Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame

User avatar
biker jk
Posts: 7001
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame

Postby biker jk » Wed May 20, 2015 5:44 pm

Rex wrote:I have a carbon bike and my NDS carbon dropout is not aligned with my DS dropout due to many wheel changes with threaded shimano hubs.
Result = misaligned rear wheel. Between tyre and NDS chainstay I have 1mm and between tyre and DS chainstay I have about 7mm.
Therefore my rear wheel is not aligned with my front wheel.

Does it affect my ride? Not one single bit. I can't tell the difference.
I concur. My wet weather bike (cheap alloy frame) has never had the rear wheel correctly aligned (it's angled) and the bike rides fine. I've descended Mont Ventoux on that bike with no problem.

zero
Posts: 3056
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:54 pm

Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame

Postby zero » Wed May 20, 2015 5:53 pm

Rex wrote:I have a carbon bike and my NDS carbon dropout is not aligned with my DS dropout due to many wheel changes with threaded shimano hubs.
Result = misaligned rear wheel. Between tyre and NDS chainstay I have 1mm and between tyre and DS chainstay I have about 7mm.
Therefore my rear wheel is not aligned with my front wheel.

Does it affect my ride? Not one single bit. I can't tell the difference.
I suspect that your total misalignment after the wheel is fitted is in the order of 0.5mm at the dropout with the wheel fastened, and your axle is near to, or correctly centered in the frame.

You can actually have a much larger misalignment than that and I believe the OP is talking about multiple mm at the dropouts.

By design the triangles are both spread slightly, so that if you bend both dropouts out of position to the same direction (which you can achieve by bending one stay outwards or inwards, and then fitting a wheel which may drag the other stay inwards, or the opposite to balance the tensions), then you wind up with a longer stay on which ever winds up the being the straight side, and a shorter stay on which ever is the bent out side, but because the error is both axle position and wheel angle, the wheel is actually centered at the tread near the BB, but miles out at the ground - making it a difficult problem to eyeball.

The measured error you are showing if its only fore-aft won't be on the road at all. Probably the reason that track ends have worked so well, as pure horizontal misalignment doesn't matter too much. I went to a lot of effort on my track ends bike to position the wheel perfectly, but it probably doesn't matter that much, beyond ensuring it averages 34 instead of 33.9 for an hour at the park (and letting me know if I've pulled the drive side forward - which I've sadly never achieved!).

Rex
Posts: 845
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:12 am
Location: Perth, WA

Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame

Postby Rex » Wed May 20, 2015 6:04 pm

Yeah good point.

What a crappy predicament to be in.
Scary part is I have a brand new frame sitting in a box at home that I won't be riding for another 6 months also.

Hope the OP get's a satisfying resolution to this.

zero
Posts: 3056
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:54 pm

Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame

Postby zero » Wed May 20, 2015 6:41 pm

Rex wrote:Yeah good point.

What a crappy predicament to be in.
Scary part is I have a brand new frame sitting in a box at home that I won't be riding for another 6 months also.

Hope the OP get's a satisfying resolution to this.
I'd expect that which ever stay was on the lower side of the box when the courier company employee stood on the bottom bracket area is bent inwards, by most of however much the gap between the dropouts is less than 130mm. I'd be pretty surprised if Lynskey built it badly, but I'm also a little surprised that they aren't doing enough to understand what is actually wrong with it *now*.

I know the feeling though - my heart sunk when my 5 star turned up with nothing between the dropouts, so the first thing I saw was a box with the track dropouts punched through it and one bent. Now fixed, but the inspection got worse when I found obvious signs of post crash straightening too - contrary to the vendors description.

User avatar
Drizt
Posts: 1089
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 9:51 am

Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame

Postby Drizt » Thu May 21, 2015 10:15 pm

Any updates on this?

battler2
Posts: 358
Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 10:04 pm

Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame

Postby battler2 » Thu May 21, 2015 11:10 pm

not yet, and maybe not until later next week. the guy at Lynskey (Don) that is agreeing with the so called 'measurements' from the brake block is leaving the company tomorrow. there's a farewell post on facebook, and someone posted negative comments and they were eventually deleted. so there you go, censor or die.

i will wait until i found out who is the replacement manager, send a polite email explaining the situation, then see if they might be able to convince the bike shop to do proper measurements.

User avatar
Drizt
Posts: 1089
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 9:51 am

Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame

Postby Drizt » Thu May 21, 2015 11:12 pm

For the love of God, surely someone is going to measure the distance between the drop outs?

User avatar
queequeg
Posts: 6479
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:09 am

Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame

Postby queequeg » Thu May 21, 2015 11:26 pm

I can't really blame Lynskey for deleting negative comments from Don's farewell post.

