Looking to upgrade to a faster cx type bike from a mtb

[CKinnard]

...the TRP Spyre mechanical disc brakes are the biggest piece of crap I've ever had.
Have had them back to the shop twice and they are just cheap and nasty.

A little O/T, but that's interesting - they enjoy a very good reputation; have had them recommended by many including on this forum. Might be worth taking them to another shop to rule out setup issues?

Where have you heard about this good reputation?
There was no such thing at the last two Brisbane CX races I attended, and there's another tomorrow I'll be sure to ask around at.
Further, these guys are arguably the largest off road LBS in Brisbane and didn't express a high opinion of these brakes. In fact, they've stopped selling bikes with them
http://www.fortheriders.com.au/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Nor did one of Brisbane's most respected mechanical repair shops
http://www.highgearracing.com.au/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[chachi]

This! Even 23C slicks are fine on most gravel if you have some basic bike-handling skills. Just avoid ploughing into potholes or larger rocks at full steam

And watch the sidewalls if running GP4000s

QFT. Or just don't run GP4000s (my preferred solution)

@chachi, have a couple of mates rolling on the Brunswick as an all-terrain roadie style bike; early days but haven't heard anything bad about it. My cx bike runs Avid BB-7s and while they're certainly a step down from the XT hydros on my MTB, they're not as bad as people sometimes seem to make out.

I suppose for the price, you can't go wrong. I wonder where Giant are cutting costs with the Fastroad Comax having a composite frame, hydraulic brakes and costing $2k at RRP and currently $1500. I find it strange that even expensive CX bikes I've seen also have mechanical brakes.

[Duck!]

I suppose for the price, you can't go wrong. I wonder where Giant are cutting costs with the Fastroad Comax having a composite frame, hydraulic brakes and costing $2k at RRP and currently $1500.

It's called production volume. Giant are the largest manufacturer in the world. The scale of their operation, plus the fact that they produce the frames rather than outsource the work (for example Giant are commissioned by others to build frames for them) results in lower unit costs.

[chachi]

Yes yes, supply and demand.

So cost/bargain wise the Fastroad Comax for an extra $100 compared to the Brunswick is a better offer.

[m@]

Where have you heard about this good reputation?
There was no such thing at the last two Brisbane CX races I attended, and there's another tomorrow I'll be sure to ask around at.
Further, these guys are arguably the largest off road LBS in Brisbane and didn't express a high opinion of these brakes. In fact, they've stopped selling bikes with them
http://www.fortheriders.com.au/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Nor did one of Brisbane's most respected mechanical repair shops
http://www.highgearracing.com.au/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just, y'know, around the traps.

Not from CX circles so much - seems like even C graders are all running hydro discs or cantis here... the term 'arms race' wouldn't be inappropriate More from the gravel grinder greybeard types, and in the context of comparing to HY/RDs as an upgrade from BB7s. The opinions I'd heard on Spyres was basically that they'd be better than BB7s in that regard without the long lever throw and other issues the HY/RDs are prone to. *shrugs* In the end I decided the BB7s are fine for now. Certainly reliable; just a bit fiddly to set up with zero pad rub and still get good power and modulation IME.

[daft1024]

The opinions I'd heard on Spyres was basically that they'd be better than BB7s in that regard without the long lever throw and other issues the HY/RDs are prone to. *shrugs* In the end I decided the BB7s are fine for now. Certainly reliable; just a bit fiddly to set up with zero pad rub and still get good power and modulation IME.

I've actually thought about trying HY/RD's so its interesting to read about their issues.

I've got BB7s and I find they are uninspiring to say the least. Its crazy how BB7s have such a good rep. After alot of trial and error I've got them running ok and while being reliable I've found they really aren't that much better than well setup v-brakes. Certainly I found that v's were wayyyy easier to setup. I've been unable to get zero pad rub, decent power, and low noise using sintered pads. I've got organics in there at the moment and its alot better but still not awesome. Coming down some firetrails chasing MTB's I've had more than a few moments wondering if I will end up in a tree. My MTB friends think its crazy how hydro's command such a huge premium in the dropbar market.

Last week there was a Salsa Colossal Ti on bike exchange for $3500 (with an RRP of $5800) and it came with BB7's... I would be seriously disappointed about dropping that much coin on a bike with brakes as average as BB7s.

Fingers crossed that UCI makes disk's legal so we get a cheap and good trickle down hydro disk setup at something like a Tiagra level in a few years.

[Calvin27]

My MTB friends think its crazy how hydro's command such a huge premium in the dropbar market.

Yeah, tell me about it. I can understand installation costs, but it seems the after market stuff is either hard to find or realyl expensive. Cheapest I've found was shimano shifter and brakes for $500 when the aud was better. Still need a RD, FD, cranks and casette.

