Shoes

peanutz
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:37 pm

Shoes

Postby peanutz » Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:45 pm

Well, I bought a new road bike for commuting and weekend ride and am in the process of buying a pair of cycling shoes. Now, the problem is I have small feet; hence, never bother getting a pair of cycling shoes. Shoes shopping in general is hard enough.

LBS suggested that I get a pair of road shoes. However, my research shows that MTB shoes would be more appropriate for commuting. I have tried Shimano, Bontrager, Garneau and Giro(?) shoes in 36 and they are all still a bit big for me. Considering Sidi is notorius for being smaller than others in the same size, I am now considering Sidi shoes. I have 2 options: Eagle (MTB) or Genius (Road). Pricewise, Eagle is cheaper by $30. Sizewise, I am not sure. LBS seems to want to order in just one pair for me to try. I'm thinking perhaps I should start off with the MTB ones for ease of use and walkability. What do you think?

MickMelb
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:30 pm
Location: Camberwell - South Melb -

Re: Shoes

Postby MickMelb » Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:41 pm

Yes MTB are def way to go and what I use for my commuter. Reasons ...MTB shoes are easier to walk around in + you can use double sided pedal that is easier to clip into during journey that may have stops and starts in traffic. I find the SPD pedal failsafe to clip into. SPD-SL I miss one time in three or four.

As far as sizing - I've found Sidi to be pretty much true to size but I have a narrower foot. Giro is generally a brand where you would size up by at least one size which means that Giro should be worth checking out.

User avatar
queequeg
Posts: 6479
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:09 am

Re: Shoes

Postby queequeg » Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:08 pm

You can also get road SPD shoes, which Shimano calls Road Touring shoes. The models are RT-XX. I have some RT-31 shoes. Same advantage of the MT shoes but with less bulk. I use MT-42 shoes primarily on my commuter, and the RT shoes on the road bike. If one pair gets wet I can easily swap without swapping cleats.
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '16 Cervelo R5, '18 Mason BokekTi

User avatar
yugyug
Posts: 1826
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:27 am
Location: Sydney

Shoes

Postby yugyug » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:40 pm

I think you should use platform pedals and then use any shoe you want. Foot retention isn't needed for commuting, for that kind of cycling it has more disadvantages than advantages. Don't believe the hype.

rogerrabbit
Posts: 1219
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:12 pm
Location: Seaforth

Re: Shoes

Postby rogerrabbit » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:50 pm

Believe the hype. Pedalling is much easier and more efficient with clips, and more secure.

User avatar
yugyug
Posts: 1826
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:27 am
Location: Sydney

Shoes

Postby yugyug » Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:25 pm

It's only more efficient, around 3 to 5 percent, if you already have good pedaling technique, which some riders don't have because they don't practice on platforms.

Security is a subjective feeling. Maybe, if that's what you like. Along with it comes the risk of clip stacks and the inability to start quickly and keep pace with cars taking off from lights. .

The latter negates any efficiency gains you may have, but might not have, when using foot retention when commuting.

If by security you refer to a possible danger of having a foot slip of the pedal, that's easily addressed by a spiky platform and pretty much any shoe other than a dress shoe. Even then, it's not much of a risk. I've never done it with any consequence in 20 years of riding as an adult (most of that but not all of that without foot retention).

Contrast that proposed risk with the advantage of being able to instantaneously put your foot down in an unforeseen situation and the advantage of not riding slowly and wobbling all over the place when the lights turn green, at the precise moment motorists want an opportunity to overtake you.

I acknowledge that's not a problem for experienced riders, who clip in smoothly and control the lane when needed, but it is the inexperienced riders who expose themselves more to the disadvantages of foot retention, especially when commuting. I'm not referring to the OP with that statement, I don't know the level of his or her skill. But I stand by my recommendation to reconsider clips when they have so few advantages, even for experienced commuters.

User avatar
KGB
Posts: 1629
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:49 pm

Re: Shoes

Postby KGB » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:36 pm

I commute 25km each way and i guess i am experienced after racing for 25 or so years but i would never bother rising anything more than to the shops without being clipped in. Sooooo much better.

I understand the concern for rookies but i honestly don't remember having any clip stacks ever. Set the pedal tension to low so it's easier to release in an emergency if needed.
Practice, practice, practice. I am a roadie and just started racing CX last year. I'd say I'm confident clipping in but a race start is another game entirely!
Image

User avatar
yugyug
Posts: 1826
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:27 am
Location: Sydney

Shoes

Postby yugyug » Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:46 pm

KGB you are the kind of rider with a racing history who can exploit the small performance gains of foot retention, and you're accustomed to it enough so that's it's suitable for commuting. That's fine.

