Shoes
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Shoes
Postby peanutz » Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:45 pm
LBS suggested that I get a pair of road shoes. However, my research shows that MTB shoes would be more appropriate for commuting. I have tried Shimano, Bontrager, Garneau and Giro(?) shoes in 36 and they are all still a bit big for me. Considering Sidi is notorius for being smaller than others in the same size, I am now considering Sidi shoes. I have 2 options: Eagle (MTB) or Genius (Road). Pricewise, Eagle is cheaper by $30. Sizewise, I am not sure. LBS seems to want to order in just one pair for me to try. I'm thinking perhaps I should start off with the MTB ones for ease of use and walkability. What do you think?
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Re: Shoes
Postby MickMelb » Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:41 pm
As far as sizing - I've found Sidi to be pretty much true to size but I have a narrower foot. Giro is generally a brand where you would size up by at least one size which means that Giro should be worth checking out.
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Re: Shoes
Postby queequeg » Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:08 pm
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Re: Shoes
Postby rogerrabbit » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:50 pm
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Shoes
Postby yugyug » Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:25 pm
Security is a subjective feeling. Maybe, if that's what you like. Along with it comes the risk of clip stacks and the inability to start quickly and keep pace with cars taking off from lights. .
The latter negates any efficiency gains you may have, but might not have, when using foot retention when commuting.
If by security you refer to a possible danger of having a foot slip of the pedal, that's easily addressed by a spiky platform and pretty much any shoe other than a dress shoe. Even then, it's not much of a risk. I've never done it with any consequence in 20 years of riding as an adult (most of that but not all of that without foot retention).
Contrast that proposed risk with the advantage of being able to instantaneously put your foot down in an unforeseen situation and the advantage of not riding slowly and wobbling all over the place when the lights turn green, at the precise moment motorists want an opportunity to overtake you.
I acknowledge that's not a problem for experienced riders, who clip in smoothly and control the lane when needed, but it is the inexperienced riders who expose themselves more to the disadvantages of foot retention, especially when commuting. I'm not referring to the OP with that statement, I don't know the level of his or her skill. But I stand by my recommendation to reconsider clips when they have so few advantages, even for experienced commuters.
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Re: Shoes
Postby KGB » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:36 pm
I understand the concern for rookies but i honestly don't remember having any clip stacks ever. Set the pedal tension to low so it's easier to release in an emergency if needed.
Practice, practice, practice. I am a roadie and just started racing CX last year. I'd say I'm confident clipping in but a race start is another game entirely!
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Shoes
Postby yugyug » Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:46 pm
My concern is those cyclists who don't race and who mainly cycle for commuting or pleasure and can't exploit those small gains and don't need them, but still get spun the same hype that makes them think foot retention is essential - thereby exposing themselves to injury, not to mention the general inconvenience and cost of wearing cycle specific shoes.
We can easily guess why companies make and promote such shoes and pedals and why shops try to push them on customers.
Should we do the same amongst ourselves? Or have a rational discussion of their advantages and disadvantages compared to platform pedals?
There is far too much privilege given to clips from cycling enthusiasts and its importance the reasonable alternative gets heard.
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Re: Shoes
Postby KGB » Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:52 pm
I will say that I think the benefits are there and clipless pedals are worth at least TRYING for those who have a decent commute and are more concerned about getting where theyre going rather than just enjoying the ride.
Unfortunately, I also recognise "trying" them can be a costly exercise. I've got no solution there!
Now that I think of it, I had plenty of piddly little clip stacks when I first went to clipless pedals offroad. Couldn't get used to the slightly different action to my road pedals and would touch down several times per ride in the technical bits. After a couple of rides I went back to platforms and sold those spd's. I'm not sure what changed but I currently have two more sets of virtually the same spd pedals on my commuter and my cx bike. No problems at all.
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Re: Shoes
Postby zero » Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:19 pm
It makes no difference to efficiency unless you are trying extremely hard, and then only tiny amounts. Its enough to split two equal riders in a bike race, but every time you clip in, you miss the second downstroke accelerating away from the lights which for most commuters should pretty much cancel any gains.rogerrabbit wrote:Believe the hype. Pedalling is much easier and more efficient with clips, and more secure.
I like being clipped in for the simple reason that I ride rain, hail or shine, and on wet days my feet slip on pedals - many commuters don't ride on wet days, they don't have that problem, and of the ones that do, few of them probably adopt a cadence anything near as high as mine (root cause for my feet slipping).
