Wilier Zero 7 Vs Tarmac S-works

[GJM]

I would consider a Scott Addict SL in your price range.
Aero qualities, super light, stealth appeal, 2014s going at amazing prices etc.

[Jumma]

GJM. Yeah the Addict is awesomely light at 1kg for frame and fork but the shape of the frame doesn't inspire me much. I have also heard the ride is pretty unforgiving and harsh compared to its peers. But true it is a very light and stiff frame.

[Jumma]

As for warranty on a Specialised frame set. Its pretty limited.

You pretty much need to buy a frame from a Specialised dealer and have them build the bike for you.

"Specialized warrants to the original owner for the lifetime of the original owner of each new Specialized bicycle or frameset that the bicycle frame or frameset when new is free of defective materials and workmanship. The lifetime Limited Warranty is conditioned upon the bicycle being operated under normal conditions and use, and properly maintained. This Limited Warranty does not apply to paint/finish or components attached to the bicycle/frameset such as front forks, wheels, drive train, brakes, seat post, handlebar and stem, or any suspension related parts or components. Paint/finish, components attached to the bicycle/frameset such as front forks, wheels, drive train, brakes, seat post, handlebar and stem, or any suspension related parts or components are covered under the limited one (1) year warranty. This Limited Warranty is void if the bicycle or frameset was not purchased new or not properly assembled by an authorized Specialized dealer."

This bit - "This Limited Warranty is void if the bicycle or frameset was not purchased new or not properly assembled by an authorized Specialized dealer."

Anyhow, still need to get off my rear and test some bikes. Been so damn busy!!!

[Pottsy]

There is nothing wrong with that. Pretty much every company will have something similar.

Plus Specialized lifetime warranty is very very good from what I have dealt with.

[Jumma]

Yeah. Not saying there is anything wrong with it. It just doesn't allow for someone to build their own bike from a frame up. It needs to be done by a spec dealer.

[Jumma]

OK. Just an update.

This has been a very slow process as I have been super busy with life and so on...

I contacted a Sydney Specialised dealer and they can get me a 2015 S-works frame in my preferred colour and size and build up a bike with full DA Di2 (cranks included as the s-works ones may be an issue with vector pedals and clearances) plus apparently the DA chain rings give the best shift performance over the s-works (though I do like the idea of saving 100 grams with the s-works cranks).

So I am heading up tomorrow to check out some bikes and the only one issue I have at the moment is finding one in my size that I can take for a 20 minute test ride just to seal the deal.

I have decided that I prefer the looks of the Tarmac (always have really) and the pricing between the two is pretty close. I also think Specialised will provide better support in the long term over Wilier (just a hunch, not sure if it is justified and not trying to make any bold statements re Wilier support).

One thing that I have heard a couple of times is the 2015 Zero 7 can be a bit "twitchy" in the larger frame sizes, as I would need an XL. They had improved the front end stiffness from the 2013/14 frame, however it is apparently still "twitchy" and flexes under load with larger riders (I am 183cm, 80kg and punch out average 900-1000 Watts over a 300 metre race sprint) so I am thinking this may be an issue for me with an XL Zero 7 frame.

Anyhow, I hope I can find a bike to ride this weekend. Cause if I ride one, and it feels right, I will be laying down some (well, a lot!!) of cash and going for the Tarmac. Exciting!!!

The all black frame, Roval CLX40s and full DA Di2 group set with seat post battery build is what I am looking at. WIll have to see what bars and stem I go with, probably S-works I guess, but might go Aero bars.

I'll update soon.

Cheers

James

[Pottsy]

(cranks included as the s-works ones may be an issue with vector pedals and clearances) plus apparently the DA chain rings give the best shift performance over the s-works (though I do like the idea of saving 100 grams with the s-works cranks)

S-Works cranks will work with Vectors as long as you get the larger pods.

Dura Ace will give you the best shifting of your life, but if you go with the S-Works crank get Praxis rings instead. They are much stiffer & the shifting is 2nd to Dura Ace.

[Ross]

As for warranty on a Specialised frame set. Its pretty limited.

You pretty much need to buy a frame from a Specialised dealer and have them build the bike for you.

