Powertap P1 Power Meter

Rex
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Powertap P1 Power Meter

Postby Rex » Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:25 am

Thought I would start a dedicated thread on the Powertap P1 PM which is the new pedal-based power meter.
To bring everyone up to speed, an excellent review is here.

With it's incredible ease of installation, swapping and seeming reliability and accuracy - it has gone straight to the top of my list for my first power meter purchase.
I am however closely interested in it's durability with regards to road clearance and if the additional weight is noticeable. Unlikely, but interested in subjective opinions.

With a retail $US1299 price, I'm hoping for a very competitive price once Australian stores start stocking them, as importing via Wiggle works out to be about $1700 and the Garmin Vectors can be found new for $1500 locally.

Thoughts?

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Alex Simmons/RST
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Re: Powertap P1 Power Meter

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:50 am

They looks promising. Time will tell of course. Not having pods and no need for special tools to install is a big improvement over the Vectors.

Power meter reliability, service and support is measured over years of usage, so always hard with new products to properly assess such things. At least with such an established long term player in power measurement it's a good start.

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Re: Powertap P1 Power Meter

Postby jasonc » Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:44 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:They looks promising. Time will tell of course. Not having pods and no need for special tools to install is a big improvement over the Vectors.

Power meter reliability, service and support is measured over years of usage, so always hard with new products to properly assess such things. At least with such an established long term player in power measurement it's a good start.
so with years of usage being a measurement, being locked in to proprietary cleats is a big issue. yes they will work with keo compatible cleat but dcrainmaker stated there were some issues with them

and since when is a torque wrench a special tool?

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Re: Powertap P1 Power Meter

Postby Rex » Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:21 pm

jasonc wrote: so with years of usage being a measurement, being locked in to proprietary cleats is a big issue. yes they will work with keo compatible cleat but dcrainmaker stated there were some issues with them
Reply #92 in the comments of the review it's clarified the cleats are actually Xpedo Thrust SL cleats.
Not quite proprietary, but not easy to get our hands on.
I expect this will be less of an issue in time.

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Re: Powertap P1 Power Meter

Postby jasonc » Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:30 pm

just checked 8 bike web stores. none sold them.

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Re: Powertap P1 Power Meter

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:57 pm

jasonc wrote:
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:They looks promising. Time will tell of course. Not having pods and no need for special tools to install is a big improvement over the Vectors.

Power meter reliability, service and support is measured over years of usage, so always hard with new products to properly assess such things. At least with such an established long term player in power measurement it's a good start.
so with years of usage being a measurement, being locked in to proprietary cleats is a big issue. yes they will work with keo compatible cleat but dcrainmaker stated there were some issues with them

and since when is a torque wrench a special tool?
It is for many who just want to fit some pedals. You also need the special crow foot adapter which is not supplied (and can itself be hard to get), and to take special care not to damage the fragile pods in the process (which by all accounts is almost inevitable if you do it often enough), then redo the calibration process. Leaving the pedals on and swapping the crank set over would be easier which sort of defeats the point. May as well have a crank based meter.

Whatever pedal you choose you are locked into using those pedal's cleats. I looked online and could buy Xpedo cleats direct from Xpedo. I'm sure Powertap will also sell them and supply distributors with plenty of cleats for shops to stock. This is not a Johnny come lately power meter company.

One of the selling points of pedal based meters is portability and convenience when changing bikes, or when travelling. With these you just put them on like any regular pedal, no need for torque wrench and crows foot, and no pods to damage.

The battery looks to be a far more robust and easier solution as well.

But as always, we need to see how they perform out in the wild.

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Re: Powertap P1 Power Meter

Postby vosadrian » Wed Aug 05, 2015 3:35 pm

I recently got vectors. A friend of mine had purchased a fixed torque setting wrench specifically for installing vectors that I borrowed. I think he paid <$50. I had never installed vectors and I had them working perfectly in about 15 minutes (longest time was working out how many washers to use which is done once per bike). The torque wrench was really no issue. I can see that the pods could become worn out and break if reinstalled often. I believe I could change them to another bike pretty quick using this tool (if I was in a rush maybe 5 minutes??). From my observation, the act of removing the pods that is required to install them initiates a recal when you ride it the first time that is done automatically when you pedal >80RPM. Nothing special I had to do... they started showing power after about a minute of riding the first time.

