Cervelo S3 vs R3 or another TCR?

warthog1
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Re: Cervelo S3 vs R3 or another TCR?

Postby warthog1 » Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:16 pm

BraddAU wrote:Ok. Bit nervous after reading the Cervelo BB issue link. Can anyone verify that this problem is limited to 2012-13 models?

Flashpix, a Pinno could be an option.
Noisy bb's are a problem common to most pressfit bb's I believe.
The bearing cups are an interference fit in the frame and given that is probably the area of the frame that has the most force applied, it is a recipe for creaks and noise. Stupid idea but not limited to cervelo. I wouldn't let that stop you buying a cervelo.
As a positive, IME cervelo as a brand are very good with their warranty support. A feature they have in common with Giant I believe.
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skydance
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Re: Cervelo S3 vs R3 or another TCR?

Postby skydance » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:08 pm

GJM wrote:The Cervelos you refer to are beautiful bikes. The R5 in particular but all the ones you refer to really.
Giants are much better value, but in the context
Just out of curiosity, what Giant model has 'much better value' compared to S3 Ul Di2 or R5 DA Di2?
Most bike stores sell Propel Ul Di2 around $5k (same for S3 Ul Di2).
Can't say for TCR, may be someone knows a good store to try getting TCR DA Di2 for less than 6k?

BraddAU
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Re: Cervelo S3 vs R3 or another TCR?

Postby BraddAU » Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:25 am

Well, thanks to all for the feedback. I have pulled the trigger on a purchase and this is my overview of the journey...

Important note: To qualify my thoughts and findings, my cycling history has been limited to riding two carbon road bikes - a 2010 Merida Ultegra R1 (5000kms) and a 2011 Giant TCR Advanced 1 (28,000kms). I'm sure this info will assist some readers in the same boat as me, and maybe not others. Worth noting... I will say that I know my Giant TCR intimately! I 'Everested' 278km at 9300 vM, and completed an Ironman on the TCR (35kph ave for 180kms - sub 10 hr Ironman) on this bike so we are pretty tight about now... ;)

Mission - to find a comfortable performance bike that could deliver in style and performance - hills/flats (refer to OP).

Test Rides:

I took a 2015 Cervelo R5 (Dura Ace mech) and a 2014 Cervelo S5 (Ultegra mech) out for a serious test ride on the same circuit. The ride involved flats, climbs (peaked at 15%) and importantly for me, crappy road surfaces (!) because that's the world we live in.

Gear consistency: Tyre PSI 100 for both machines. Both bikes had Mavic tyres and wheels (which I don't rate, however, as a control my current TCR has Mavic too).

The first ride of the two was the R5. The R5 had the feistiness/twitchiness of the TCR but was 'moderately' smoother on the ride. I was expecting more comfort/smoothness from this machine based on some reviews, but other online feedback had me thinking my experience was about right in an un-romanced 'real world' situation. My rationale - If you want total power conversion at sub 7kgs on a steep climb, it'll be a stiff ride and will cost you in comfort. Post ride, I did find myself thinking that TCR Advanced owners are getting a lot of R5 for half the price. In saying that, the R5 was was unquestionably superior to my uneducated senses... was it worth $7k plus though? What was better? Ride quality (all terrain) and response under pressure up a hill proved the R5 superior but I was not going to throw down $7.5k for it.

The second ride was the Cervelo S5. It was noticeably more comfortable/smoother than I expected, and more so than my current 2011 Giant TCR Advanced 1. I was well pleased and surprised by this finding, and I found it smoother than the R5. *Both bikes were on mid range Mavic wheels (I have Ksyrium Elite SL on the TCR). I had an instant connection with this bike which was a total shock. Admittedly with the S5 being an aero bike, I went into this ride expecting to be slightly disappointed by the feel, geometry, snappiness and climbing potential off the back of the R5 but I was proven wrong. The R5 opened up at 15% where the S5 became a touch cumbersome, but the S5 was certainly a climber despite weighing in at more than my 4 year old TCR frame.

My purchase - a 2014 Cervelo S5 mechanical Ultegra with Mavic Cosmic wheels (all parts/bike new). The purchase price gave me ample room to move with quality wheels in the near future to conform with my budget (detailed earlier - Dura Ace C35s etc).

After the honeymoon - sun, rain, hills, flats, solo, group:

I love the S5. It's a stunning bike in both ride and design. I'm not a pro but I have a lot of fun on undulating group rides. Last week I got a feel for where this bike is at on two very different rides... in one situation, I felt the challenges of the S5 over a sustained 12% climb and asked myself some tough questions about whether I had made the right decision, and on another ride (an undulating group ride), I 'won' the final 4.5% 1km climbing sprint at an ave speed of 34kph after 2 hours of rolling hills. I seriously doubt that I would have been able to do this previously on my TCR. The acceleration of this bike out of a bunch on a 5% gradient was awesome. This was a satisfying moment!

