I concur. My wet weather bike (cheap alloy frame) has never had the rear wheel correctly aligned (it's angled) and the bike rides fine. I've descended Mont Ventoux on that bike with no problem.Rex wrote:I have a carbon bike and my NDS carbon dropout is not aligned with my DS dropout due to many wheel changes with threaded shimano hubs.
Result = misaligned rear wheel. Between tyre and NDS chainstay I have 1mm and between tyre and DS chainstay I have about 7mm.
Therefore my rear wheel is not aligned with my front wheel.
Does it affect my ride? Not one single bit. I can't tell the difference.
Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame
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Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame
Postby biker jk » Wed May 20, 2015 5:44 pm
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Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame
Postby zero » Wed May 20, 2015 5:53 pm
I suspect that your total misalignment after the wheel is fitted is in the order of 0.5mm at the dropout with the wheel fastened, and your axle is near to, or correctly centered in the frame.Rex wrote:I have a carbon bike and my NDS carbon dropout is not aligned with my DS dropout due to many wheel changes with threaded shimano hubs.
Result = misaligned rear wheel. Between tyre and NDS chainstay I have 1mm and between tyre and DS chainstay I have about 7mm.
Therefore my rear wheel is not aligned with my front wheel.
Does it affect my ride? Not one single bit. I can't tell the difference.
You can actually have a much larger misalignment than that and I believe the OP is talking about multiple mm at the dropouts.
By design the triangles are both spread slightly, so that if you bend both dropouts out of position to the same direction (which you can achieve by bending one stay outwards or inwards, and then fitting a wheel which may drag the other stay inwards, or the opposite to balance the tensions), then you wind up with a longer stay on which ever winds up the being the straight side, and a shorter stay on which ever is the bent out side, but because the error is both axle position and wheel angle, the wheel is actually centered at the tread near the BB, but miles out at the ground - making it a difficult problem to eyeball.
The measured error you are showing if its only fore-aft won't be on the road at all. Probably the reason that track ends have worked so well, as pure horizontal misalignment doesn't matter too much. I went to a lot of effort on my track ends bike to position the wheel perfectly, but it probably doesn't matter that much, beyond ensuring it averages 34 instead of 33.9 for an hour at the park (and letting me know if I've pulled the drive side forward - which I've sadly never achieved!).
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Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame
Postby Rex » Wed May 20, 2015 6:04 pm
What a crappy predicament to be in.
Scary part is I have a brand new frame sitting in a box at home that I won't be riding for another 6 months also.
Hope the OP get's a satisfying resolution to this.
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Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame
Postby zero » Wed May 20, 2015 6:41 pm
I'd expect that which ever stay was on the lower side of the box when the courier company employee stood on the bottom bracket area is bent inwards, by most of however much the gap between the dropouts is less than 130mm. I'd be pretty surprised if Lynskey built it badly, but I'm also a little surprised that they aren't doing enough to understand what is actually wrong with it *now*.Rex wrote:Yeah good point.
What a crappy predicament to be in.
Scary part is I have a brand new frame sitting in a box at home that I won't be riding for another 6 months also.
Hope the OP get's a satisfying resolution to this.
I know the feeling though - my heart sunk when my 5 star turned up with nothing between the dropouts, so the first thing I saw was a box with the track dropouts punched through it and one bent. Now fixed, but the inspection got worse when I found obvious signs of post crash straightening too - contrary to the vendors description.
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Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame
Postby Drizt » Thu May 21, 2015 10:15 pm
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Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame
Postby battler2 » Thu May 21, 2015 11:10 pm
i will wait until i found out who is the replacement manager, send a polite email explaining the situation, then see if they might be able to convince the bike shop to do proper measurements.
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Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame
Postby Drizt » Thu May 21, 2015 11:12 pm
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Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame
Postby queequeg » Thu May 21, 2015 11:26 pm
I am pretty sure that based on the serial number of your frame, they can pull the QA measurements from their records and compare to what it is now. They are pretty meticulous with the frame builds, and they have plenty of videos of the jigs they use to build and align the frames.
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Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame
Postby SwimBikeRun » Fri May 22, 2015 8:17 am
exactly this, lynsky are really good at this stuff, as its been said before if it wasnt spot on it would not have been sent, clearly if it wasnt in the correct box then the proper box was damaged in someway and that is where the problem is. What happened to the original box, has the bike shop swapped it to another box and thrown the other in the bin as to hide this from you?lardass71 wrote:somewhere there must be manufacturing specs, with limits on what can be out and by how much. The tolerances for each section of the frame, im really thinking that its not a lynskey problem, i honestly cant see them releasing a frame for use that does not meet there quality control. the legal crap fight if they did and you were injured would be a major crap fest. One of my first questions would be if purchased from lynskey, why is it not in one of there boxes? could be courier company or even the bike shop at fault, but something is definitely smelly herebattler2 wrote:
manufacturers specs have never been mentioned. what are they? what's to stop them saying even a 5mm discrepancy is acceptable? despite the fact that it's clearly not safe to ride.
this is where consumer law chimes in, and i really don't want to go that route. here's hoping someone at lynskey will realise this could potentially be bad press for them and ask for proper measurements.
ill provide a photo of where i tied it (around the dropouts, exiting centrally), but i dont think that is the problem here. it would make a slight difference, but all i intended to demonstrate was that there was a discrepancy.