I'm no fan boy... but I just can't see that fitting vectors adds any more than 5 minutes to fitting a set of pedals if you have done it before and know how many washers to use and have the right torque wrench. I like the look of the new P1s as well, but I don't know why they did not use a more common cleat? I wish the Vectors were available in SPD-SL cleats, but at least the KEOS are easy to get. I can see why DC wants the easiest installation option as he is always changing the PM he uses, but I don't see the installation as an issue for most people who install only a few times a year if that.

EDIT: Oh... mine came with the crow foot adapter that I never used.

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Re: Powertap P1 Power Meter

Postby toolonglegs » Wed Aug 05, 2015 4:46 pm

€1300 here... or only €750 for the C1. As my wife has nearly permanently taken charge of my powertap wheel for her zwift action I must say I am tempted.

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Re: Powertap P1 Power Meter

Postby Rex » Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:29 pm

Powertap briefly discuss the cleats on twitter today :
The decision to go with a proprietary cleat was not one we made lightly, but it did give us a lot more freedom in terms of supply chain management and customization.
Source:
https://twitter.com/PowerTap/status/628694583409414144" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://twitter.com/PowerTap/status/628694662744707072" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Powertap P1 Power Meter

Postby JdM » Thu Aug 06, 2015 8:23 am

Rex wrote:With a retail $US1299 price, I'm hoping for a very competitive price once Australian stores start stocking them, as importing via Wiggle works out to be about $1700 and the Garmin Vectors can be found new for $1500 locally.
They are actually already up on Wiggle (not in stock though): http://www.this link is broken.au/powertap-p1-pe ... meter-set/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AU$1,386.08 at time of posting this.

Being a unit that is dual band (ANT+ and BLE) has gotten my attention as I have a BLE head unit.

Awesome review by DCR... I am a little hesitant on the cleat issue though. What if you have another bike without the P1 pedals on it? Another pair of shoes for that bike too? :x EDIT: Some google-ing just answered this question. They are using these cleats as a platform I gather: http://road.cc/content/review/29652-xpe ... 8ct-pedals" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Powertap P1 Power Meter

Postby slian » Thu Aug 06, 2015 8:48 am

Are Powertap products widely distributed locally as google search seems to only turn up Wiggle?

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Re: Powertap P1 Power Meter

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:23 am

slian wrote:Are Powertap products widely distributed locally as google search seems to only turn up Wiggle?
Monza is the Australian distributor for Powertap products, and like other power meters sold via similar distro/shop channels, they are available through most bike shops on order.

I don't know if/when Monza will have stocks for regular Aussie distribution. A bit later this month I'm giving a talk (well mostly answering questions) on training with power and I think the Monza Powertap rep will be there so it will be a chance to get an update on local availability.

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Re: Powertap P1 Power Meter

Postby Rex » Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:42 am

JdM wrote: They are actually already up on Wiggle (not in stock though): http://www.this link is broken.au/powertap-p1-pe ... meter-set/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AU$1,386.08 at time of posting this.
I'm seeing AU$1,496.34 as a Gold member
In any case, by the time you add customs/duties etc it puts it beyond the $1500 barrier.

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Re: Powertap P1 Power Meter

Postby JdM » Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:15 am

Rex wrote:I'm seeing AU$1,496.34 as a Gold member
In any case, by the time you add customs/duties etc it puts it beyond the $1500 barrier.
Clearly I burn waaaaay too much $$$ on Wiggle :lol: :oops: I must have a Platinum discount?

Good point on customs etc, didn't think of that.
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Re: Powertap P1 Power Meter

Postby Bluejay87 » Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:36 pm

Didn't realize there was a thread on these pedals. I'm seiously considering them.