"Specialized warrants to the original owner for the lifetime of the original owner of each new Specialized bicycle or frameset that the bicycle frame or frameset when new is free of defective materials and workmanship. The lifetime Limited Warranty is conditioned upon the bicycle being operated under normal conditions and use, and properly maintained. This Limited Warranty does not apply to paint/finish or components attached to the bicycle/frameset such as front forks, wheels, drive train, brakes, seat post, handlebar and stem, or any suspension related parts or components. Paint/finish, components attached to the bicycle/frameset such as front forks, wheels, drive train, brakes, seat post, handlebar and stem, or any suspension related parts or components are covered under the limited one (1) year warranty. This Limited Warranty is void if the bicycle or frameset was not purchased new or not properly assembled by an authorized Specialized dealer."

This bit - "This Limited Warranty is void if the bicycle or frameset was not purchased new or not properly assembled by an authorized Specialized dealer."

Anyhow, still need to get off my rear and test some bikes. Been so damn busy!!!

See my previous post in this thread regarding warranty. Again I say it sounds like the shop is just trying to drum up business by giving misinformation. I'd advise going to a different shop.
Be wary of "lifetime" warranty too, it's usually capped at 10 years or less.

[Jumma]

Pottsy. Yeah. The s-works look better in the black with the black frame. I have been told that dura ace is best shift and stiffer. Also told about the Praxis and agree with what you say is also second to the new DA.

I am in Sydney now and have been to two spec dealers. One wanted same price as full disc frame with di2 DA for a non disc frame in black with DA di2. Doesn't make any sense to me. I actually said to them, well I may as well buy the top of the line disc bike then if you want 12k for either!!!! Rip off! Should be no more than 10.5k for upgrade of standard DA mech frame with calipers to di2.
The other store will do the 10.5k. So I think i will go with them.

I was also told that most people just buy without riding. But I am going to ride first. It's a lot of $.

Sydney store can arrange a test ride on a 56 and will put pedals to suit my cleats. So tomorrow might try that in the arvo when traffic is quieter.

Ross whichever way. I am happy for shop to build for me. I like the Rovals and I don't think I can do much better if at all with DA Di2. Warranty will probably be void in the end as I do all my own maintenance anyhow it is MUCH cheaper and I have a full workshop setup with all the gear and stands etc.
I think if anything happens with an sworks frame that is not obvious user fault they will come to party.

Cheers

James

[Jumma]

Update!

I finally managed to get a test ride. It wasn't an S-works but an expert, and it was great to ride. Very much my style. It felt aggressive. I think deep down my heart was always set on the S-works Tarmac, the reviews, peoples comments in general, the look of the frame, the geometry and feel all ticked the boxes.

So I have now put down the deposit on a 56 cm 2015 S-works Tarmac frame in the black carbon and black gloss frame set, which will be built up with the Rival SLX40 wheels, full Dura Ace Di2 groupset, S-works AeroFly bars and stem and s-works toupe' seat.

The frame will be here in a couple of weeks.

This is the frame....

http://www.hargrovescycles.co.uk/media/ ... e-2015.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


I was so close to getting the black and white and then even the red/black and gloss white frame as they are all really nice looking frames in the flesh. But I decided to stick to the black carbon as it was my original plan to build with a really top quality frame in black stealth build. I didn't want the specialised and tarmac stickers all over the thing. the black frame has only "S-Works" in gloss black on the down tube, which is nice and low key.

The newer Roval wheels are great quality from what I have heard with DT Swiss free hub mechanisms, did a lot of research and have not heard any real negative feedback on them at all. They are pretty light and stiff from what I am told and read (1375 grams a set). The SLX40's are a good medium profile also.

The build I am looking at should come in at around 6.6 kg with everything, cages etc. except pedals. That's pretty light and should be a reasonably good climber with the combined stiffness, transfer, low weight and light wheels with ceramic bearings.

I am going for full Dura Ace, including the crankset as I believe they are stiffer and shift better than the S-works set.

The Di2 will have the seat mounted battery and is actually a little lighter than the non di2 DA groupset all up!!! I think 2047 grams. Less chance of squeaks later on also!!

I have decided on the Aerofly bars to keep it all S-works and I think I will like the flat section on the top for climbs and when I want to give my hands a break off the hoods and drops.

Anyhow, I will post pictures up when I get it.

Exciting...