My concern is those cyclists who don't race and who mainly cycle for commuting or pleasure and can't exploit those small gains and don't need them, but still get spun the same hype that makes them think foot retention is essential - thereby exposing themselves to injury, not to mention the general inconvenience and cost of wearing cycle specific shoes.

We can easily guess why companies make and promote such shoes and pedals and why shops try to push them on customers.

Should we do the same amongst ourselves? Or have a rational discussion of their advantages and disadvantages compared to platform pedals?

There is far too much privilege given to clips from cycling enthusiasts and its importance the reasonable alternative gets heard.

User avatar
KGB
Posts: 1629
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:49 pm

Re: Shoes

Postby KGB » Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:52 pm

Sure, I hear you mate. If people are happy riding flats then thats cool by me.
I will say that I think the benefits are there and clipless pedals are worth at least TRYING for those who have a decent commute and are more concerned about getting where theyre going rather than just enjoying the ride.
Unfortunately, I also recognise "trying" them can be a costly exercise. I've got no solution there!

Now that I think of it, I had plenty of piddly little clip stacks when I first went to clipless pedals offroad. Couldn't get used to the slightly different action to my road pedals and would touch down several times per ride in the technical bits. After a couple of rides I went back to platforms and sold those spd's. I'm not sure what changed but I currently have two more sets of virtually the same spd pedals on my commuter and my cx bike. No problems at all.
Image

zero
Posts: 3056
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:54 pm

Re: Shoes

Postby zero » Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:19 pm

rogerrabbit wrote:Believe the hype. Pedalling is much easier and more efficient with clips, and more secure.
It makes no difference to efficiency unless you are trying extremely hard, and then only tiny amounts. Its enough to split two equal riders in a bike race, but every time you clip in, you miss the second downstroke accelerating away from the lights which for most commuters should pretty much cancel any gains.

I like being clipped in for the simple reason that I ride rain, hail or shine, and on wet days my feet slip on pedals - many commuters don't ride on wet days, they don't have that problem, and of the ones that do, few of them probably adopt a cadence anything near as high as mine (root cause for my feet slipping).

User avatar
kb
Posts: 2570
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:22 pm

Re: Shoes

Postby kb » Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:34 am

Much easier to bunny hop when tied to your pedals though :-)
Image

User avatar
hugh stone
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:53 am
Location: Sydney, New South Wales

Re: Shoes

Postby hugh stone » Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:03 am

For someone like me with a 37km commute each way clip less is a must. However your commute is 2km with red lights every 100m, flats probably make sense.
Depends on the nature of your commute.

User avatar
queequeg
Posts: 6479
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:09 am

Re: Shoes

Postby queequeg » Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:09 am

When I started out commuting about 6 years ago, I was just riding with the awful pedals that came on the bike, plus some old jogging shoes.
My feet would slip off the pedals as soon as there was any moisture in the air, or the bottom of my shoes got wet for any reason.
One time I slipped whilst moving off the lights and I basically got my saddle to the groin, and boy did that hurt!

At the suggestion of some other commuters, I went to SPD pedals with MTB shoes and I have not looked back. I find riding without cleats to be a little weird, but that is probably because I spend so much time on the bike with them.

The issues mentioned above about accelerating away from lights and wobbling about really just come down to experience. The cleats are second nature to me, and I don't even think about it. In fact, it is so natural for me that I just put my foot on the pedal on the top of the stroke and push down, and I clip in whilst providing power. I rarely miss. I use double sided pedals to avoid any mucking about trying to get the pedal right side up.

Oh yes, and bunny hopping obstacles is much easier with cleats :-)
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '16 Cervelo R5, '18 Mason BokekTi

peanutz
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:37 pm

Re: Shoes

Postby peanutz » Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:35 am

OK, some say it's a hype and some say otherwise. I say I'd like to try it :) I've been riding with platform for so long. I bought a road bike because I want to try it. I started off with a mtb, then a flat bar road bike but still curious to know what a road bike feels like so I bought it. As for cycling shoes and clips, I've decided to start off with mtb shoes for now and see how I go. Thanks for all the feedback.

User avatar
MoeJoe
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:24 pm
Location: South Western Suburbia near M7

Re: Shoes

Postby MoeJoe » Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:55 pm

If you want a roadie looking shoe but with spd's then the Shimano RT82 touring shoe should be on your list.

You can still walking around in them much easier than spd-sl shoes.

User avatar
cyclotaur
Posts: 1782
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:36 pm

Re: Shoes

Postby cyclotaur » Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:47 pm

MoeJoe wrote:If you want a roadie looking shoe but with spd's then the Shimano RT82 touring shoe should be on your list.