When I did try my mates hydro on the cross bike, I thought how I ever managed with BB7 on mine. I guess maybe mtb has harder braking that I don't realise as much

[daft1024]

When I did try my mates hydro on the cross bike, I thought how I ever managed with BB7 on mine. I guess maybe mtb has harder braking that I don't realise as much

Thankfully I don't know anyone with a hydro cyclocross setup. I think if I did try a set I would be in real trouble with the department of finance. There is no way I could every justify that sort of coin on my bike.

My solution to the uninspiring off-road braking is to start looking at a cheap 29r's. N+1 is the solution for everything isn't it

[chachi]

Well At least I found out from a Avanti dealer on why low to mid end drop bar cx bikes don't have hydro. Because of the reservoir location issue, where the hell do you put it on a drop bar...Guess the new gen cx bikes might get it, Scott suppose to be releasing a new batch of cx bikes in August and their cheapest cx is 2.2k, bit over my price range though. Otherwise there's the Avanti Gyro for 3.4k, meh.

[SuperSix]

It's only money. Plenty of people dropping big dollars on flash bikes. No need to justify it to anyone.

[Duck!]

I've got BB7s and I find they are uninspiring to say the least. Its crazy how BB7s have such a good rep. After alot of trial and error I've got them running ok and while being reliable I've found they really aren't that much better than well setup v-brakes. Certainly I found that v's were wayyyy easier to setup. I've been unable to get zero pad rub, decent power, and low noise using sintered pads. I've got organics in there at the moment and its a lot better but still not awesome. Coming down some firetrails chasing MTB's I've had more than a few moments wondering if I will end up in a tree. My MTB friends think its crazy how hydro's command such a huge premium in the dropbar market.

BB7s were for a long time the benchmark for mechanical disc brakes, at least the MTB versions. They haven't been updated for quite some time, so don't jump out from the rest any more. Secondly, the road version (BB7R), which is what will be on the CX bike, use a different lever ratio to the original MTB version - the actuating arm is shorter to pair with the shorter cable pull of the road lever - and that may affect performance somewhat.

Metallic pads do feel pretty ordinary until they're warmed up. The harder compound gives a softer initial bite, but much better modulation, and more overall stopping power once warmed up. Resin pads give more initial bite, but less modulation (they're more grabby), and can be prone to glazing from surface overheating, resulting in fade.

[chachi]

Is there recent pretty little graph showing comparisons of SRAM/Shimano models of bike hardware?

[daft1024]

Do you mean like this?

[carcharias]

+1 for Cell Brunswick at 10 KG, SRAM parts = bargain bike. Plus it's versatile as you can fit a rack.
Cable Avid BB- 5 brakes are great, and agreed less power than hydraulic stuff but simpler and easier maintenance.
It's relatively easy and not really expensive to convert to an adjustable stem and flat bars if you don't like drop bars...

[chachi]

Do you mean like this?

That's it! thanks! My old Raceline has LX gear which I'm guessing is bottom of the barrel gear.

+1 for Cell Brunswick at 10 KG, SRAM parts = bargain bike. Plus it's versatile as you can fit a rack.
Cable Avid BB- 5 brakes are great, and agreed less power than hydraulic stuff but simpler and easier maintenance.
It's relatively easy and not really expensive to convert to an adjustable stem and flat bars if you don't like drop bars...

It does look like a bargs bike! the rear derailleur is one above the bottom of the barrel SRAM and the front is bottom of the barrel. I guess compared to my current bike which has LX gear, Hayes So1e hyd brakes weighing in a total of 14.5kg, then Brunswick is a sports car.

[singlespeedscott]

Do you mean like this?

That's it! thanks! My old Raceline has LX gear which I'm guessing is bottom of the barrel gear.

+1 for Cell Brunswick at 10 KG, SRAM parts = bargain bike. Plus it's versatile as you can fit a rack.
Cable Avid BB- 5 brakes are great, and agreed less power than hydraulic stuff but simpler and easier maintenance.
It's relatively easy and not really expensive to convert to an adjustable stem and flat bars if you don't like drop bars...

It does look like a bargs bike! the rear derailleur is one above the bottom of the barrel SRAM and the front is bottom of the barrel. I guess compared to my current bike which has LX gear, Hayes So1e hyd brakes weighing in a total of 14.5kg, then Brunswick is a sports car.

LX, back in the day, was the equivalent of 105. Hardly bottom of the barrel stuff.

[Duck!]

Yep, LX (and its modern successor SLX) is on the parallel MTB family, which goes XTR = Dura-ace, XT = Ultegra, (S)LX = 105, Deore = Tiagra, Alivio = Sora, with Acera, Altus & Tourney progressively lower down the ranks.

[Duck!]

Cable Avid BB- 5 brakes are great, and agreed less power than hydraulic stuff but simpler and easier maintenance.

