Steel Frameset

[lynskey_rider]

Hey guys,
I'm after a bit of knowledge from people that have built with steel, are builders of steel frame sets or engineers etc.
I have decided to buy myself a custom steel (CX) frame frame set, and in an attempt to make it a little "future proof", I want to build it with disc brakes and through-axles.
Anyway, the story goes that I approached a well known Aussie builder about building a steel frame set specifying disc brakes and through-axles as what I wanted, but the reply was that: "We can't build a steel frame using disc brakes, as the braking forces from the discs are too high".

Does this sound right? I find it a bit hard to believe, as I have seen many Steel CX frames out there, and never heard it mentioned before. I have done a bit of a google and can't seem to find any information confirming that this is intact the case.

Cheers.

[Duck!]

Given that I've seen multiple disc-braked steel MTBs, I find that very hard to believe.....

[Architecturra]

Go to velocipedesalon.com forums and check out the hundreds and hundreds of frames and builders there.... Including many steel framed disc brake setups.

I call massive BS on the advice you were given

[Espresso_]

Anyway, the story goes that I approached a well known Aussie builder about building a steel frame set specifying disc brakes and through-axles as what I wanted, but the reply was that: "We can't build a steel frame using disc brakes, as the braking forces from the discs are too high".

I think it's entirely possible that any _one_ given frame builder cannot (or would not) build a disc braked steel bike for you. I could name a few very reputable frame builders that would not do it.

But it's certainly possible, as others have said.

The issue is mainly the fork, as discs on the rear will not generate the kinds of forces likely to bend anything (which is the main problem). It's for this same reason that many production disc-braked steel bikes use a carbon fork.

E

[Espresso_]

Given that I've seen multiple disc-braked steel MTBs, I find that very hard to believe.....

Are there actually that many genuine MTBs with steel front forks set up for discs?

I would have thought that most MTBs of the disc era would have a (not steel) suspension fork up front, rather than a steel fork?

I guess there are plenty of more recent rigid "off road" bikes like a Surly Krampus etc but I would not really consider them MTBs. They do have steel forks with discs up front though.

E

[Duck!]

Correct, most steel MTBs use a suspension fork, many of which are magnesium lowers. Modern rigid-forked "proper" MTBs typically use carbon for its combination of low-frequency stiffness & high-frequency vibration damping. The springiness of a steel fork would give somewhat alarming changes in handling under braking. Titanium does the same thing (I have ridden a Ti-forked bike, and yes, it was an interesting feeling!). As such, I can understand why a builder would be reluctant to build a steel disc-braked fork, however, my previous comment was regarding frames, in response to this line the OP was given:

"We can't build a steel frame using disc brakes, as the braking forces from the discs are too high".

[find_bruce]

Yes, steel forks are rigid not suspension. I have a disc brake steel fork on my commuter, ugly unicrown, a bit heavy but very functional.

You can even get lugged steel forks if that's your thing. No weight listed but I am willing to be it is not light

Even less of an issue with a steel frame, just needs slightly stiffer seat stays. Everything from a custom cielo, Genesis (although they have had to recall some steel forks, Marin, Redline & no doubt many more

[Espresso_]

You can even get lugged steel forks if that's your thing. No weight listed but I am willing to be it is not light.

Yes, that is my thing. Or at least this is.

Weight? Meh. Chances are if you're looking for a steel bike/fork you're probably considering other things over weight.

E

[Dragster1]

Sounds like they don't want to build it, most likely had a previous failure of some sort, because they didn't do a good job of it. I agree that the front fork arm would have to be a little more robust than that of a v-brake type, but with materials like chrome moly pipe and correct techniques I cant see that being a problem these days. This frame below was designed for rim brakes and has been converted to disk without a problem.

[open roader]

Eric Estlund (Winter Bicycles - Oregon USA) builds beautiful custom steel framesets for disc wheels...........

http://www.winterbicycles.com/

[Uncle Just]

A thing of beauty, in steel, with disc fork.... IF Grand Royale.