You can still walking around in them much easier than spd-sl shoes.
Excellent shoes, far better than road shoes in most everyday situations.
2023 Target: 9.500kms/100,000m
My old blog - A bit of fun :)
"Riding, not racing...completing, not competing"

User avatar
yugyug
Posts: 1826
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:27 am
Location: Sydney

Re: Shoes

Postby yugyug » Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:42 pm

kb wrote:Much easier to bunny hop when tied to your pedals though :-)
I used to think so too - or at least that it was much more difficult with retention, but then I saw this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df8TVTQyNk8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The wrist trick was the missing thing for me that stopped me from getting my back wheel up. Works great, even on my town bike, I jump manhole covers just for fun.

User avatar
foo on patrol
Posts: 9008
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:12 am
Location: Sanstone Point QLD

Re: Shoes

Postby foo on patrol » Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:57 pm

yugyug wrote:It's only more efficient, around 3 to 5 percent, if you already have good pedaling technique, which some riders don't have because they don't practice on platforms.

Security is a subjective feeling. Maybe, if that's what you like. Along with it comes the risk of clip stacks and the inability to start quickly and keep pace with cars taking off from lights. .

The latter negates any efficiency gains you may have, but might not have, when using foot retention when commuting.

If by security you refer to a possible danger of having a foot slip of the pedal, that's easily addressed by a spiky platform and pretty much any shoe other than a dress shoe. Even then, it's not much of a risk. I've never done it with any consequence in 20 years of riding as an adult (most of that but not all of that without foot retention).

Contrast that proposed risk with the advantage of being able to instantaneously put your foot down in an unforeseen situation and the advantage of not riding slowly and wobbling all over the place when the lights turn green, at the precise moment motorists want an opportunity to overtake you.

I acknowledge that's not a problem for experienced riders, who clip in smoothly and control the lane when needed, but it is the inexperienced riders who expose themselves more to the disadvantages of foot retention, especially when commuting. I'm not referring to the OP with that statement, I don't know the level of his or her skill. But I stand by my recommendation to reconsider clips when they have so few advantages, even for experienced commuters.
Show me that data!I ride occasionally to the shops without my real pedals and I would much rather ride with proper road pedals. If you are going to ride at speeds of 20kmh then flats are ok but give me a break, at speeds above that, you are always chasing you position on the pedals. :wink:

I will run you into the ground from the lights after the first 20mtrs with my feet locked in and in wet weather you feet are stable. nothing worse than slipping off and wearing the pedal up your shin. :roll:

If you are worried about clip stacks, wind your bloody adjustment off, it really isn't that hard. :idea: My son rode for the first time with real road shoes a couple of weeks ago and after I told him how to do things, he has never had a drama! :wink:

Foo
I don't suffer fools easily and so long as you have done your best,you should have no regrets.
Goal 6000km

User avatar
trailgumby
Posts: 15469
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:30 pm
Location: Northern Beaches, Sydney
Contact:

Re: Shoes

Postby trailgumby » Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:05 pm

KGB wrote:Sure, I hear you mate. If people are happy riding flats then thats cool by me.
I will say that I think the benefits are there and clipless pedals are worth at least TRYING for those who have a decent commute and are more concerned about getting where theyre going rather than just enjoying the ride.
Unfortunately, I also recognise "trying" them can be a costly exercise. I've got no solution there!

Now that I think of it, I had plenty of piddly little clip stacks when I first went to clipless pedals offroad. Couldn't get used to the slightly different action to my road pedals and would touch down several times per ride in the technical bits. After a couple of rides I went back to platforms and sold those spd's. I'm not sure what changed but I currently have two more sets of virtually the same spd pedals on my commuter and my cx bike. No problems at all.
That's a confidence thing. I had plenty of silly clipstacks when I first started riding off-road, despite having had none while commuting. I got fed up with banking my elbows on rocks so bought myself some elbow and forearm pads.

And then, for some unknown reason, the clipstacks stopped completely. :lol:

Actually, I do know what the reason was. That little seed of doubt and fear about what would happen disappeared, and I was able to focus on what I was negotiating and how to do it, rather than the hurties I would experience if i got it wrong. It was all about what was going on between my ears.

Now I don't use pads and in fact I feel insecure and filled with dread if I *don't* have my feet clipped in off-road.

User avatar
yugyug
Posts: 1826
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:27 am
Location: Sydney