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Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame
Postby RonK » Fri May 22, 2015 9:51 am
Now who would have done something like that?battler2 wrote:not yet, and maybe not until later next week. the guy at Lynskey (Don) that is agreeing with the so called 'measurements' from the brake block is leaving the company tomorrow. there's a farewell post on facebook, and someone posted negative comments and they were eventually deleted. so there you go, censor or die.
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Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame
Postby familyguy » Fri May 22, 2015 10:21 am
This.Drizt wrote:For the love of God, surely someone is going to measure the distance between the drop outs?
And will someone also check the inner planes of the dropout faces are parallel to one another and to the centreline of the frame?
Jim
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Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame
Postby battler2 » Fri May 22, 2015 12:05 pm
it actually wasn't me, some guy from the states that read the roadbikereview thread and had a tiff of his own. he basically said 'good riddance' to don, and posted my forum thread on their wall. that was never acknowledged or responded to, and simply deleted later. they can't delete facebook reviews though.RonK wrote: Now who would have done something like that?
i'll reserve shaming on social media as a more last resort.
even if the frame was damaged in shipping from US to bike shop (there was no evidence it was trampled on in VIC-SA - i simply wouldn't have accepted delivery), it's not my responsibility to absorb these costs or make the claim. i agree lynskey don't have to warranty the frame for shipping damage as it's not in their policy to do so, but if the bike shop is covering this up then the responsibility lies with them. sounds like they didn't have insurance from US-AU so they know they might be hit with a loss.
i'm questioning lynskey's QC, as i've heard of another forum member here having repairs done and the wheel not sitting centred in the dropouts. this was after a whole new rear triangle was required.
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Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame
Postby Jesmol » Fri May 22, 2015 12:48 pm
If you get the frame back, I could probably measure it up on our Faro Arm to get all the measurements , better than stuffing around with string.battler2 wrote:it actually wasn't me, some guy from the states that read the roadbikereview thread and had a tiff of his own. he basically said 'good riddance' to don, and posted my forum thread on their wall. that was never acknowledged or responded to, and simply deleted later. they can't delete facebook reviews though.RonK wrote: Now who would have done something like that?
i'll reserve shaming on social media as a more last resort.
even if the frame was damaged in shipping from US to bike shop (there was no evidence it was trampled on in VIC-SA - i simply wouldn't have accepted delivery), it's not my responsibility to absorb these costs or make the claim. i agree lynskey don't have to warranty the frame for shipping damage as it's not in their policy to do so, but if the bike shop is covering this up then the responsibility lies with them. sounds like they didn't have insurance from US-AU so they know they might be hit with a loss.
i'm questioning lynskey's QC, as i've heard of another forum member here having repairs done and the wheel not sitting centred in the dropouts. this was after a whole new rear triangle was required.
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Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame
Postby thecaptn » Thu May 28, 2015 7:16 pm
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Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame
Postby biker jk » Thu May 28, 2015 7:29 pm
Go read his thread on roadbikereview.com. Seems a few are not buying his story.thecaptn wrote:Updates?
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Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame
Postby Drizt » Thu May 28, 2015 7:45 pm
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Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame
Postby Drizt » Thu May 28, 2015 8:46 pm
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Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame
Postby battler2 » Thu May 28, 2015 9:51 pm
The replies on that forum were very different, possibly because this situation would be different in the US with different consumer laws. One of the more recent replies was just a troll and it was blatantly obvious. I couldn't stop laughing at his ridiculous comments.biker jk wrote:Go read his thread on roadbikereview.com. Seems a few are not buying his story.thecaptn wrote:Updates?
I've been waiting patiently to see who Don's replacement is (he was a manager of sorts), but I've found a 'General Manager' that I might try, but there's a sales staff member I will email soon to ask if he can make sense of all this.
No replies from the bike shop since, as expected. There's not really much more to say to him as he thinks he will get away with this.
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Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame
Postby familyguy » Thu May 28, 2015 10:46 pm
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Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame
Postby battler2 » Thu May 28, 2015 11:09 pm
and it's $50 where i have to give him my credit card details over the phone. think i'm going to want to do that after all this?
whats the weather like in melb for riding around july/august? sunny and warm?
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Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame
Postby familyguy » Thu May 28, 2015 11:20 pm
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Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame
Postby Drizt » Thu May 28, 2015 11:49 pm
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Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame
Postby queequeg » Fri May 29, 2015 12:05 am
As for Don, he's obviously going to side with the local dealer as there is an established relationship there. When I was looking to buy my Lynskey, they tried to redirect me to BikePro as they were my "local shop". When I pointed out to them that BikePro was a shop more than 500 miles from me and was double the price, they dealt directly with me.
Unlike your experience, I found their service and QA to be excellent. The frame arrived impeccably packed, and there was no way the frame could get crushed as they used spacers inside to suspend the frame inside.
The chain of custody was Lynskey to UPS to me, with UPS handling the customs clearance.
The fact you did 't get your frame in an original box does make me ask what happened to the original one. It's why I didn't want to deal with BikePro as they were providing no value added service to me, except for taking an extra $1000 cut for acting as a middle man.
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Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame
Postby thecaptn » Fri May 29, 2015 8:22 am
Don't get sucked in to an ongoing discussion about the frame, reaffirm your belief that it's not fit for purpose.
I'm not a lawyer, it's just what I'd do.
Whatever you decide to do I hope you can get a speedy resolution,
Pete
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