Ultimately, for me it's about getting out there and being in the moment and i'm really happy with my choice!

*speeds and gradients are only provided so readers can be informed on as to what wattage and gradients I realised my gains. I know these efforts are sedentry for some... that's ok!
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rodneycc
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Re: Cervelo S3 vs R3 or another TCR?

Postby rodneycc » Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:45 am

Great summary mate, thanks for sharing it. I haven't test riden any Cervelo's because they have been out of my price bracket but this certainly would change my mind to at least look at one if I was in the market. Are 25mm tyres an issue with clearance as I have heard they are in some models?
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BraddAU
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Re: Cervelo S3 vs R3 or another TCR?

Postby BraddAU » Sat Apr 18, 2015 10:19 am

rodneycc wrote: Are 25mm tyres an issue with clearance as I have heard they are in some models?
I don't know for sure, but looking at my S5 with the 23s on, there's not much air between the tyre and frame - a few mils. I'd say the 25s would be pushing it, if at all possible.
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Re: Cervelo S3 vs R3 or another TCR?

Postby warthog1 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 10:41 am

I have heard that 25s will fit on the 2015 S5.
My 2012 S5 no. 23mm contis are a tight fit on the rear, they are noticeably taller and wider than 23s from other brands.
Nice work on the sub 10 hr Ironman Brad!
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Cervelo S3 vs R3 or another TCR?

Postby Dr_Mutley » Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:44 pm

BraddAU wrote:
rodneycc wrote: Are 25mm tyres an issue with clearance as I have heard they are in some models?
I don't know for sure, but looking at my S5 with the 23s on, there's not much air between the tyre and frame - a few mils. I'd say the 25s would be pushing it, if at all possible.
I've just seen this thread and I must admit I'm surprised u have gone the 2014 S5, as the S5, especially the 2014 and below are my least favourite of the Cervelo range....

I've owned an R3, an S3, and now have a 2012 S5 VWD, and 2015 R5. I'm not a huge fan of the S5, looks ugly, but it's super quick, and descends like a stone... The killer for this frame is the hideous stack height, and the inability to run 25mm tyres on front or rear. U will also be in this boat as I believe the 2014 frame geo is exactly the same... Cervelo saw the light after much fall out, and dwindling S5 sales, and changed the geo of the 2015 frame into something more decent (ie 20mm less stack height at front, and clearance for tyres). It's why the 2014 S5s are quite cheap atm.

The 2015 R5 on the otherhand still has the silly 580mm stack height for a 56cm frame. Both bikes I have to slam a -17 deg stem on to get lower, and more comfortable. The R5 is the ultimate all round bike though, so if your only going to have one bike, this is the bike I usually recommend. Having said that, the paint on the 2014 R3 is soooo much nicer, Id rather go for one of those. Both R series bikes just handle beautifully. Quick, fast, stiff, and climb really well.

The new S3 is also the bomb....

But, welcome to the cervelo club! U will love your ride, and we expect copious amounts of pics in the cervelo pic gallery!

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Re: Cervelo S3 vs R3 or another TCR?

Postby BraddAU » Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:06 pm

Dr_Mutley wrote: I've just seen this thread and I must admit I'm surprised u have gone the 2014 S5, as the S5, especially the 2014 and below are my least favourite of the Cervelo range....

The new S3 is also the bomb....
Yeah, I love the S5. I've dropped the front and don't want/need 25s. I still have my TCR if i want my ass kicked on a ride by ultra stiff... stiffness. To be honest, I prefer the 2014 S5 design to the 2015 S3 design (aesthetics). Yes, the 2015 S3 is a performer. Whilst opinion is divided on the look of the 2015 R5, I like it. The minimalist hero colour sash is certainly getting around - think Rapha and co.
Last edited by BraddAU on Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cervelo S3 vs R3 or another TCR?

Postby Xplora » Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:57 pm

Yick can you imagine a pink stripe on an S5...

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Re: Cervelo S3 vs R3 or another TCR?

Postby BraddAU » Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:53 pm

Xplora wrote:Yick can you imagine a pink stripe on an S5...
Could be cool... ;)
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Re: Cervelo S3 vs R3 or another TCR?

Postby Dr_Mutley » Sat Apr 18, 2015 10:52 pm

BraddAU wrote:
Dr_Mutley wrote: I've just seen this thread and I must admit I'm surprised u have gone the 2014 S5, as the S5, especially the 2014 and below are my least favourite of the Cervelo range....

The new S3 is also the bomb....
Yeah, I love the S5. I've dropped the front and don't want/need 25s. I still have my TCR if i want my ass kicked on a ride by ultra stiff... stiffness. To be honest, I prefer the 2014 S5 design to the 2015 S3 design (aesthetics). Yes, the 2015 S3 is a performer. Whilst opinion is divided on the look of the 2015 R5, I like it. The minimalist hero colour sash is certainly getting around - think Rapha and co.
Yeah but the 2015 S5's geo is aesthetically much nicer than the 2014 S5. I understand your thoughts on the 25s, but having the choice of running a 25 is nice.... There are plenty of situations u may find running a 25 desirable.... In my situation, battling soreness, or a long 200+km bumpy ride, or taking part in a week long sportive might sway me to putting a 25 on my S5 if I could. Instead I bought a R5 so I could....