Re: Shoes

Postby yugyug » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:06 am

foo on patrol wrote:
yugyug wrote:It's only more efficient, around 3 to 5 percent, if you already have good pedaling technique, which some riders don't have because they don't practice on platforms.
.
Show me that data!
That figure is from James Wilson's Flat Pedal Revolution Manifesto PDF, page 34. He bases his analysis on Korff et al. from Med Sci Sports Exerc 2007; 39:991-99 and Mornieux et al. from Int J Sports Med 2008; 29:817-822. On pages 7 to 15 he uses these studies to explain how this efficiency is dependent on a good pedalling technique best learnt on flat pedals.
I ride occasionally to the shops without my real pedals and I would much rather ride with proper road pedals. If you are going to ride at speeds of 20kmh then flats are ok but give me a break, at speeds above that, you are always chasing you position on the pedals. :wink:
That's just not true, I ride well above 20kmh most of the time, and I don't need to reposition my feet on the pedal unless I want to. That's actually an advantage of the platform pedal, on longer rides you can move you position around on the pedal to avoid repetitive strain. For example, moving to a more mid-foot position to relieve your calf if its about to cramp.
I will run you into the ground from the lights after the first 20mtrs with my feet locked in and in wet weather you feet are stable. nothing worse than slipping off and wearing the pedal up your shin. :roll:
What happens with a lot of the commuters I pass is they never recover from their delay clipping in at one set of lights to make the green on the next set of lights. Bye bye. ;)

I really don't know what all this concern is about slipping of the pedal - how can that happen so much? Use a spiky pedal and a grippy soled shoes and it just won't happen, in the wet or otherwise. All you guys talking about security and feeling connected remind me of chicks in a tampon commercial.
If you are worried about clip stacks, wind your bloody adjustment off, it really isn't that hard. :idea: My son rode for the first time with real road shoes a couple of weeks ago and after I told him how to do things, he has never had a drama! :wink:
It's not me personally that's worried about clip stacks, I've used foot retention in the past. I don't use it now cos its just a hassle with lots of negatives and few rewards.

What I'm really concerned about are other people having clip stacks, and in traffic, because every knowledgeable cyclist they have spoken to has said clips are the only way to go. So for example, I'm talking about people in their 40s new or coming back to cycling who just don't need the risk they present when being learnt. In the case of the OP we maybe don't know anything about his age, ability or riding scenario, but most here seem to just accept that clip pedals will be ok for him, just like the shops do. He's decided to go ahead and try them, good for him, but at least he heard a counter proposition beforehand.

User avatar
flashpixx
Posts: 746
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:04 pm
Location: Maylands WA

Re: Shoes

Postby flashpixx » Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:30 pm

yugyug wrote: blah blah.....
fortunately it's not all 'bout you :) :)

the post was about shoe sizing... I think :?
Gordon

Riding: Trek Domane SLR 7

User avatar
yugyug
Posts: 1826
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:27 am
Location: Sydney

Re: Shoes

Postby yugyug » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:06 pm

flashpixx wrote:
fortunately it's not all 'bout you :) :)

the post was about shoe sizing... I think :?
Not really. If u read the original post it was about selecting the right kind of shoe, after the LBS had proposed clip in road shoes. That shops do that without due concern for the rider or without proposing flats as an alternative is the subtext of my posts.

Top_Bhoy
Posts: 509
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:19 pm

Re: Shoes

Postby Top_Bhoy » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:36 pm

yugyug wrote:I'm talking about people in their 40s new or coming back to cycling who just don't need the risk they present when being learnt.
I agree but I'm not sure why it has been mentioned but age has got nothing to do with the capability of a person to use clipless or not. The bike handling abilities of the individual is the more pertinent factor as it gives confidence to the individual. Once they have that confidence (which may be immediately or take several months depending on the individual), then is the time to introduce other pedal systems for them to try. The most important thing is for people not to be pressured into using a pedal system that they are not comfortable with; particularly within an urban environment where there is likely to be heavy traffic and frequent stop/starting.

User avatar
ldrcycles
Posts: 9594
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:19 pm
Location: Kin Kin, Queensland

Re: Shoes

Postby ldrcycles » Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:14 am

I've commuted in runners and steel cap work boots, and did ~90kms in runners once when i had no other option. Normal shoes are not made for riding, can be done but you will be SO much more comfortable with shoes that are made for the job.

Just use SPD pedals with a cage like A520s and you get the best of every world. The benefits of clipless with super easy disengagement, virtually the same support as SPD SL with indestructible cleats, and you can get SPD compatible shoes that look like ordinary runners.
"I must be rather keen on cycling"- Sir Hubert Opperman.

Road Record Association of Australia

User avatar
DavidS
Posts: 3631
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:24 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: Shoes

Postby DavidS » Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:12 pm

Well I only ride to commute and I'm still in my 40s and only started riding again about 5 years ago and I must say I find using clips to be a big benefit. Guaranteed foot position on the pedal, no slipping etc. I haven't had a clipstack since moving to clips. I did wind back the tightness on the pedals when I first got them and don't have the pedals very tight even now.

As for shoes, why bother with some road or MTB shoe when you can get something stylish?

Image

Image

Available from Same Same but Different, order a size larger than usual as they are a little small. But they are nice.

Or you can go upmarket:

Image

Image

Pricey but I'm tempted. Available from Dromati.com

DS
Allegro T1, Auren Swift :)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: blkmcs, Google Adsense [Bot]