And a recent build from Ewen Gellie for his partner....
http://www.gelliecustombikeframes.com.a ... andonneur/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[AUbicycles]

"We can't build a steel frame using disc brakes, as the braking forces from the discs are too high".

I wouldn't read too much into it. They don't want to do it for any number of reasons. It may not suit their style or vision (compromising aesthetics or preferred materials), they may simply have no interest, it may be too expensive to design and engineer if this is new.

The important take-away is that who-ever builds it needs to know how discs work in terms of engineering a sound frame.

[zero]

Go to velocipedesalon.com forums and check out the hundreds and hundreds of frames and builders there.... Including many steel framed disc brake setups.

I call massive BS on the advice you were given

Its not unreasonable to be honest. They probably do not source the right kind of tubes by default to make a disc frame at either end, nor will their bikes have nice riding qualities if such was fitted - I could understand exactly why some traditional frame builders would want to avoid disc braked steel framesets.

[silentbutdeadly]

Wonder if they'd be more comfortable building a frame with Paragon Machine Works sliding drop outs as this tends to make the frame design and alignment a tad more simplified since the hanger and caliper mounts are on the sliding dropout...and the dropouts can be swapped for different brake mounts, axle forms and dérailleur forms (or even no dérailleur) without further frame alterations.

http://www.paragonmachineworks.com/cgi- ... key=DS1004" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My steel hardtail MTB is like this....and I could actually convert it to a drop bar gravel marathoner with 135 rear thru axle if I was that way inclined...

[RonK]

Well, I suppose you could go back to the bike builder, tell 'em they're wrong, and demand they build it for you.
But I suspect they'll still refuse.

[mmc22]

I'd say it's all in the wording... as in "We" can't build it, not so much to say it can't be done, they seem to be saying "they" can't for whatever reason. Probably tooling and experience.

[RonK]

I'd say it's all in the wording... as in "We" can't build it, not so much to say it can't be done, they seem to be saying "they" can't for whatever reason. Probably tooling and experience.

Yup - that's the way I read it too

[Mike Ayling]

FWIW

Thorn, the boutique manufacturer of steel touring bikes used to insist that the forces exerted by disc brakes were too strong for their current range of steel forks which were designed to provide a comfortable ride. They have bowed to customer pressure and offer a range of steel disc brake compatible forks but see the extract from their current brochure below:

http://www.sjscycles.com/thornpdf/thorn ... ochure.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[6] Thorn Reynolds steel disc brake 700c touring fork with lo loader bosses.Fits Mercury or Club Tour Mk4
The Blades are extra heavy duty and have larger than usual diameter tips. There are no V brake bosses.
This fork must be used with a front disc brake.

We resisted designing a steel disc fork because we knew that a reliable disc
fork could never be as comfortable as our Reynolds Super Tourist V brake
fork and it’s not!

Mike

[RonK]

We resisted designing a steel disc fork because we knew that a reliable disc
fork could never be as comfortable as our Reynolds Super Tourist V brake
fork and it’s not!

Kinda like cutting off your nose to spite your face isn't it. I bet it was Andy Blance wrote it. But that is the kind of attitude that predominates at Thorn. Funny, Thorn was the first to come to mind when I read the original post.

[baabaa]

Are you sure about a cx frameset?
Ok carbon forks and not through-axles but...
http://ritcheylogic.com/frames/cross/sw ... black.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and through-axles in the rear but you could get a through-axle fork
http://www.ninerbikes.com/rlt9steel" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
But yes it can be done and I have had one of these since 2008
http://salsacycles.com/bikes/archive/la_cruz/overview/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My call is that the builder is just saying no to you and that is a good thing if they don't feel comfortable doing stuff they don't want to do.
Also not through-axle but these would be up on my list http://www.shandcycles.com/bikes/stoater/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and
https://www.benscycle.com/p-3902-milwau ... ilder.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ( 'cause my main 3 bikes are built with True Temper OX Platinum and I like it a lot)