James

[Dirty32]

Nice one mate... Sounds like one hell of a bike!
Make sure you keep us updated with those pics.

[Jumma]

Hi Dirty32

I almost forgot to post a pic.

I have had this for a few weeks now. It is an absolute weapon. Very fast and smooth to ride. It is also very comfortable.

40mm carbon Roval SLX-40's. It is fitted with full DA Di2 11 speed 36/52 with 11-28 and sprint shifters on the drops. I also have the S-works Toupe seat in the slimmest fit (black of course) plus the S-works Aero-fly bars, which are great, and comfortable for resting hands on the flat tops during ride and climbs. The bike is supposed to weight around 6.5 kg, but I still need to weigh it yet.

I am loving the DA Di2. I already have the Di2 in ultegra but the DA is just that bit smoother and quieter. This thing is VERY quiet! It is like riding a ghost, no squeaks, no chain noise, or rattles from wiring within the tubes. It is very light but super stiff and rigid, though it is comfortable. The tube shapes are beautiful and it looks better in real life than in photos.



My average pace on rides has also increased 1-2 km/hr average. Not sure what it is - the frame, the weight, the wheel, combination - but I am definitely faster on it. Climbs better than my TCR also.

Some more porn......






Cheers

[Dirty32]

Nice one, Jumma... Very nice!

[Dr.Nate]

Hey Jumma, how are you finding the S works ? I'm about to pull the trigger on a very similar build to yours, with enve 3.4's .. I don't race but enjoy group rides and solo rides so not too stressed about the weight of the bike.. Handling and comfort wise are you happy ? I was going to buy a Roubaix or a Pinerello F8 but feedback from forums and riders out there are that the Tarmac is a do it all machine both fast and comfy..

Quick question is the dura ace di2 crank in PF 86 compatible with the S works BB ?

Thanks again

Dr Nate

[Jumma]

Hi Nate

I am still in love with it.

It is fast, aggressive geometry but I have done a few 120-130 km (AT) 28 kph average speed rides with 2500-3000 m of ascent and descent and found I am still very comfortable on it. it likes to climb, though not as light as some others around, i think the stiffness and geometry really helps offset the weight difference to say a Zero 7.

The bike handles like magic on fast descents. Those 24mm turbos are like super glue. I actually got my fastest ever downhill run back down from a local climb which is about 6-7 km long (AT) 6% average. I hit 96 kph at some points (I know crazy, and not something I will be trying to do often). That is with 52/28 gearing. I have never managed that on my heavier TCR with 52/25, so i think the aero affect of the wheels, bars and position definitely come into it, along with those stiff wheels and sticky tyres.

I have swissstop EVO black prince on mine and they are magic. Only think i could complain about is they are not cheap and they are wearing fast. They stop well though!! Need to be careful in wet, you know, carbon rims and breaking in the wet!!!

I have also had a bit of a position change with this bike as I was apparently glute dominant in my previous position, so I have moved forward and am still getting use to it.

My average rides are a km or so faster compared to my previous efforts for same ride, places. So my solo rides are averaging up around the 32 kph with some climbs included as opposed to around 30 before with the TCR. I am not as fit as i was back then either, i can say for definite - being winter etc.

I would not hesitate to get another S-works Tarmac - it is a brilliant bike, it is smooth, it is fast, it is comfortable ( i love the Aero-fly bars too, comfortable on the hands and I cant go back to standard bars now - spoiled), it looks great.

As for the PF86? Not sure, the 86 from my understanding is the width of the BB. The S-works uses BB30 which i think is 68 wide, so I don't think they are interchangeable - (I'll let someone in the know answer this for you).

The DA Di2 is flawless however. i have the semi, 52/36 with 11-28 at back. I would consider going back to 52/39 or 11-25 at back as I get fitter though as I was always use to 52/39 with 11-25 and it is a bit of an adjustment going semi I feel.

I also have sprint shifters, these are awesome and fun.

I don't know much about the Roubaix, but I think the Tarmac is very comfortable and unless you are riding cobbles, the Roubaix is not necessary. The F8 is expensive, it is a nice looking bike also, however I have heard riding an F8 does not have the same connectivity as a Tarmac or Zero 7 for instance. The zero 7 I have also heard can be a bit flexy in the front end in the larger frame sizes. It is good in the smaller though, i ride with a guy who has a medium frame and he likes it. It is light - I still drop him on climbs though

I'd get a Tarmac, but best is to ride one first. The s-works can be hard to get a test ride on, you may have to settle for a comp etc level.