I am pretty sure that based on the serial number of your frame, they can pull the QA measurements from their records and compare to what it is now. They are pretty meticulous with the frame builds, and they have plenty of videos of the jigs they use to build and align the frames.
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '16 Cervelo R5, '18 Mason BokekTi

SwimBikeRun
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu May 21, 2015 8:19 am

Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame

Postby SwimBikeRun » Fri May 22, 2015 8:17 am

lardass71 wrote:
battler2 wrote:
manufacturers specs have never been mentioned. what are they? what's to stop them saying even a 5mm discrepancy is acceptable? despite the fact that it's clearly not safe to ride.

this is where consumer law chimes in, and i really don't want to go that route. here's hoping someone at lynskey will realise this could potentially be bad press for them and ask for proper measurements.

ill provide a photo of where i tied it (around the dropouts, exiting centrally), but i dont think that is the problem here. it would make a slight difference, but all i intended to demonstrate was that there was a discrepancy.
somewhere there must be manufacturing specs, with limits on what can be out and by how much. The tolerances for each section of the frame, im really thinking that its not a lynskey problem, i honestly cant see them releasing a frame for use that does not meet there quality control. the legal crap fight if they did and you were injured would be a major crap fest. One of my first questions would be if purchased from lynskey, why is it not in one of there boxes? could be courier company or even the bike shop at fault, but something is definitely smelly here
exactly this, lynsky are really good at this stuff, as its been said before if it wasnt spot on it would not have been sent, clearly if it wasnt in the correct box then the proper box was damaged in someway and that is where the problem is. What happened to the original box, has the bike shop swapped it to another box and thrown the other in the bin as to hide this from you?

User avatar
RonK
Posts: 11508
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: If you need to know, ask me
Contact:

Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame

Postby RonK » Fri May 22, 2015 9:51 am

battler2 wrote:not yet, and maybe not until later next week. the guy at Lynskey (Don) that is agreeing with the so called 'measurements' from the brake block is leaving the company tomorrow. there's a farewell post on facebook, and someone posted negative comments and they were eventually deleted. so there you go, censor or die.
Now who would have done something like that?
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

User avatar
familyguy
Posts: 8365
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:30 pm
Location: Willoughby, NSW

Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame

Postby familyguy » Fri May 22, 2015 10:21 am

Drizt wrote:For the love of God, surely someone is going to measure the distance between the drop outs?
This.

And will someone also check the inner planes of the dropout faces are parallel to one another and to the centreline of the frame?

Jim

battler2
Posts: 358
Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 10:04 pm

Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame

Postby battler2 » Fri May 22, 2015 12:05 pm

RonK wrote: Now who would have done something like that?
it actually wasn't me, some guy from the states that read the roadbikereview thread and had a tiff of his own. he basically said 'good riddance' to don, and posted my forum thread on their wall. that was never acknowledged or responded to, and simply deleted later. they can't delete facebook reviews though.

i'll reserve shaming on social media as a more last resort.

even if the frame was damaged in shipping from US to bike shop (there was no evidence it was trampled on in VIC-SA - i simply wouldn't have accepted delivery), it's not my responsibility to absorb these costs or make the claim. i agree lynskey don't have to warranty the frame for shipping damage as it's not in their policy to do so, but if the bike shop is covering this up then the responsibility lies with them. sounds like they didn't have insurance from US-AU so they know they might be hit with a loss.

i'm questioning lynskey's QC, as i've heard of another forum member here having repairs done and the wheel not sitting centred in the dropouts. this was after a whole new rear triangle was required.

Jesmol
Posts: 444
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:48 pm

Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame

Postby Jesmol » Fri May 22, 2015 12:48 pm

battler2 wrote:
RonK wrote: Now who would have done something like that?
it actually wasn't me, some guy from the states that read the roadbikereview thread and had a tiff of his own. he basically said 'good riddance' to don, and posted my forum thread on their wall. that was never acknowledged or responded to, and simply deleted later. they can't delete facebook reviews though.

i'll reserve shaming on social media as a more last resort.

even if the frame was damaged in shipping from US to bike shop (there was no evidence it was trampled on in VIC-SA - i simply wouldn't have accepted delivery), it's not my responsibility to absorb these costs or make the claim. i agree lynskey don't have to warranty the frame for shipping damage as it's not in their policy to do so, but if the bike shop is covering this up then the responsibility lies with them. sounds like they didn't have insurance from US-AU so they know they might be hit with a loss.

i'm questioning lynskey's QC, as i've heard of another forum member here having repairs done and the wheel not sitting centred in the dropouts. this was after a whole new rear triangle was required.
If you get the frame back, I could probably measure it up on our Faro Arm to get all the measurements , better than stuffing around with string.

thecaptn
Posts: 1711
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:28 pm

Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame

Postby thecaptn » Thu May 28, 2015 7:16 pm

Updates?

