Was he having a lend of me? Hed Belgium + for $700

[DaveQB]

Hi,

Got a crack in my rear wheel, so hunting around for information and deals on wheels. One shop today, in the city (Sydney), that I visited mentioned they had a hand built wheel set that they managed to put together cheaply due to luck buying parts.

The set includes:

- Shimano 105 hubs
- Hed Belgium+ rims
- 32 spokes which I didn't catch any name on.

The set for $700. He was saying it was a great deal and if they bought the parts in again it would cost a lot more. He weighed the set in front of me and they were 2.0-2.1 kg

He pushed that wheelset so hard, I was sceptical. I mean, they didn't look anything special, but I am new to cycling so don't know.
Looking online, the rims are ~$200 ea and hub is $65, so $465 plus spokes plus labour. Hmmmm

Just curious.

[ldrcycles]

$700 for 2kg+ wheels does not sound like a good deal to me .

You can get a set of Shimano R500s 2nd hand for $100 that are under 2kgs (not by much admittedly) and they are bulletproof.

[DaveQB]

$700 for 2kg+ wheels does not sound like a good deal to me .

You can get a set of Shimano R500s 2nd hand for $100 that are under 2kgs (not by much admittedly) and they are bulletproof.

That was my thought. But new to cycling (2 years), I thought I could be missing something.

[Strawburger]

You can get a brand new set of sub 2kg wheels for less than $200 that's for sure.

For $700 you can get locally hand built wheels with great rims, spokes and hubs the equivalent of ultegra (or better) at about 1.5kgs.

Walk away, or better still, run away!

[Derny Driver]

Agree. That's not a good deal.
You could get a 1500 gram wheelset for less.

[MattyK]

Agree. That's not a good deal.
You could get a 1500 gram wheelset for less.

I have no idea of OP's condition (read: weight), but if he's cracking wheels I probably wouldn't be recommending 1500g wheelsets... The heavy 32 spokers might be much more appropriate. But yes. $700 is a joke.

[Blakeylonger]

The belgium+ is possibly the best alloy rim brake rim on the market. This is reflected in their price.

Conservative estimate of:
$400 rims
$100 5800 hubset (UK pricing, which is usually ~AU wholesale)
$100 spokes&nips (~$1.50ea, could be higher or lower depending on plain gauge / butted / cxrays)
$160 build ($80/ea from a good builder is what I'd expect to pay)

======
$760 plus rim tape/valves and the shop will likely true them for free/discount if they stand behind their builds.

It's not a screaming deal, but it's not a ripoff. If you don't like the price, build your own or buy factory wheels.

[CXCommuter]

http://www.this link is broken.au/h-plus-son-arc ... ustReviews

Free delivery and rims just as good- indestructible- these would be good if you are on the heavier side

[DaveQB]

Agree. That's not a good deal.
You could get a 1500 gram wheelset for less.

I have no idea of OP's condition (read: weight), but if he's cracking wheels I probably wouldn't be recommending 1500g wheelsets... The heavy 32 spokers might be much more appropriate. But yes. $700 is a joke.

I bought a Trek Madone 6.9 2006 second hand about 2 years ago. The wheels are the original Bontrager Race X Lite. So they are 10 years old. Don't really know how they were treated by the previous owner. I suspect they were treated well. I am between 85-90kg and ride on rough roads. I've read these wheels of this era were known to crack.

To go slightly off-topic, this is the crack I have:

[Blakeylonger]

rims just as good-

Archetypes are great, but they're not as wide, they can't do tubeless, overall straightness/roundness/strength/ease to build isn't as high. Good enough? yes. Just as good? no way.

Those bontrager wheels had a rep for cracking, that you've got 10Y out of them is surprising.

[CXCommuter]

rims just as good-

Archetypes are great, but they're not as wide, they can't do tubeless, overall straightness/roundness/strength/ease to build isn't as high. Good enough? yes. Just as good? no way.

Aside from the width, I don't agree with anything else stated- and have been advised such by at least two professional wheel builders.

[Blakeylonger]

You might be able to seal up an archetype given enough rim tape and effort, but they aren't sold as a tubeless ready rim, there's no bead shelf, no lip.

WTB Chriscross (an excellent quality and great value rim for 32H rim brake builds. also tubeless):


Belgium Plus


Stans Alpha 400


Archetype

[zero]

Agree. That's not a good deal.
You could get a 1500 gram wheelset for less.

I have no idea of OP's condition (read: weight), but if he's cracking wheels I probably wouldn't be recommending 1500g wheelsets... The heavy 32 spokers might be much more appropriate. But yes. $700 is a joke.

I bought a Trek Madone 6.9 2006 second hand about 2 years ago. The wheels are the original Bontrager Race X Lite. So they are 10 years old. Don't really know how they were treated by the previous owner. I suspect they were treated well. I am between 85-90kg and ride on rough roads. I've read these wheels of this era were known to crack.