U like the red top tube on the R5?! I hate it! I'll be getting mine painted as soon as I get my S5 back on the the road!

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Re: Cervelo S3 vs R3 or another TCR?

Postby BraddAU » Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:56 pm

Dr_Mutley,

I certainly see your point on flexibility. The 2015 S5 is damn sexy too. For me, to then fit Dura Ace wheels to it would throw this option out of my price range, so the 2014 it was.

Re endurance - I've done a few things on the TCR as detailed earlier in this post. I've also ridden the TCR from Adelaide to Melbourne in 3 days via the GOR... with cheap and nasty chamois-less sponsor kit! :( The S5 is noticeably more comfy in any circumstance so i'm sure that i'll enjoy the bike on any ride - the outrageous headwinds that hit us for most of Day 1 en route to Robe would have been nicer on the S5!

The Red top tube on the R5... Yeah, I get it. I'm not offended by it at all. If I were to custom my design it however, (as Trek allow on their Emonda) I'd keep the machine all grey with small red and white references (primarily through the brand placement). Maybe some white inner forks - not straying from their previous formula. The matt grey paint job is stunning in the flesh IMO
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Re: Cervelo S3 vs R3 or another TCR?

Postby queequeg » Mon Apr 20, 2015 12:36 am

I just went for an S3 over an S5, mostly because the S5 was a bit aggressive for me, and the cost put all but the bottom version out of reach. On the flip side, I now have a Di2 S3, and since I am coming from a steel road bike and have never ridden carbon, I'll be none the wiser :-)
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '16 Cervelo R5, '18 Mason BokekTi

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Re: Cervelo S3 vs R3 or another TCR?

Postby Dr_Mutley » Mon Apr 20, 2015 12:59 am

queequeg wrote:I just went for an S3 over an S5, mostly because the S5 was a bit aggressive for me, and the cost put all but the bottom version out of reach. On the flip side, I now have a Di2 S3, and since I am coming from a steel road bike and have never ridden carbon, I'll be none the wiser :-)
Love the S3! U will enjoy it, especially with Di2!

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Re: Cervelo S3 vs R3 or another TCR?

Postby BraddAU » Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:14 am

queequeg wrote:since I am coming from a steel road bike and have never ridden carbon, I'll be none the wiser :-)
Nice one! You've got a fast responsive ride that is more comfortable than you may ever know ;)
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Re: Cervelo S3 vs R3 or another TCR?

Postby queequeg » Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:49 am

BraddAU wrote:
queequeg wrote:since I am coming from a steel road bike and have never ridden carbon, I'll be none the wiser :-)
Nice one! You've got a fast responsive ride that is more comfortable than you may ever know ;)
Just got a call from the lbs. Cervelo has stuffed up and doesn't have an S3 in my size. Waiting to see what the options are as they scramble for a solution.
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Re: Cervelo S3 vs R3 or another TCR?

Postby Xplora » Mon Apr 20, 2015 12:19 pm

Interesting times!

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Re: Cervelo S3 vs R3 or another TCR?

Postby queequeg » Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:13 pm

Xplora wrote:Interesting times!
Hot off the press: you will now be seeing me on an S5 with matching Matte Black shoes & helmet :-)
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Re: Cervelo S3 vs R3 or another TCR?

Postby biker jk » Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:31 pm

queequeg wrote:
Xplora wrote:Interesting times!
Hot off the press: you will now be seeing me on an S5 with matching Matte Black shoes & helmet :-)
Which groupset? Mavic wheels?

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Re: Cervelo S3 vs R3 or another TCR?

Postby queequeg » Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:32 pm

Ultegra Mech with the stock Cosmic Elite S wheels.
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Re: Cervelo S3 vs R3 or another TCR?

Postby Xplora » Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:03 pm

Sweeeeeeeeeeet

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Re: Cervelo S3 vs R3 or another TCR?

Postby rusty842 » Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:28 pm

Pics?

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Re: Cervelo S3 vs R3 or another TCR?

Postby queequeg » Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:44 pm

rusty842 wrote:Pics?
I pick it up on Saturday
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Re: Cervelo S3 vs R3 or another TCR?

Postby BraddAU » Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:52 pm

queequeg wrote: Hot off the press: you will now be seeing me on an S5 with matching Matte Black shoes & helmet :-)
Well done. You'll love it! :D
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Re: Cervelo S3 vs R3 or another TCR?

Postby Dr_Mutley » Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:32 am

Huh? Doesn't the S5s come with HEDs as stock?

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