User avatar
biker jk
Posts: 7001
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame

Postby biker jk » Thu May 28, 2015 7:29 pm

thecaptn wrote:Updates?
Go read his thread on roadbikereview.com. Seems a few are not buying his story.

User avatar
Drizt
Posts: 1089
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 9:51 am

Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame

Postby Drizt » Thu May 28, 2015 7:45 pm

Link?

User avatar
biker jk
Posts: 7001
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame

Postby biker jk » Thu May 28, 2015 8:27 pm


User avatar
Drizt
Posts: 1089
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 9:51 am

Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame

Postby Drizt » Thu May 28, 2015 8:46 pm

Thanks

battler2
Posts: 358
Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 10:04 pm

Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame

Postby battler2 » Thu May 28, 2015 9:51 pm

biker jk wrote:
thecaptn wrote:Updates?
Go read his thread on roadbikereview.com. Seems a few are not buying his story.
The replies on that forum were very different, possibly because this situation would be different in the US with different consumer laws. One of the more recent replies was just a troll and it was blatantly obvious. I couldn't stop laughing at his ridiculous comments.

I've been waiting patiently to see who Don's replacement is (he was a manager of sorts), but I've found a 'General Manager' that I might try, but there's a sales staff member I will email soon to ask if he can make sense of all this.

No replies from the bike shop since, as expected. There's not really much more to say to him as he thinks he will get away with this.

User avatar
familyguy
Posts: 8365
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:30 pm
Location: Willoughby, NSW

Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame

Postby familyguy » Thu May 28, 2015 10:46 pm

You need to get your frame back. You own it. If it costs you $30, so be it.

battler2
Posts: 358
Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 10:04 pm

Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame

Postby battler2 » Thu May 28, 2015 11:09 pm

actually it's $50, and it cost me nearly $60 to send it back. To do what exactly? measure it with a proper tool or have it verified by a frame builder in ADL only to have to pay to send it back again? then there's the warranty issue then, and probably another manufactured reason why it's not 'covered', or 'within tolerance'. all backed by lynskey no doubt.

and it's $50 where i have to give him my credit card details over the phone. think i'm going to want to do that after all this?

whats the weather like in melb for riding around july/august? sunny and warm? :)

User avatar
familyguy
Posts: 8365
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:30 pm
Location: Willoughby, NSW

Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame

Postby familyguy » Thu May 28, 2015 11:20 pm

Until you have it, independent verification is impossible.

User avatar
Drizt
Posts: 1089
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 9:51 am

Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame

Postby Drizt » Thu May 28, 2015 11:49 pm

Take it back and get it properly measured. Unfortunately you should have done that before sending it back.

User avatar
queequeg
Posts: 6479
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:09 am

Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame

Postby queequeg » Fri May 29, 2015 12:05 am

I agree with the others on here, you need to get your frame back and get it measured properly by someone else, preferably a frame builder who knows what they are doing.

As for Don, he's obviously going to side with the local dealer as there is an established relationship there. When I was looking to buy my Lynskey, they tried to redirect me to BikePro as they were my "local shop". When I pointed out to them that BikePro was a shop more than 500 miles from me and was double the price, they dealt directly with me.
Unlike your experience, I found their service and QA to be excellent. The frame arrived impeccably packed, and there was no way the frame could get crushed as they used spacers inside to suspend the frame inside.
The chain of custody was Lynskey to UPS to me, with UPS handling the customs clearance.
The fact you did 't get your frame in an original box does make me ask what happened to the original one. It's why I didn't want to deal with BikePro as they were providing no value added service to me, except for taking an extra $1000 cut for acting as a middle man.
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '16 Cervelo R5, '18 Mason BokekTi

thecaptn
Posts: 1711
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:28 pm

Re: Being REFUSED warranty on a defective Lynskey frame

Postby thecaptn » Fri May 29, 2015 8:22 am

My 2c worth, while the frame is in the bike shop's custody push for a refund. If it were me I wouldn't want it back. Correspond by Email, tell the shop that you believe the product to be faulty and therefore request am imediate refund. Note how long it takes him to reply. If he replies that the product is fine and that you can have it returned, tell him that you intend to challange and for him to anticipate formal notification. Give him the same amount of time to reply. If he fails to respond or responds in the negative speak to Legal Aid or other Small Claims type of lawyer.

Don't get sucked in to an ongoing discussion about the frame, reaffirm your belief that it's not fit for purpose.

I'm not a lawyer, it's just what I'd do.

Whatever you decide to do I hope you can get a speedy resolution,
Pete

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users