road-f ... /102325698" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.bikeexchange.com.au/a/road-f ... /102535165" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.bikeexchange.com.au/a/road-f ... /102523846" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A guy I know in Canberra repaints bikes and does a great job for very reasonable money, if you are interested I can pass his details onto you.

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Jumma
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Wilier Zero 7 Vs Tarmac S-works

Postby Jumma » Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:38 pm

Yeah. Thanks for the info. What is the difference between a 2012,13,14 SL4 SW frame?

This is a good option. I can source group set etc from wiggle and so on.

How is warranty on these frames? I understand specialised give lifetime warranty but only on first ownership of new frames that are built up by a specialised approved workshop!? Is this correct?

I would like the details of guy in Canberra as I was going to send to QLD.

Basically a strip to natural carbon and the either Matt clear if the carbon layup looks good or a Matt black coat with a Matt clear over.

Thanks

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Ross
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Re: Wilier Zero 7 Vs Tarmac S-works

Postby Ross » Sat Dec 06, 2014 6:36 pm

Warranty on a new frame - there is a website http://www.specialized.com/au/en-au/sup ... gistration" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; you can register your bike/frame on, doesn't have to be built by a Specialized shop, not mandantory to register the bike here, just keep your receipt in the event of a warranty claim, A mate of mine bought a frame from Melbourne and then bought components from Wiggle etc and got a mechanic mate to build it up and about 6 months after he bought it found what looked to maybe be a crack in the frame so he rang a local Canberra shop about it and they said bring it in and we'll look at it and he ended up getting a new frame within a week. The shop said they weren't sure if the crack was in the frame or just the paint but they gave him a new frame anyway.

There was a "new" SL4 released in 2014, a bit stiffer and a different seat clamp arrangement. Read more here - http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/05/the-n ... ac-review/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My bike is the "old" 2013 SL4. Rides great. After reading about the seatpost clamp in the above review I decided I didn't need the possible coffeee shop kudos and extra expense of having the latest and greatest.

I will send you PM with details of paint guy.

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Re: Wilier Zero 7 Vs Tarmac S-works

Postby Jumma » Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:39 pm

Thanks for the details Ross.

I contacted a Sydney Specialised dealer yesterday to ask about frames and they said some are coming into the country in the colour I am looking for in the 2015 frame in my size 56 cm (I am about 183 cm and currently ride a TCR with 56-57cm horizontal distance between seat post and headset centrelines).

they said it would be same price as a complete bike to have it built by them, but they also mentioned that warranty would be void on the frame if I was to build the bike myself from the new frame. Interesting!! BTW a new frame is AUD $4500 retail.

I need to ride one of these basically and do a compare with the Zero 7 still.

I have also seen a couple of 56 cm SL4 frames around that people are selling for under 2k. Not sure about buying second hand carbon frames though as you don't know history and warranty does not carry to second owner. These days could be repairs or damage you are unaware of. So there is some risk there, though generally much cheaper.

Either way I am looking at the 9070 Di2 groupset and Roval wheels if they build for me. I will see what stem and bars I want though, cause might go carbon, light weight.

Also - the 2015 frame has some other benefits other than the concealed seat clamp. The clamp allows more seat post exposure thus improves vertical compliance apparently. It is also supposed to be a little lighter and stiffer. The tube shapes from what I hear are slightly different to SL4 also - probably where the extra stiffness comes from?!? They also did ride engineered too, but that doesn't really affect me as I am right in the middle 56 cm.

Cheers

Jumma

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Re: Wilier Zero 7 Vs Tarmac S-works

Postby pcjones » Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:46 am

The 2015 Wilier Zero 7 is a great bike as is the Tarmac S-works. For me the Wilier was just a little less common although I purchased the 2014 Wilier Zero 7 with Super Record as it was in clearance mode.
My previous ride was a Time and I purchased this for the same reason. Google how many showrooms sell Specialised and do the same for wilier via http://wilier.com/en/dealers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
As a consequence there are a lot less Wiliers on the road.
The weight of the Wilier is amazing for what is actually a very compliant ride i.e. its good for the distances.
I purchased mine from Con at Greengrocer Cycling in the middle of 'Goulburn' who is doing some great deals at present even on the 15 model.
Its a fair trek from Sydney but worth it if you can.
Cheers

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Ross
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Re: Wilier Zero 7 Vs Tarmac S-works

Postby Ross » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:04 am

Jumma wrote:
they said it would be same price as a complete bike to have it built by them, but they also mentioned that warranty would be void on the frame if I was to build the bike myself from the new frame. Interesting!! BTW a new frame is AUD $4500 retail.
Yes I mentioned the retail price for a S-Works frame was $4500 in my earlier post.

$4500 for a complete S-Works bike? I'll take 10 thanks. Actually I'll take 50 if they come with Di2 (I'll even accept Ultegra Di2!) and Roval wheels. They are full of it and just trying to make you buy what they have in stock because they are too lazy to order a frame for you and know you will probably buy your parts online rather than through them. Like I said, my mate bought a frame from Melbourne, had it built up and then a few months later had frame replaced under warranty by a Canberra shop. As long as the frame has been bought from a reputable Specialized dealer and the warranty problem hasn't been caused by incorrect fitment of another component therm warranty will still be valid.