Major misconception there. Cable brakes are more difficult to set up & require more maintenance than hydros. You have one static pad and one moving, so setting clearance without rub, yet having it close enough to give a firm brake feel is often a right pain, plus you get the periodic adjustments required to compensate for cable stretch and pad wear, plus reduction in efficiency due to gungy cables. Give me self adjusting, centre once & forget until new pads are required hydro simplicity any day.

[chachi]

So that means I'm going backwards with the Brunswick.

I hardly touched my Hayes hydros, one side of the pad didn't move so I had manually adjust, that's about it.

Might save and get the Revolt 0, it has SRAM X9's. Figured the bike should last me a while.

[daft1024]

Major misconception there. Cable brakes are more difficult to set up & require more maintenance than hydros. You have one static pad and one moving, so setting clearance without rub, yet having it close enough to give a firm brake feel is often a right pain, plus you get the periodic adjustments required to compensate for cable stretch and pad wear, plus reduction in efficiency due to gungy cables. Give me self adjusting, centre once & forget until new pads are required hydro simplicity any day.

I can attest to this! I spent ages on the weekend fiddling with a pair of BB7's trying to get a new wheelset running sweetly. Oh boy what I wouldn't have given for self adjustment then!

So that means I'm going backwards with the Brunswick.

I hardly touched my Hayes hydros, one side of the pad didn't move so I had manually adjust, that's about it.

Might save and get the Revolt 0, it has SRAM X9's. Figured the bike should last me a while.

But the Revolt 0 still has bb7's with an RRP of $2.4K. It's really bad that they can get away with it...

Have you thought about used? There is a guy on the Brisbane CX Facebook page that is selling a 2015 Focus Mares AX 2 for $1450. With TRP Hydros and 105 it it's well specced and kinda at the same level as the same old raceline? It just misses out on the hilltastic 11-36 cassette of the revolt though... I've got a 11-30 on mine and there have been a few occasions (admittedly in places where I should be on a MTB) where I would appreciate a lower gear.

[chachi]

But the Revolt 0 still has bb7's with an RRP of $2.4K. It's really bad that they can get away with it...

Have you thought about used? There is a guy on the Brisbane CX Facebook page that is selling a 2015 Focus Mares AX 2 for $1450. With TRP Hydros and 105 it it's well specced and kinda at the same level as the same old raceline? It just misses out on the hilltastic 11-36 cassette of the revolt though... I've got a 11-30 on mine and there have been a few occasions (admittedly in places where I should be on a MTB) where I would appreciate a lower gear.

Yeah not much down here in Melbs..currently, hard to find L as well...

I refuse to pay RRP on anything, I did find a Revolt 0 for $1600 but as I was researching more, I found the TCX SLR 1 2014 with hydro brakes! for $1899!! The new SLR 1 has crapper colours with mech brakes, for $2200 but get it for $2k. Thanks to the AUD.

[Bentnose]

I can attest to the issues with constantly having to adjust for pad wear on mechanical discs, I have CX75 discs and I seem to be adjusting every month regardless of conditions. I also find I'm only getting 3000km out of a set of pads, went for a long ride the other day, thought I had plenty of pad material, ran out of brakes front and rear, I thought this only happened during extreme MTB conditions, this was only on a bike path for about 3 hours and it barely rained. My rim brake pads last for years, like 15,000 km's a set.

[queequeg]

I have BB7s on my CX Commuter. I get around 3000km per set of pads, with the $7 Alligator ones performing just as well as the $30 Avid ones.
I find adjusting them is not really a hassle. You have to do that with rim brakes as well as the pass wear. The BB7 Is just a couple of clicks on each side, no tools needed.
I am sure there are better brakes out there now, but they have served me well since 2011 when there was no other practical options if you wanted discs on a drop bar bike.
if I strip the bike and redo the whole lot for an 11-sp conversion, I'll revisit the whole setup, but the BB7s are easy to maintain.

[Bentnose]

Adjusting them is easy, but the CX75's need 2 different size allen keys to adjust, not so trail friendly, I'd hate to use them in a muddy CX race. The Shimano pads cost me about $13 a pair. Might look out for Alligator pads, Torpedo 7 have them but not for my brakes.

[chachi]

Interesting take on expensive bikes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF4MIEkIBZs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It's kind of sad that with the AUD being so crap for a while, we're copping the brunt by getting dumbed down models for 2016 (and earlier) by reducing quality of components which also increases weight. Unfortunately it's getting harder to find earlier models.

Just out of interest I asked a Giant dealer for his opinion about the Cell (Brunswick), typically he didn't have too many good things to say about it.. haha.

I also noticed that you can get hybrid disc brakes which are cable/hydro, are these worth getting for something like the Brunswick?