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Re: Shoes
Postby hugh stone » Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:03 am
Depends on the nature of your commute.
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Re: Shoes
Postby queequeg » Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:09 am
My feet would slip off the pedals as soon as there was any moisture in the air, or the bottom of my shoes got wet for any reason.
One time I slipped whilst moving off the lights and I basically got my saddle to the groin, and boy did that hurt!
At the suggestion of some other commuters, I went to SPD pedals with MTB shoes and I have not looked back. I find riding without cleats to be a little weird, but that is probably because I spend so much time on the bike with them.
The issues mentioned above about accelerating away from lights and wobbling about really just come down to experience. The cleats are second nature to me, and I don't even think about it. In fact, it is so natural for me that I just put my foot on the pedal on the top of the stroke and push down, and I clip in whilst providing power. I rarely miss. I use double sided pedals to avoid any mucking about trying to get the pedal right side up.
Oh yes, and bunny hopping obstacles is much easier with cleats
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Re: Shoes
Postby peanutz » Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:35 am
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Re: Shoes
Postby cyclotaur » Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:47 pm
Excellent shoes, far better than road shoes in most everyday situations.MoeJoe wrote:If you want a roadie looking shoe but with spd's then the Shimano RT82 touring shoe should be on your list.
You can still walking around in them much easier than spd-sl shoes.
My old blog - A bit of fun
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Re: Shoes
Postby yugyug » Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:42 pm
I used to think so too - or at least that it was much more difficult with retention, but then I saw this video:kb wrote:Much easier to bunny hop when tied to your pedals though
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df8TVTQyNk8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The wrist trick was the missing thing for me that stopped me from getting my back wheel up. Works great, even on my town bike, I jump manhole covers just for fun.
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Re: Shoes
Postby foo on patrol » Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:57 pm
Show me that data!I ride occasionally to the shops without my real pedals and I would much rather ride with proper road pedals. If you are going to ride at speeds of 20kmh then flats are ok but give me a break, at speeds above that, you are always chasing you position on the pedals.yugyug wrote:It's only more efficient, around 3 to 5 percent, if you already have good pedaling technique, which some riders don't have because they don't practice on platforms.
Security is a subjective feeling. Maybe, if that's what you like. Along with it comes the risk of clip stacks and the inability to start quickly and keep pace with cars taking off from lights. .
The latter negates any efficiency gains you may have, but might not have, when using foot retention when commuting.
If by security you refer to a possible danger of having a foot slip of the pedal, that's easily addressed by a spiky platform and pretty much any shoe other than a dress shoe. Even then, it's not much of a risk. I've never done it with any consequence in 20 years of riding as an adult (most of that but not all of that without foot retention).
Contrast that proposed risk with the advantage of being able to instantaneously put your foot down in an unforeseen situation and the advantage of not riding slowly and wobbling all over the place when the lights turn green, at the precise moment motorists want an opportunity to overtake you.
I acknowledge that's not a problem for experienced riders, who clip in smoothly and control the lane when needed, but it is the inexperienced riders who expose themselves more to the disadvantages of foot retention, especially when commuting. I'm not referring to the OP with that statement, I don't know the level of his or her skill. But I stand by my recommendation to reconsider clips when they have so few advantages, even for experienced commuters.
I will run you into the ground from the lights after the first 20mtrs with my feet locked in and in wet weather you feet are stable. nothing worse than slipping off and wearing the pedal up your shin.
If you are worried about clip stacks, wind your bloody adjustment off, it really isn't that hard. My son rode for the first time with real road shoes a couple of weeks ago and after I told him how to do things, he has never had a drama!
Foo
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Re: Shoes
Postby trailgumby » Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:05 pm
That's a confidence thing. I had plenty of silly clipstacks when I first started riding off-road, despite having had none while commuting. I got fed up with banking my elbows on rocks so bought myself some elbow and forearm pads.KGB wrote:Sure, I hear you mate. If people are happy riding flats then thats cool by me.
I will say that I think the benefits are there and clipless pedals are worth at least TRYING for those who have a decent commute and are more concerned about getting where theyre going rather than just enjoying the ride.
Unfortunately, I also recognise "trying" them can be a costly exercise. I've got no solution there!
Now that I think of it, I had plenty of piddly little clip stacks when I first went to clipless pedals offroad. Couldn't get used to the slightly different action to my road pedals and would touch down several times per ride in the technical bits. After a couple of rides I went back to platforms and sold those spd's. I'm not sure what changed but I currently have two more sets of virtually the same spd pedals on my commuter and my cx bike. No problems at all.