Jumma wrote: I have also seen a couple of 56 cm SL4 frames around that people are selling for under 2k. Not sure about buying second hand carbon frames though as you don't know history and warranty does not carry to second owner. These days could be repairs or damage you are unaware of. So there is some risk there, though generally much cheaper.
Carbon can be repaired quite easily and relatively inexpensively, I doubt you'd go anywhere near spending an extra $2500 on top of $2000 purchase price fixing a frame, if you did happen to find a crack. Which is unlikely. I've bought 3 frames through eBay and not had a problem.
Jumma wrote:Either way I am looking at the 9070 Di2 groupset and Roval wheels if they build for me. I will see what stem and bars I want though, cause might go carbon, light weight.
Sounds good.
Jumma wrote: Also - the 2015 frame has some other benefits other than the concealed seat clamp. The clamp allows more seat post exposure thus improves vertical compliance apparently. It is also supposed to be a little lighter and stiffer. The tube shapes from what I hear are slightly different to SL4 also - probably where the extra stiffness comes from?!? They also did ride engineered too, but that doesn't really affect me as I am right in the middle 56 cm.

Cheers

Jumma
Yes all that was mentioned in the cyclingtips review I posted earlier. Wade Wallace said he couldn't really tell much/any difference between his SL4 and the new one when he tested them. He is a faster/stronger/better rider than me. Might make a slight difference to Cancellara or other pro, but to the average club rider probably not. But hey it's your money, you can spend it on whatever you like!

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Re: Wilier Zero 7 Vs Tarmac S-works

Postby Ross » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:10 am

pcjones wrote:The 2015 Wilier Zero 7 is a great bike as is the Tarmac S-works. For me the Wilier was just a little less common although I purchased the 2014 Wilier Zero 7 with Super Record as it was in clearance mode.
My previous ride was a Time and I purchased this for the same reason. Google how many showrooms sell Specialised and do the same for wilier via http://wilier.com/en/dealers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
As a consequence there are a lot less Wiliers on the road.
The weight of the Wilier is amazing for what is actually a very compliant ride i.e. its good for the distances.
I purchased mine from Con at Greengrocer Cycling in the middle of 'Goulburn' who is doing some great deals at present even on the 15 model.
Its a fair trek from Sydney but worth it if you can.
Cheers
Con (AT) Greengrocer does some great deals and is very flexible as in he will swap components and even groupsets over to give you what you want. If he has a particular bike there that you like but it has a Campy groupset and you want Shimano he will swap it over. Most other shops just tell you that's how it comes, if you don't like it then the front door is over there. I know many people that make the trip up to Goulburn from Canberra to buy a bike from Con.

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Re: Wilier Zero 7 Vs Tarmac S-works

Postby Jumma » Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:33 pm

Thanks for the replies.

PC - yes, the Wilier does have that certain originality to it. It even looks a bit different. All the reviews and feedback on the Wilier frame say that it is an amazing ride. Very stiff, yet very compliant and smooth. The BB386EVO would help a bit there!! The Zero 7 is certainly still within my sights, however I have been steering towards the S-works. I just wont know until I ride both.

As for the ride, geometry etc. I ride 250-300 km per week average and I race B grade club level road and crits, mostly coming 2/3 or 4 position. I love to climb, so the Zero's light weight would be great, coupled with that stiffness for me. I do however need an all-rounder for races.

Ross - I will look further into my options with the Tarmac builds, frames, warranty etc. And to save any confusion, no I never said it was same price as frame for a full build, what I mean is they could build a bike up to match a pre built or standard build price all up, considering same general equipment.

guys - as for Con - yes he is a nice guy and my sister, who races masters, put me onto him a few years back. I bought a Scott Spark 30 from him some years ago, and paid a low price, for a build as per spec. I have already spoken to him and yes, he will pretty much build anything I would like on the Wilier frame. I will definitely be going to see him and test riding there as it is just over an hour or so from where I live. Get in lunch and a coffee at the shop too ;)

I am not sure why so many bike stores are so arrogant!!! Especially when you are potentially looking at spending the price of a small car at their store! It is no wonder online stores like Wiggle are doing so well. I have had LBS let me down on price and delivery on numerous occasions now and they just don't get back to you on anything either. Many have mechanics that are reasonably incompetent also. I am sure there are some good ones, I know the old guy (Max I think his name is) at Green Grocers is a competent mechanic and does a good job.

On a side note - I went onto my local Trek dealer the other day and they were all over me. They wanted me to commit to fit outs on their you-beaut bike fit centre (looks like a transformer robot). THey would get me any bike I wanted to test ride, no charge, no commitment. I was looking at the Emonda SLR 8, but not sure Trek does much for me, they just seem so uninspiring and lack soul to me. This is my feeling and opinion only BTW.

Anyhow, I have holidays for two weeks starting soon. When I get back things will start getting serious.

Merry Christmas and HNY to all. Be safe!

Jumma

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