And thanks to the people that mentioned the platinum discount on wiggle. I was previously browsing wiggle without being logged in and they were showing up as 1575 which was roughly the same as bikebug. But now they are showing up as $1386 which is a significant discount....I didn't realize there was customs duties etc though....where can you calculate this cost? In any case they seem out of stock on Wiggle....

Review seems positive and it's with a reputable company so hopefully there shouldn't be too many issues....should be more reliable than the watteam powerbeat which I was also considering but which is only going to be shipping in November in the US and who knows when in Australia.

Like others, I was considering the Vectors. While I take note that people in this thread are saying they aren't all that difficult to install, they are clearly some level more difficult than the powertap. Powertap is also cheaper on wiggle so I'll probably be going with them. I'll have to change my shoes as currently using spd's...that's kind of annoying as I liked the ability to walk around in my spd's.

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Re: Powertap P1 Power Meter

Postby Rex » Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:49 pm

Yeah I saw BikeBug has them for $1600 right now.
Considering they're in stock, and has local support should you have a need to make a warranty claim etc thats the way I'd be going.

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Re: Powertap P1 Power Meter

Postby Bluejay87 » Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:48 pm

Local support definitely is helpful, but would powertap itself have local support if you bought through wiggle?

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Re: Powertap P1 Power Meter

Postby GeoffInBrisbane » Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:39 pm

I am happy with my Vectors, but I have to say, if I was buying tomorrow, I'd be going for the Powertap pedals. Installing Vectors is not hard, but you can't get any easier than the installation for the P1s.
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Re: Powertap P1 Power Meter

Postby GeoffInBrisbane » Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:41 pm

jasonc wrote:and since when is a torque wrench a special tool?
Did you have a 38nm torque wrench already, or did you buy it when you bought the pedals? If you bought it especially for the pedals, then it's a special tool. :lol:
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Re: Powertap P1 Power Meter

Postby slian » Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:43 pm

The price put it in between the 2 other powermeters I'm considering, Garmin Vectors and Pioneer.

I'd say it definitely knocked Garmin out of the park unless you're after Garmin proprietary metrics in conjunction with a Garmin head unit.

Compared to the Pioneer, I think it's down to price & low weight (Pioneer) vs ease of transferability/installation & somewhat better connectivity?

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Re: Powertap P1 Power Meter

Postby jasonc » Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:44 pm

GeoffInBrisbane wrote:
jasonc wrote:and since when is a torque wrench a special tool?
Did you have a 38nm torque wrench already, or did you buy it when you bought the pedals?
who said I have vectors?
I can't afford a power meter
I've bought lots of special tools for the bike. If I was going to spend ~$1500 for pedals, a $50 tool wouldn't really hurt that much

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Re: Powertap P1 Power Meter

Postby Bluejay87 » Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:55 pm

How much do pioneers go for?

Jasonc, I thought you had a powermeter? I remember watching a video of you up a hill with power metrics?

Don't the vectors need two tools, crow foot adapter and torque wrench??

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Re: Powertap P1 Power Meter

Postby jasonc » Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:11 pm

Bluejay87 wrote:How much do pioneers go for?

Jasonc, I thought you had a powermeter? I remember watching a video of you up a hill with power metrics?

Don't the vectors need two tools, crow foot adapter and torque wrench??
they'd be pretend numbers. i can't pull the tab off a ginger beer

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Re: Powertap P1 Power Meter

Postby GeoffInBrisbane » Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:28 pm

Bluejay87 wrote:How much do pioneers go for?

Jasonc, I thought you had a powermeter? I remember watching a video of you up a hill with power metrics?

Don't the vectors need two tools, crow foot adapter and torque wrench??
If you buy the Garmin torque wrench, it comes with the crows foot adaptor.
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Re: Powertap P1 Power Meter

Postby JdM » Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:58 pm

Rex wrote:Yeah I saw BikeBug has them for $1600 right now.
Considering they're in stock, and has local support should you have a need to make a warranty claim etc thats the way I'd be going.
Oh boom. My LBS too. They have amazing service (both online and in-store), definitely worth spending that little bit more to get that from them. I'm almost sold.

Btw - these are the cleats that are compatible with them: http://xpedo.com/products/pedals/parts/ ... et-6%C2%B0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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