To go slightly off-topic, this is the crack I have:

I weigh over 90kgs and it took me about 4000kms to do that to a bontrager paired spoke rear rim. mine went out of true regularly before that happened though - ie I got some warning that the rear wheel had some sort of a problem and was monitoring it regularly. The big gaps in the front spokes have been known to occasionally ingest a critter too (there is a dead squirrel/broken forks pic out there on the 'net somewhere).

Replaced them with fulcrum 5s, which are only coming off the bike now due to a change to 11 speed groupset, and I can't be bothered bodging up the hub on them. They did 6000kms last year completely ignored.

[CXCommuter]

Genuine Query- how many people run tubeless on road bikes?

[Blakeylonger]

I do, it's terrific. Not going back to tubes when the Schwalbe Ones in 25/28mm are so good.

[biker jk]

I do, it's terrific. Not going back to tubes when the Schwalbe Ones in 25/28mm are so good.

Do you know why Schwalbe doesn't recommend the use of Stans NoTubes ZTR Alpha 340 rims with the One tyre?

[macca33]

DaveQB - unless you REALLY feel you need to, you do not need to go for 32-spoke rims. 24F / 28R at most would do the job well enough. The rims you have with cracks are 10 years old, so they've done okay.

cheers

[Thoglette]

Genuine Query- how many people run tubeless on road bikes?

Not me. Tubular or Clincher only. Sealant as and where needed.

Tubulars do everything tubeless can do, with less weight and more comfort.

TubuLESS remain, IMHO, a solution in search of a problem. (I'd be interested in WHY people have moved to tubeless, and IF any moved from tubulars)

[DaveQB]

The belgium+ is possibly the best alloy rim brake rim on the market. This is reflected in their price.

That good eh? I have never heard of them but that doesn't say much with my inexperience. What are their strong points? It doesn't seem like weight is a strong point.

Conservative estimate of:
$400 rims
$100 5800 hubset (UK pricing, which is usually ~AU wholesale)
$100 spokes&nips (~$1.50ea, could be higher or lower depending on plain gauge / butted / cxrays)
$160 build ($80/ea from a good builder is what I'd expect to pay)

======
$760 plus rim tape/valves and the shop will likely true them for free/discount if they stand behind their builds.

It's not a screaming deal, but it's not a ripoff. If you don't like the price, build your own or buy factory wheels.

Thanks for that. Adds up and makes sense. So it wasn't as bad as I thought. Although he was making it out like it was the sale of the century. One of the blokes from the work shop came over and said:

I don't mean to interrupt but I have to add that if we were to make these again they would cost so much more, quite a lot more.

They both then laughed together.

Maybe I am too sceptical.

Thanks for the info Blakeylonge

[CXCommuter]

Genuine Query- how many people run tubeless on road bikes?

Not me. Tubular or Clincher only. Sealant as and where needed.

Tubulars do everything tubeless can do, with less weight and more comfort.

TubuLESS remain, IMHO, a solution in search of a problem. (I'd be interested in WHY people have moved to tubeless, and IF any moved from tubulars)

Clinchers for me all the way- currently trying open tubulars (Veloflex and Vredesteins) - love the feel of these on the Archetypes. Tubeless ready rims are a real PITA to fit normal clinchers on- like real big PITAs IME, this was a substantial reason why I went with the Archetypes over HEDs or other wider rims.

[singlespeedscott]

Not a bad price but I would be expecting Ultegra hubs with the build.

[DaveQB]

Those bontrager wheels had a rep for cracking, that you've got 10Y out of them is surprising.

I thought so. Although I feel they weren't used at all for the last 4-5 years before I bought the bike in 2013 based on what the previous owner said and the fact he had the 2009, 2011 and 2013 Trek Madone 6 in his garage.

[DaveQB]

I weigh over 90kgs and it took me about 4000kms to do that to a bontrager paired spoke rear rim. mine went out of true regularly before that happened though - ie I got some warning that the rear wheel had some sort of a problem and was monitoring it regularly.

What year model were these? Race X Lite?

Replaced them with fulcrum 5s, which are only coming off the bike now due to a change to 11 speed groupset, and I can't be bothered bodging up the hub on them. They did 6000kms last year completely ignored.

That's a good testimony. Each shop I have spoke to, Fulcrum has always been in the conversation, if not the wheel they recommend.

[DaveQB]

DaveQB - unless you REALLY feel you need to, you do not need to go for 32-spoke rims. 24F / 28R at most would do the job well enough. The rims you have with cracks are 10 years old, so they've done okay.

cheers

I didn't think I would need 32, I wasn't planning on that. These wheels are 24/20 spoke I think.
Just for the record, I am 87 kg, but 16% body fat. So no need to be polite about my weight haha. I am footballer first and cyclist second.

[Blakeylonger]

I used some fulcrum 5s for road, then CX, then commuting, then was hit by a car which broke my collarbone, they were still true after all that. Good factory option.

Or... If you don't mind paying shipping and perhaps getting your LBS to tweak the tension on them later, this is a straight up banger of a wheelset. Great hubs, great rims, great price.
http://www.velomine.com/index.php?main_ ... ts_id=3242" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you can't fit tyres to TCR/TLR rims, you're doing it wrong, start opposite the valve, get the bead down in the well and go from there.