And then, for some unknown reason, the clipstacks stopped completely.
Actually, I do know what the reason was. That little seed of doubt and fear about what would happen disappeared, and I was able to focus on what I was negotiating and how to do it, rather than the hurties I would experience if i got it wrong. It was all about what was going on between my ears.
Now I don't use pads and in fact I feel insecure and filled with dread if I *don't* have my feet clipped in off-road.
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Re: Shoes
Postby yugyug » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:06 am
That figure is from James Wilson's Flat Pedal Revolution Manifesto PDF, page 34. He bases his analysis on Korff et al. from Med Sci Sports Exerc 2007; 39:991-99 and Mornieux et al. from Int J Sports Med 2008; 29:817-822. On pages 7 to 15 he uses these studies to explain how this efficiency is dependent on a good pedalling technique best learnt on flat pedals.foo on patrol wrote:Show me that data!yugyug wrote:It's only more efficient, around 3 to 5 percent, if you already have good pedaling technique, which some riders don't have because they don't practice on platforms.
.
That's just not true, I ride well above 20kmh most of the time, and I don't need to reposition my feet on the pedal unless I want to. That's actually an advantage of the platform pedal, on longer rides you can move you position around on the pedal to avoid repetitive strain. For example, moving to a more mid-foot position to relieve your calf if its about to cramp.I ride occasionally to the shops without my real pedals and I would much rather ride with proper road pedals. If you are going to ride at speeds of 20kmh then flats are ok but give me a break, at speeds above that, you are always chasing you position on the pedals.
What happens with a lot of the commuters I pass is they never recover from their delay clipping in at one set of lights to make the green on the next set of lights. Bye bye.I will run you into the ground from the lights after the first 20mtrs with my feet locked in and in wet weather you feet are stable. nothing worse than slipping off and wearing the pedal up your shin.
I really don't know what all this concern is about slipping of the pedal - how can that happen so much? Use a spiky pedal and a grippy soled shoes and it just won't happen, in the wet or otherwise. All you guys talking about security and feeling connected remind me of chicks in a tampon commercial.
It's not me personally that's worried about clip stacks, I've used foot retention in the past. I don't use it now cos its just a hassle with lots of negatives and few rewards.If you are worried about clip stacks, wind your bloody adjustment off, it really isn't that hard. My son rode for the first time with real road shoes a couple of weeks ago and after I told him how to do things, he has never had a drama!
What I'm really concerned about are other people having clip stacks, and in traffic, because every knowledgeable cyclist they have spoken to has said clips are the only way to go. So for example, I'm talking about people in their 40s new or coming back to cycling who just don't need the risk they present when being learnt. In the case of the OP we maybe don't know anything about his age, ability or riding scenario, but most here seem to just accept that clip pedals will be ok for him, just like the shops do. He's decided to go ahead and try them, good for him, but at least he heard a counter proposition beforehand.
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Re: Shoes
Postby yugyug » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:06 pm
Not really. If u read the original post it was about selecting the right kind of shoe, after the LBS had proposed clip in road shoes. That shops do that without due concern for the rider or without proposing flats as an alternative is the subtext of my posts.flashpixx wrote:
fortunately it's not all 'bout you
the post was about shoe sizing... I think
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Re: Shoes
Postby Top_Bhoy » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:36 pm
I agree but I'm not sure why it has been mentioned but age has got nothing to do with the capability of a person to use clipless or not. The bike handling abilities of the individual is the more pertinent factor as it gives confidence to the individual. Once they have that confidence (which may be immediately or take several months depending on the individual), then is the time to introduce other pedal systems for them to try. The most important thing is for people not to be pressured into using a pedal system that they are not comfortable with; particularly within an urban environment where there is likely to be heavy traffic and frequent stop/starting.yugyug wrote:I'm talking about people in their 40s new or coming back to cycling who just don't need the risk they present when being learnt.
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Re: Shoes
Postby ldrcycles » Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:14 am
Just use SPD pedals with a cage like A520s and you get the best of every world. The benefits of clipless with super easy disengagement, virtually the same support as SPD SL with indestructible cleats, and you can get SPD compatible shoes that look like ordinary runners.
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Re: Shoes
Postby DavidS » Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:12 pm
As for shoes, why bother with some road or MTB shoe when you can get something stylish?
Available from Same Same but Different, order a size larger than usual as they are a little small. But they are nice.
Or you can go upmarket:
Pricey but I'm tempted. Available from Dromati.com
DS
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