The enves are very nice. I love the Rovals, they are smooth and easy to look after. They roll fast, good bearings and have stayed very true so far. They brake well with the black prince pads and make a nice sound.

Good luck and let us know how you go.

J

[flashpixx]

Was going to pull the trigger on a Tarmac when I found the Dogma2 with a deal too good to let go.

I rode the S7, and F8 and a Tarmac.

The Tarmac is by far the most comfortable of the three. The F8 is like an F1 car in comparison, harsh, fast, light, but not terribly comfortable. The Zero 7 was also harsher in ride, and didn't fit me like the Tarmac.

Interesting comparing my Dogma2 to the F8, chalk and cheese. Sort of demonstrates the direction Pinarello are heading with the new Dogma

The Dogma2 is much more like a Tarmac, tho lacks perhaps the extra 3 years of development.

If I were replacing the Dogma2 I wouldn't hesitate getting a Tarmac.

[Dr.Nate]

S Works Tarmac 2015 being built up as we speak... Went with dura ace di2 11 speed, enve 3.4 wheels, s works romin saddle and s works shallow bend carbon handlebar.. I dropped off the wheels to the LBS on Friday and explained to them the Christ king r45 hubs on the wheel were 10 speed compatible and that moving to 11 speed might require some conversions. .. They didn't seem too fussed and just said the mechanics would work it out .. I'm sure it requires a conversion of the free hub but wasn't quoted for that.. Hope they don't add it to the quote as I was clear with them from the beginning.. Also hope they use enve brake pads as it voids the warranty for the wheels if not used with those pads.. They seem very relaxed about it all.. I'm sure they know what they doing though..

Should be all done by Friday will post some pics

Thanks for all the advice

Dr Nate

[biker jk]

S Works Tarmac 2015 being built up as we speak... Went with dura ace di2 11 speed, enve 3.4 wheels, s works romin saddle and s works shallow bend carbon handlebar.. I dropped off the wheels to the LBS on Friday and explained to them the Christ king r45 hubs on the wheel were 10 speed compatible and that moving to 11 speed might require some conversions. .. They didn't seem too fussed and just said the mechanics would work it out .. I'm sure it requires a conversion of the free hub but wasn't quoted for that.. Hope they don't add it to the quote as I was clear with them from the beginning.. Also hope they use enve brake pads as it voids the warranty for the wheels if not used with those pads.. They seem very relaxed about it all.. I'm sure they know what they doing though..

Should be all done by Friday will post some pics

Thanks for all the advice

Dr Nate

You will need an 11-speed conversion kit (around $300) and a re-dishing of the wheel.

[Dr.Nate]

Yeah that's what I read .. But what concerns me is the bike shop haven't quoted me for that ..so hopefully it's included in the build cost .. But I doubt it as the build cost quoted was $400

[Jumma]

Where are you getting build done?
I'd recommend the aerofly bars too. They are awesome. But then again this my personal preference.
Look forward to seeing the build.
Not sure with enve but I use the black prince swissstop pads. They are awesome. Wear fast but very good.
Good luck

[Dr.Nate]

It's a specialized concept store in Melbourne .. I like the aero fly bars but my concern is I do some early morning rides and require bigger lights as its stays dark in Melbourne till quite late in the morning.. And with the Aero bars they might not fit on ?

[Jumma]

They have space next to the stem where they go back to normal round. I have no problem with lights. True not as much space but it is doable. I am near Sydney. It is dark early here too and cold ATM. I use a 700 lumen light and flasher.

[Dr.Nate]

Great they have the Aerofly in stock will check them out... Cheers

[Jumma]

I love the bars. So nice to rest hands on when cruising and on climbs and they look hot as lava.
The di2 DA GS is very nice too. You should try get them to throw in the shimano DFly within the seat post area to allow Garmin screen control with the top STI controller buttons and it also gives Di2 battery and current gear to your Garmin 510 edge and upwards. Should be around a 100$ if u have to pay for it.
I'm looking at getting it. But easier if u get as part of build.

[Pottsy]

The Garmin position though.. Why??