Brake upgrade to Ultegra 6800 series calipers

[rpmspinman]

Hi All,

I have a 2012 Focus Cayo 2 with Shimano BR-M561 brakes and wish to upgrade the calipers to the Ultegra 6800 series as I heard the application of these brakes is far superior. The hood levers I have are definitely Ultegra but possibly 6700 series I think? Not 100% sure. Just wondering if the calipers are a direct swap for the 6800 series or if I am better off looking for a different caliper altogether?

What I am looking for is better brake modulation and easier application of the levers as I have weak hand grip due to arthritis. Currently I feel as if I have to really grip the levers to get the bike to pull up. I want to be able to apply the levers easily without it feeling as I am fighting against myself if you know what I mean. I also love descents so brake improvement is a must for confidence and wet weather.

Your advice is appreciated.

[Duck!]

If your brake levers are 6700 Ultegra, characterised by being 10-sp. & having the gear cables hidden under the bar tape, then 6800 calipers will be fine. If your levers are 6600 series or older, characterised by the gear cables exiting the sides of the shifter heads & remaining exposed, then the leverage of the calipers is not ideally matched & will result in less than optimal brake performance.

One thing to note: your existing R561 brakes are a "long-arm" caliper, designed to ensure clearance for larger tyres (and to ensure the pads will reach the rim & not the tyres when fitted to frames & forks alowing aforementioned clearance); the 6800 - and other "groupset" for that matter - brakes are a short-arm design, which may not have sufficient reach to work safely.

[rpmspinman]

If your brake levers are 6700 Ultegra, characterised by being 10-sp. & having the gear cables hidden under the bar tape, then 6800 calipers will be fine. If your levers are 6600 series or older, characterised by the gear cables exiting the sides of the shifter heads & remaining exposed, then the leverage of the calipers is not ideally matched & will result in less than optimal brake performance.

One thing to note: your existing R561 brakes are a "long-arm" caliper, designed to ensure clearance for larger tyres (and to ensure the pads will reach the rim & not the tyres when fitted to frames & forks alowing aforementioned clearance); the 6800 - and other "groupset" for that matter - brakes are a short-arm design, which may not have sufficient reach to work safely.

Thanks so much on this information. I'll investigate on what I have now. Sounds like I the 6800 series may not be compatible without having to completely change the groupset. Could I 'shim' the levers to help with my lever reach from the drops? Because currently the reach to the levers from the drops is difficult and makes it hard to grab in that position.

[Duck!]

If you have 6700 shifters then they can be shimmed to alter reach. Typically they're shipped with the 4-degree shims fitted so they're in the middle position, and you should have been supplied with the 8-degree option. If not, visit your friendly LBS. If you have older levers generally it's not possible to adjust reach.

[jpgibson]

at the same time do yourself a favour and ditch the Shimano pads.I've gone through a set of rims every 8000km due to these pads.Now on swiss stop alloy rim pads-wow!

[Drizt]

Cool stop salmon pads

[rpmspinman]

Thanks guys. I believe I have the 6700 series levers based on this photo of my bike. Are you able to confirm Duck!?


jpgibson - yes I will endeavour to upgrade the pads. I feel this is also a contributing factor to my braking ability or lack there of. Swisstops are sooooo dam expensive though, but I guess, what price on braking power and avoiding an accident?

Drizt - Never heard of those pads. I'll look into them.

[Duck!]

Yes, they're 6700 levers, and currently have no adjustment shims fitted.

[Duck!]

at the same time do yourself a favour and ditch the Shimano pads.I've gone through a set of rims every 8000km due to these pads. Now on swiss stop alloy rim pads-wow!

Do you not clean the grit out of your pads? That's unusually rapid rim wear.

[rpmspinman]

Yes, they're 6700 levers, and currently have no adjustment shims fitted.

Thanks for the confirmation. What I might try is getting the levers shimmed and changing the pads to something better and seeing how that goes. If there is no marked improvement I will look into what other options there are in improving the brake feel.

[jpgibson]

at the same time do yourself a favour and ditch the Shimano pads.I've gone through a set of rims every 8000km due to these pads. Now on swiss stop alloy rim pads-wow!

Do you not clean the grit out of your pads? That's unusually rapid rim wear.

no, too lazy. BUT just looking at the 'cuttng paste' you see with a bit of rain... no wonder they dont last long. maybe im hard on brakes too. lots of stopping on my commute. Also the Shimano pads are very hard. the swiss stops cost about $40 for the set versus 20 for fhe shimanos. They feel heaps better. when i bought them , i couldnt find any kool stops which were a lot cheaper.
lesson learnt, clean my pads. interestingly, my new wheels ( a downgrade from rs80's to 105/open pro) are awesome!

[rpmspinman]

So choosing brake pads, what should I go for?

Swisstop Flash, Flash Evo or Race? Or is there another brand you guys reckon will pull up as good for cheaper? Do I go for pad only or pad and holders?

I have alloy brake surface. Again, downhills are my forte so I need something that will give me confidence in all conditions.

[Duck!]

Also check the cables are running smoothly & not corroded. I don't normally consider Teflon/PTFE-coated cables necessary for braking, but with arthritic hands you need every bit of friction reduction you can get, so replace your inners with these babies.

Also ensure the pads are toed correctly; the forward tips of the pads should sit about 1mm closer to the rim than the rear. This will give a softer initial application, but a much more progressive increase in power as you squeeze harder & bring the pads into full contact with the rims.

[GTPilot]

Also check the cables are running smoothly & not corroded. I don't normally consider Teflon/PTFE-coated cables necessary for braking, but with arthritic hands you need every bit of friction reduction you can get, so replace your inners with these babies.

Also ensure the pads are toed correctly; the forward tips of the pads should sit about 1mm closer to the rim than the rear. This will give a softer initial application, but a much more progressive increase in power as you squeeze harder & bring the pads into full contact with the rims.

In winter I angle them the other way, toe in towards the rear (leading edge), I find it gives me better braking in the wet as the leading edge of the pad then has kind of a squeegee effect.

[Duck!]

Toe-out like that does increase the probability of brake shudder, which is particularly undesirable on the front.

[rpmspinman]

Ah ok, thanks for that guys. I'll endeavour to ensure the pads are toed properly for better modulation.

Im thinking of going the swiss stop green pads. Only because I reckon the blue ones will 'catch' a bit too much and feel possibly twitchy on application of the brake lever. The greens seem to be slightly less bitey on application but still offer excellent braking performance.

Are the the swiss stop greens worth going for?

[fat and old]

Yes.

Wore a set of Dura ace whatever they are out in 6 weeks from new. Swapped for SS green on Jasonc's advice. Night and day. 85kg fattie commuting all weather on bike tracks, riding road w/e and nights and a bit of off road. Wet weather braking is the biggest diff.

I like 'em.

oh...pads only. Fit straight into the holders so why spend?

[rpmspinman]

Yes.

Wore a set of Dura ace whatever they are out in 6 weeks from new. Swapped for SS green on Jasonc's advice. Night and day. 85kg fattie commuting all weather on bike tracks, riding road w/e and nights and a bit of off road. Wet weather braking is the biggest diff.

I like 'em.

oh...pads only. Fit straight into the holders so why spend?

Legend. Thanks for the advice. Im gonna get the greens and the levers shimmed. I reckon this will make the biggest difference before going the whole hog and upgrading calipers etc.

[zero]

Yes.

Wore a set of Dura ace whatever they are out in 6 weeks from new. Swapped for SS green on Jasonc's advice. Night and day. 85kg fattie commuting all weather on bike tracks, riding road w/e and nights and a bit of off road. Wet weather braking is the biggest diff.

I like 'em.

oh...pads only. Fit straight into the holders so why spend?

Legend. Thanks for the advice. Im gonna get the greens and the levers shimmed. I reckon this will make the biggest difference before going the whole hog and upgrading calipers etc.

Levers on my road bike are perfectly placed for my hands from the drops, and I never need more than 2 fingers - and I never felt there was a lack of power on that bike even when I'd just stepped off my mountain bike. Think pads and shims will get you pretty close to what you want.

[rpmspinman]

Levers on my road bike are perfectly placed for my hands from the drops, and I never need more than 2 fingers - and I never felt there was a lack of power on that bike even when I'd just stepped off my mountain bike. Think pads and shims will get you pretty close to what you want.

Thanks mate, thats exactly what im hoping for.

[ValleyForge]

Yes.

Wore a set of Dura ace whatever they are out in 6 weeks from new. Swapped for SS green on Jasonc's advice. Night and day. 85kg fattie commuting all weather on bike tracks, riding road w/e and nights and a bit of off road. Wet weather braking is the biggest diff.

I like 'em.

oh...pads only. Fit straight into the holders so why spend?

Legend. Thanks for the advice. Im gonna get the greens and the levers shimmed. I reckon this will make the biggest difference before going the whole hog and upgrading calipers etc.

I've found Shimano pads equivalent to using Iced Vo-Vos. Always been a big fan of KoolStops Salmons for alloys. I have found though the SwissStops and Campagnolo pads are better on carbon - no dust and more grip.

[rpmspinman]

I've found Shimano pads equivalent to using Iced Vo-Vos. Always been a big fan of KoolStops Salmons for alloys. I have found though the SwissStops and Campagnolo pads are better on carbon - no dust and more grip.

That's interesting. I appreciate the tip

[Storm Boy]

Another happy user of Kool Stop Salmons here. I've heard good things about the Swiss stops too, would like to give them a go one day.

SB

[ball bearing]

Another happy user of Kool Stop Salmons here. I've heard good things about the Swiss stops too, would like to give them a go one day.

SB

I just bought a bunch of Kool Stops - Wiggle have them on sale.

[rpmspinman]

I've got a $50 gift voucher to use for c r c so I'll need to shop from there and I have only seen the Swiss stops not the Kool stops.